100 replies to this topic

[Smo11]

I watch every shooter when I can if it's a major match I'll watch the guys in my division really good to see what me or them would do different and change my stage breakdown if I think it will help if it's a local match our squad usually watches to help out the newer guys

[sroe3]

I watch the better shooters on my squad because they see opportunities that I often miss. I have to keep my limitations in mind and avoid attempting something above my ability.

[The Contender]

Always. You never know what you'll pickup from someone you haven't shot with before.

[Dr Mitch]

Every once in a while, someone shoots a stage in a way that nobody thought of beforehand, and beats everyone else by a long shot. That is why it's good to watch everyone shoot, and to listen to stories about the feats of other shooters. My brother was shooting with a guy recently who, instead of crouching on a stage with obstacles that seemed to mandate it (everyone else crouched uncomfortably and shot slowly), just dove onto his side and engaged the targets laying sideways. He beat everyone by ten seconds or more, all hits were alphas.

[West Texas Granny]

Watch all the time. One thing I've noticed with a few is they keep their hand right next to their weapon as if they were expecting it to drop out of their holster. ( when walking around) Was wondering if others have noticed the same.


I've also noticed only one person wearing what could be called cleats during a match. Does everyone just wear tennis shoes or are their specific shoe types that others wear.

Edited by West Texas Granny, 28 February 2012 - 08:01 AM.

[Schuster]

I work in the golf industry and I used to have the same concept of not watching others swing (now I don't play as much so it doesn't matter). Sometimes you will see tendencies that you just should not copy and by watching them sometimes you will. In shooting though you should be watching the course of fire and stage breakdown and not really their speed or draw.

[Olivers_AR]

Yes because I might learn or see something. I have trying to stick to the plan even if I get more info/data, but it never hurts to watch and learn.

It however can be confusing to watch open or limited if your shooting L10, production, single stack, etc.

[kjolly]

Watching the others just makes me see how much I have to learn. It's best to focus on what I'm planning.

[RammerJammer]

I watch waaay more than I plan but I am still extremely new. I will focus on footwork, or distance from a barricade and try to notice different choices by different skill levels and percentages trying to figure out what is most common, what seems to be frustrating shooters while they shoot and after they have shot. I am a student.

[Poppa Bear]

One thing I have learned from watching others is to not get to locked into a plan, or a division. I have on many occasions decided that I can move into a position and take 8 targets without moving. Because I shoot limited I have more than enough bullets. Then I watch a SS or Prod shooter clean my clock because they shoot smaller controlled blocks as they move down the course. They seemed to be going slower than me but the time I waste stopping in position, transitioning across all the targets, and then taking off again is longer than they needed to move past the same targets in a controlled manner and then taking off towards the next array. So now I put more emphasis on looking for ways to make a controlled steady run taking targets as they come rather than a quick run with lots of starts and stops where I can engage whole arrays. I also am starting to realize that even if I have 20 rounds available it is not wise making plans to engage large blocks of targets just because I can. Instead I should plan as if I was shooting SS without all the reloads.

[pjb45]

Shooting Single Stack has improved my stage breakdown strategy. But so has shooting with a lot of GMs.

I have learned a lot from them. In the back of Mike Seeklander's book, there is a process flow diagram that does a pretty good job of what every GM I have ever seen does on a stage.

In a quick summary, the determine the number of targets from the stage briefing, recon the stage and count the number of targets and confirm that number with the stage briefing. Then they look at the number of targets in each shooting position, then for opportunities to gain advantage (single stack mentality ) that might eliminate a reload, then commit their strategy to their mental game.

[Corey]

I like shooting with better shooters and talking stage plans with them during the walk throughs. Pros/cons to doing different ways. I have no problem watching other shooters, especially if there is a tough shot or an activated target that I want to see the timing on. When I am on deck or maybe in the hole, I'll quit watching, reburn my stage plan a few times, grab something to drink, get grip stuff on my hands and get ready to go.

[nick romero]

I watch as many shooters I can and also accept any pointers people offer me, I did learn that you can't try things during the match though. Take what people teach you and what you see and try them during practice. If you try during match it just throws you off

[LRRP]

I do watch all the shooters I can for all the reasons mentioned above. I also take pointers when they are given. I'm always trying to learn. However, I have found that you have to listen and watch....meaning someone may talk a good talk but shoot poorly or visa versa. So I just try to keep open to new stuff and then decide what I want to use and what I want to throw away. To not watch or listen is to not learn, when your "done learning" your done growing as a shooter. I don't want that to happen to me.

