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Do you watch other shooters in your squad?


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#26 Jadeslade

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Posted 29 November 2009 - 07:30 PM

Depends on the situation. I like to watch all I can. It's the fun of shooting.
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#27 kevin c

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Posted 29 November 2009 - 07:36 PM

I watch, since I shoot with friends and part of shooting is social. Cheering on your buds or commiserating with them when necessary is part of the experience for me.

I try to be clear in my own mind, as J1b pointed out, what I will do on the stage is my own thing, not to be influenced by others' strategy/technique/whatever. I do confess to watching the technique of more skilled shooters, not for use in the stage, but for comparison with my own technique, to see what I might try in training that might work for me. I will also try to observe the mechanics of the stage that don't have anything to do with the shooter him/herself - the timing of a swinger or the time it takes to activate a target, for instance.

It helps that I am just about the only Production shooter in my squad of mostly intermediate and advanced Open and Limited shooters - Just the capacity and PF differences make it a hugely different game for me.

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#28 pigfixer

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Posted 29 November 2009 - 07:50 PM

I haven't been shooting for a long time so I like to look at the stage and get a plan, but I do watch others to see if they do it similarly to my plan. I find a lot of the time I can cut some time off my original plan by doing something another shooter did that I didn't think about or remember form my previous shooting experience.

#29 sierra77mk

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Posted 29 November 2009 - 10:46 PM

I only watch other shooters who are my same height and wear the same colored lenses as me because we see it the same way.... kidding.

It is always interesting when an entire squad shoots a stage the same way then another squad sees things differently and kick your squad's butt.

So like others say get your plan on the walk thru and watch what others do to see if it is the same as you.
My worst stages are ones where I am #1 or #2, I am rushed and I don't have a plan and I have not seen someone else shoot it.
Forgotten or hidden targets [usually steel] are my main screw up. Seeing someone else engage or not engage helps this.

A stage description may read one way but be interpreted another way and seeing someone else do it right or wrong has definitely changed my plan of approach.

Better than watching others on your squad or on other squads is getting to a match early to help set up.
When first starting out I would pick up things just listening and observing the stage designers as they set things up.
I learned the intent of a stage. I learned where to find advantages.
And I know where the targets are because I put them there.
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#30 wileecoyote37

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 11:50 AM

Local matchs shooting is a social event. I always watch and visit with the other shooters. I'm an RO about half the time and must watch. At Nationals I RO'd the 1st half and shot the second half. When I started shooting, it took me all day to slow down enough to shoot my game.

#31 Duane Thomas

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 12:33 PM

It's important to realize, as you watch other shooters, that you will never feel as fast as the other guy looks - even when you're both shooting at the same speed. If you try to be as fast as the other guy looked, there is a very real tendency to shoot beyond your abilities, and crash and burn. Just shoot at your own natural speed, you'll probably be as fast as the other guy....and MUCH more accurate that you would have been otherwise.
Pride and fear are emotions, which hope for an outcome. Outcomes take your attention from the present, where the shooting happens, to the future. It is totally impossible to do anything in the future, because it hasn't happened yet. The key to shooting your best is to be present as the witness of the shooting. Do not judge, do not give yourself anything to live up to. We can only shoot as well as we have trained ourselves to shoot. To try to shoot only induces stress. Be content with your current ability. And accumulate practice to improve that ability. Consolidate, build strength where you feel weakness. We cannot raise our ability until we accept our current limitations. Practice dissolves limitations. Matches simply define where the current limits exist. The game of shooting is all about redefining our limits.
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#32 Field

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 12:47 PM

sometimes it seems like watching others hurts more than it helps
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#33 gmantwo

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 05:45 PM

I watch every shooter I can. Above my class, below my class and everywhere in between. I've seen shooters way above me that tried something I was thinking about that didn't work at all, and I've seen shooters below me have a great run on a stage and put together the perfect line. Information, knowledge, is power, the lack of information or knowledge leads to hesitation, at least in myself. I don't pay so much attention on a classifier or short course, but the longer, more involved the course is, the more people I would like to watch before it's my time in the box.

Edited by gmantwo, 30 November 2009 - 05:46 PM.

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#34 CHA-LEE

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 01:43 PM

I feel that if you are not watching other shooters you are selling yourself short. Regardless of Division or Classification every shooter has an opportunity to do incredible things during their stage run. I am not talking about a whole run either. Maybe a shooter moved very well into a single shooting position but tanked the rest of the stage. You should be taking away from that experience the “Good” stuff to add that positive reinforcement or idea to your run. Way too many people focus on the negative while watching others shoot. I don’t want to focus on a shooter struggling to clear a Texas Star. I want to focus on the other aspects of his/her run that was successful.

