10 replies to this topic

[walter hornby]

Well i shot my first IDPA league night a couple of weeks ago. one of the things that was being done was on one stage people were deliberately taking 3 rounds on targets so that they could run their gun to slide lock on the barricade and do a reload while transiting across the barricade. Now i know there is a rule about dumping runs down range when not engaging a target but to me this seem to not be within the rules for IDPA. anyone care to enlighten me?

[ajg308]

Well i shot my first IDPA league night a couple of weeks ago. one of the things that was being done was on one stage people were deliberately taking 3 rounds on targets so that they could run their gun to slide lock on the barricade and do a reload while transiting across the barricade. Now i know there is a rule about dumping runs down range when not engaging a target but to me this seem to not be within the rules for IDPA. anyone care to enlighten me?

Ask them why they were shooting three per target. If they are dumb enough to answer they are dumping, they get an FTDR. If they are coy, then you can warn them you think they are round dumping and you will be watching. These answers assume you are the SO, if you are not the SO you can still bring it up to them and the SO. If they continune to ignore you, get the MD.

[Chills1994]

First off, where was this at?

Secondly, was it a for real IDPA match...or an IDPA style match?

Third, the IDPA venacular for that is "round dumping".

Fourth, that has been covered here before many times.

Fifth, these kinda IDPA rules threads don't last for very long. There is much gnashing of teeth. And a mod steps in and closes the thread.

Sixth, I will be back in second with a few forum links.

[Chills1994]

Here try this link from the search results:

http://www.brianenos.....lite=+dumping

That'll get ya going.

One of those two threads was started by me way back in December 2005. So 4 years already. Not much has changed in IDPA since then.

I expect that sometime here in this thread somebody will come along and say, "If I am SO'ing, I am NOT a mind reader, so I will NEVER EVER issue an FTDR for round dumping."

My theory on things is if you're desigining stages or you're MD'ing tweak the stages so that a shooter inflicts himself with his own time penalties if he round dumps.

A lot less controversy there if he screws himself up on a stage when round dumping vs. having an SO or MD slap that 20 second FTDR penalty on him.

[twodownzero]

I would probably issue the penalty, unless I thought the shooter was ignorant of the rules. Stuff like that is why the FTDR exists.

[Jim Watson]

Without resuming the debate between the use of FTDR against "round dumping" versus the definition of Vickers Count, I will only say that from the position of " i shot my first IDPA league night a couple of weeks ago" it might be best for the OP to shoot his own game and not criticize others'.

If I were the SO or MD and he came to me complaining about other shooters, as per post #2, I would brush him off and continue to run things as I saw fit.

Maybe after he has shot a while and gotten his SO card, he can contribute something to overall match operations.

Edited by Jim Watson, 19 January 2010 - 08:24 AM.

[Chris Christian]

"Round dumping" during a Vickers Count COF is almost impossible to accurately call and becomes a subjective judgement on the part of the SO. I've only called it once during the two matches per month I SO, and that was when a shooter cranked five rounds into a ten yard target that was the last target engaged before a mandatory RWR/Tac Reload. That put him to slide lock, he made a slide lock reload, and he was grinning about it. He realized the folly of his tactic when he did the math and figured he could have made the RWR in under 20 seconds. He hasn't done it since. If a shooter fires three rounds at a two round paper target it is impossible, IMHO, to to call it, even if all three hits are 0s. If one hit is a 1, there's no way it can be called since the shooter is specifically allowed to fire extra rounds to improve his down point score. Can that be gamed? Sure... just make sure one of the shots is a 1, and nothing can be said. But, "round dumping" is not an easy call.
Chris Christian

[Xfactor]

"Round dumping" during a Vickers Count COF is almost impossible to accurately call and becomes a subjective judgement on the part of the SO. I've only called it once during the two matches per month I SO, and that was when a shooter cranked five rounds into a ten yard target that was the last target engaged before a mandatory RWR/Tac Reload. That put him to slide lock, he made a slide lock reload, and he was grinning about it. He realized the folly of his tactic when he did the math and figured he could have made the RWR in under 20 seconds. He hasn't done it since. If a shooter fires three rounds at a two round paper target it is impossible, IMHO, to to call it, even if all three hits are 0s. If one hit is a 1, there's no way it can be called since the shooter is specifically allowed to fire extra rounds to improve his down point score. Can that be gamed? Sure... just make sure one of the shots is a 1, and nothing can be said. But, "round dumping" is not an easy call.
Chris Christian

Well said, Chris.

[JorDanO]

At Nationals this last year I was on a squad with several well known Masters who have been a part of IDPA since the early days. Let's just say there were a lot of slide lock reloads and a lot of targets with 3 zero's.

[sirveyr]

At Nationals this last year I was on a squad with several well known Masters who have been a part of IDPA since the early days. Let's just say there were a lot of slide lock reloads and a lot of targets with 3 zero's.

Hey, I thought it looked like a -1 when I broke the shot. Did you see my sights Mr. SO?

My advice to the OP is to shoot his game, like Jim said.

Edited by sirveyr, 19 January 2010 - 09:50 AM.

[Duane Thomas]

And already this topic is descending into sarcasm and conflict.

Closed.