[Recoil45]

I do on complex stages but not usually on the simple ones. And I only watch on the complex ones until I have my plan worked out. Once I do, I stop watching so I am not tempted to make any last minute changes.

[boomfab]

I don't watch other shooters in my squad.

[Nimitz]

As one other mentioned .... Never before I shoot since I'm visualizing or working my stage plan. The one exception is if I happen to be on the squad of our local master production shooter who wins every month. I will then try to position myself in the shooting order to shoot before him so that I can watch him on each stage. Most of our stages are complicated field courses which require plenty of study nd visualization prior to shooting and require max focus from me ... Chit chatting, kidding around and watching others is reserved only for after I shoot each stage ...

[sti38super]

I watch every shooter I can in the squads I shoot on. We always rotate the shooting order so everyone only goes first once in a match. Being a GM everyone is always asking me how I would shoot that stage so I try and give good sound advice. I still learn from watching others shoot.

[redial]

"You can observe a lot by watching." - Yogi Berra

I watch when I'm not taping, scoring, policing brass, loading mags or creating a nuisance.

Mark

[chaosshooter00]

Having been injured and unable to shoot since March, I have not missed a local match even though the range is seventy miles away. I volunteer to be the designated R.O. for my squad and get the opportunity to watch all of the shooters from a different perspective. A lot of the responses on this topic say, "I don't watch the guys that are worse than me, I only watch equal or above." Here's my two cents: Old guys waste a lot less movement than young fidgety guys, because they don't have speed. Young shooters will game the snot out of a stage, move and shoot it like nobody's business, then fold like origami on a stand and shoot classifier. If you don't watch every shooter that steps to the line at one point or another, I think you are doing yourself a huge disservice and possibly the person you could be helping by critiquing their run. I am fortunate enough to run with a squad that watches out for each other and are helpful as all get out. They range from "D" shooters to "Masters" and all divisions. I have been fortunate enough to see a "D" class shooter burn one down like a "Master" and I have seen a "Master" grenade one like a "D" shooter, never did the thought cross my mind not to learn something from everyone. Not everyone is chasing the gold ring, some of us just want to have fun and be the best we can. Sorry for the rant, I need to go shooting!

[szhttm]

I still consider myself relatively new to the sport. I have been doing it for 1.5 years now.

During any of my local matches, I look to shoot first in the squad so that I can then watch all the other shooters and compare how they run the stage to what I did. I have learned quite a bit doing this and learned to read stages in different ways.




Good Luck And Be Safe!!!

[Piney]

I'll watch 1-2 shoot before me. I watch for their overall treatment of the stage. After that I don't watch before I myself shoot . I'll visit a bit and tape. I try to review a stage up front, decide how best to run it for my abilities, then stick to the plan. It becomes a focus issue--concentrate on my pattern and movements. I also try not to listen to the cadence of others' shots.

Too many times I hear people saying, after watching another shooter, Oh, I'm going to try that instead.... or I am going to shoot faster than that....then fumble through their turn, looking hesitant and confused.

Now- after I shoot, I'll watch my squad-mates shoot with an eye for picking up a better move, better plan etc.

[JimmyZip]

I tend to really take my walk through seriously. Even at locals, I try and get my plan pretty solid in that first five, then I tape up some strips on my legs for target pasting, insure my mags are full, and try and keep busy with helping while I run MY plan through my head. This seems to make me more solid as I shoot a stage. I take careful mental notes as I tape the stage or score (I prefer to score for this reason) as to which targets seem to be drawing shooters out of the A-zone. As I tape or score, I try and observe why the stage is pushing shooters one way or another.

[nmcferro]

I like to watch everyone, as I think that no matter what level a shooter is at, each and everyone has something to offer. I can learn from the GM what to do.The C and D shooters like me provide me an opportunity to learn from their mistakes. Nothing wrong with mistakes, it is how we learn as long as we press on!

[Jesse Tischauser]

Absolutely not! Watching other shooters is a good thing for me personally. A good run is contagious and seeing someone crash and burn is a confidence booster. The only negative is if youre on deck or in the hole and you watch the guy ahead of you do something within his stage plan that was obviously better than the stage plan you are about to do. It's too late to change and now your going to be thinking you need to shoot faster to catch up to his better stage plan.

Edited by Jesse Tischauser, 24 November 2012 - 09:48 AM.