You have to detach what you observe from what your intentions are for your stage run. Your stage plan is just that, YOURS. So what if you seen a shooter burn down a stage, tank it or have a completely different plan for the stage. That was their plan/run, not yours.

Put it into context to something you observer in every day life. When you are driving home from work and watch someone run a red light, is observing that action going to make you any more or less likely to do the same thing by simply observing it? No. You still have to make the choice yourself on whether that is something you want to do or not. Watching other shooters run through a stage should be no different. Their actions, no matter how different they may be from your expectations, still require you to make a choice on what to do with the information.

I always watch shooters before and after me. I also make a conscious decision on how to disposition what I have observed. When its my turn to shoot I always know that the current stage performance is going to be mine regardless of what happened before or after my run. So what does it really matter what I had previously observed other shooters do? All I can do is execute on my stage plan to the best of my ability. Everything else does not matter.

Edited by CHA-LEE, 01 December 2009 - 01:44 PM.

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#35 little_kahuna

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 02:00 PM

"Awareness: Observation without thought or judgement"
I am aware of other shooters.

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#36 pigfixer

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 05:30 PM

Weather you watch or not, at least pay enough attention to go paste/tape, paint and reset targets between shooters.
This past weekend on one all paper stage I was the only one taping, when the ro asked if I could hurry it up I suggested some other people standing sround discussing what they where going to do, get there a$$ down there.

"Awareness: Observation without thought or judgement"
I am aware of other shooters.



#37 benos

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 07:22 PM

I watch but I try not to let it influence my plan or my speed. I try to keep a detached view of it.

Ditto for me too.

I always enjoyed watching others shoot - it's fun. And I often learn, in many realms.

It took me some time, however, before I learned how to watch others shoot. If you don't keep yourself in 100% objective mode - watching will mess with your head.
be
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#38 CSEMARTIN

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 12:38 AM

watching will mess with your head.
be


I watched a shooter run a field course at Summer Blast a few years ago---right before it was my turn to shoot. Looking back on it all, I can't believe I changed my plan when I was on deck. It ended very badly for me!

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#39 Jasonub

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 01:14 AM

i dont watch when its a couple of shooters before i shoot.

It influences the way you shoot.

Sometimes, i reload where the last guy i saw reload even if i did not plan it that way.

Or i shoot a target that i dont need to shoot (double vision targets)

It screws with your mind.

Unless the other shooter is also a top shooter who has the same excact plan as me, id rather not see. Even if he is a top shooter. There are different ways to shoot a cof. Like he shoots statically and i on the move, it may influence you when its your time to shoot.

So I'd rather not. Unless he is Grauffel or someone like that. Being human, even top shooters make mistakes and if you see it, you may also do the same thing when its your turn to shoot.

So, if i have to watch(like on a squad) I watch after i shoot, it wont matter if the one i watch is a top shooter or a beginner since im done with that stage and it wont affect me anymore.

Secrets are an open book in this forum. I learned these things the hard way... through experience..... a lot of times :)

Ok since its all out there, here are some more opinions:

If your a begginner or a non a, m, gm, yes do watch these people shoot. It can influence you in a good way. Even if they make mistakes, it will still be better for a beginner to watch them since it influences your mind to shoot like them.

If your a m,gm already. You can watch and observe and comment to yourself what they did. Was it bad or good. If good, will it work for me? Specifically if I can do what he did and do it better.

If so try and do it in practice or small matches. IF succesful you can adopt it, if not then discard it.

Experience is the best teacher. One should have an open mind on this sport. Adopt what works for you and discard it if it doesnt. Even if this was taught to you by a very good shooter. Maybe shooting a cof that way is fast for him but if your not comfortable doing it, it may be disastrous for you.

Hope these things are not to much to take in.

Edited by Jasonub, 02 December 2009 - 01:25 AM.

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#40 benos

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Posted 02 December 2009 - 02:31 PM

Experience is the best teacher. One should have an open mind on this sport. Adopt what works for you and discard it if it doesnt. Even if this was taught to you by a very good shooter. Maybe shooting a cof that way is fast for him but if your not comfortable doing it, it may be disastrous for you.

That's good advice.

At my first World Shoot I watched Ross Siegfried (sp?) shoot a stage quite differently than everyone else in the super squad. When I asked him about it, he said he knew his strengths, and although "technically" not the "best" way, he knew he would shoot it better if he shot it the way he did. He won the stage. That was a good lesson for me.

A somewhat similar story. Long ago at an Area Match, I watched Chip McCormick shoot the last stage of the day. He didn't look nearly as quick/aggressive as he normally did. When I mentioned that to him, He said it was long day and he was tired - he knew he wouldn't be as sharp as he normally is. So he "backed it off" a notch. He won the stage.
;)
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#41 glocklover

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 10:26 AM

I prefer to be the last one shooting the stage. I can see the mistake everyone is making.

#42 MoNsTeR

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 03:01 PM

I try not to watch, or at least pay too close attention to, anyone shooting my division once I'm 3-5 shooters away from being up to shoot. When I see someone shoot a plan different from my own that looks better, I'm too tempted to change my mind, and that leads to Post-Beep Shooters' Amnesia. Other than that I'll watch everyone shoot unless I'm futzing with mags or having a real conversation.
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#43 lugnut

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 03:28 PM

Experience is the best teacher. One should have an open mind on this sport. Adopt what works for you and discard it if it doesnt. Even if this was taught to you by a very good shooter. Maybe shooting a cof that way is fast for him but if your not comfortable doing it, it may be disastrous for you.

That's good advice.

At my first World Shoot I watched Ross Siegfried (sp?) shoot a stage quite differently than everyone else in the super squad. When I asked him about it, he said he knew his strengths, and although "technically" not the "best" way, he knew he would shoot it better if he shot it the way he did. He won the stage. That was a good lesson for me.

A somewhat similar story. Long ago at an Area Match, I watched Chip McCormick shoot the last stage of the day. He didn't look nearly as quick/aggressive as he normally did. When I mentioned that to him, He said it was long day and he was tired - he knew he wouldn't be as sharp as he normally is. So he "backed it off" a notch. He won the stage.
;)



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#44 Aristotle

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 04:10 PM

As long as it's not interfering with me preparing to shoot the stage, I'll always watch. Doesn't matter if it's a D or GM. Lots of things to watch in a COF.

Key is not allowing what you see to influence your plan last minute, nor dictate your rhythm.

Edited by Aristotle, 18 December 2009 - 04:10 PM.

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#45 quade

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 05:45 PM

i'll watch a few fast guys. then i concentrate on my routine. and like your friend i won't watch the other swings when i play golf. i'm a vacuum. i will always somehow copy something from their swing.
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#46 matt2ace

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Posted 19 December 2009 - 10:04 AM

I watch but I try not to let it influence my plan or my speed. I try to keep a detached view of it.


+1 :cheers:
I always try to learn from watching other shooters. I focus on technique,movement, etc. and not on how they run through a specific stage.

As a lefty, there is little advantage to watching how others (mostly righties) run a stage, my plan is almost always different. :surprise:

Edited by matt2ace, 19 December 2009 - 10:10 AM.


#47 AlamoShooter

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Posted 19 December 2009 - 04:02 PM

Are you saying that Other shooters are at a match? :goof: Is That why I use so much tape.

The more complicated the stage the more difficult it is to watch other shooters closely.

Like shooting their are many levels of ..Watching
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#48 VegasOPM

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Posted 19 December 2009 - 05:41 PM

I like to watch other shooters. I design most of the stages for our matches, so I love to see how they attack them- see if they figured out something I didn't think of. I will rarely change my plan after the walk through, but there are times that someone figures out something huge. Plus, if I don't watch them, how am I going to know if they screw up, so the mocking can commence. I don't know about your clubs, but reliving dumb mistakes is our favorite hobby.
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#49 LPatterson

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 08:05 AM

As the squad's CRO I am sorta expected to watch every shooter. The squad usually has a cross section of open, limited, limited 10, SS, production and last year I shot revolver. The proficiency level is GM to D so there are almost as many ways to shoot the COF as there are shooters. I am part of the set up crew also so I get to see and walk through the stages more than most of the shooters so I get to see which angles/locations arrangements work best because I am seeing them back to front. Most people when they are taping are not taking the time between targets to look at what other angles might be available.

Tip of the day, when you have a COF with multiple choices and you are not the 1st or 2nd shooter, move out to the targets and see what the shooting area looks like and tape while you are there.
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#50 Pro2AInPA

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Posted 23 December 2009 - 07:45 AM

I always watch the other shooters. I like to see mistakes others make so that I can try to avoid them. :mellow:
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