[Alan Adamson]

I have been shooting a ghost now for 6mos. Never had an issue with it... but at a local match last night an RO came up to me and was looking over my new open gun. In the course of that discussion, he paused, scratched his head and said... You know, these ghosts might not technically be legal. Of course I was taken aback by that comments, but we explored it a bit further.

The issue is with an STI in the holster and it's trigger guard coverage, and keeping the trigger fully covered per the rules. It seems that at the back of the trigger guard, and the rounded end of the ghost, with an STI seated fully (we tried 3 different STI's just to make sure it wasn't this one gun), that there is enough of a gap that you can physically see the trigger and an object approx 1/8-3/16 in diameter could be inserted into the gap and you could actuate the trigger. Its the most pronounced with a silver trigger on the trigger bar such that it highlights the contrast of the black holster.

I've sent Angus an email as the US rep for Ghost asking if this has been brought up before, however with the recent change of rules around *full and complete* coverage of the trigger area by a holster, I figured I'd see if anyone else had noticed this? If you haven't go stick your STI in you ghost and notice the gap...

Alan

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I think the same could be said of the CR Speed holster as well and maybe the Safariland? Is your Ghost holster for a STI or a 1911? I have both here and will check those. Thanks, Eric

[Alan Adamson]

Aircooled6racer, on Nov 19 2009, 10:22 AM, said:

Hello: I think the same could be said of the CR Speed holster as well and maybe the Safariland? Is your Ghost holster for a STI or a 1911? I have both here and will check those. Thanks, Eric

I've heard back from Angus and he'd like a picture which I'll take and post here as well.

Mine is a RH STI version with an STI in the holster.... I've not looked at any other models... hopefully the picture will help show what to look for.

Alan

[Seth]

Adjusted correctly, the limcat has almost zero play and the trigger is entirely covered. Any chance the Ghost is adjusted incorrectly?

[Chris Keen]

I've been to 4 Nationals, 6 Area matches, and a dozen state matches. No RO has ever said 1 word about my Ghost NOT being legal.

[Eastkoy]

Sounds like a perfect job for Duct Tape!

[Alan Adamson]

Chris Keen, on Nov 19 2009, 10:45 AM, said:

I've been to 4 Nationals, 6 Area matches, and a dozen state matches. No RO has ever said 1 word about my Ghost NOT being legal.

Please don't read this as suggesting that it *IS* illegal, simply a discussion to discuss if what I'm seeing is being evaluated correctly... Granted this won't make any sense until I get a picture... that will be a bit later as I simply don't have the time at the moment...

As Angus said, if 15 years no-one has brought up this issue... so perhaps I'm being over cautious...

Alan

[Flexmoney]

I've seen some holster with a bit of gap to them, but I don't think that is the same as "access to the trigger".

(anybody bother looking up the rule yet?)

[Alan Adamson]

Pictures for your reference... I'm curious if this is a one off that has just surfaced or if others see a similar thing. I've verified that the trigger guard is all the way in, and I even backed off the nylon screw so that there was pull out play when the gun was in a locked.

Alan

This post has been edited by Alan Adamson: 19 November 2009 - 11:12 AM

[domfort]

I "think" I see the possible problem - with the lock in the 12 o clock position it seems the lever is hitting the mag release (as it does with mine). If this is the case it will pull the gun further from the proper set.
Of course Im probably wrong.........

[Nik Habicht]

A solid trigger might fix that problem too --- if the concern is something getting caught in the holes....

[bofe954]

The holster must-

"completely prevent access to, or activation of, the trigger of the handgun while holstered."

I guess if it were me, I'd pull the hammer back on the empty gun, take the safety off, put it in the holster and try and pull the trigger. If you can't it's legal.

It looks legal to me from the pic. You can only see the back of the trigger.

[Alan Adamson]

domfort, on Nov 19 2009, 12:52 PM, said:

I "think" I see the possible problem - with the lock in the 12 o clock position it seems the lever is hitting the mag release (as it does with mine). If this is the case it will pull the gun further from the proper set.
Of course Im probably wrong.........

Yes I noticed that and failed to mention that once I saw that in those pictures, I took the lock off, adjusted the nylon screw all the way in, and reset the grip in the holster, the rest of the pictures are with it in this fashion. The lock is off, the trigger guard in as far as possible and making sure nothing is hitting the mag release button.

Alan

This post has been edited by Alan Adamson: 19 November 2009 - 11:03 AM

[ima45dv8]

Flexmoney, on Nov 19 2009, 12:38 PM, said:

(anybody bother looking up the rule yet?)

Yes, of course!

[Alan Adamson]

Flexmoney, on Nov 19 2009, 12:38 PM, said:

I've seen some holster with a bit of gap to them, but I don't think that is the same as "access to the trigger".

(anybody bother looking up the rule yet?)

The specific rule is 5.2.7 and 5.2.7.4

[Chris Keen]

Alan Adamson, on Nov 19 2009, 12:01 PM, said:

Chris Keen, on Nov 19 2009, 10:45 AM, said:

I've been to 4 Nationals, 6 Area matches, and a dozen state matches. No RO has ever said 1 word about my Ghost NOT being legal.

Please don't read this as suggesting that it *IS* illegal, simply a discussion to discuss if what I'm seeing is being evaluated correctly... Granted this won't make any sense until I get a picture... that will be a bit later as I simply don't have the time at the moment...

As Angus said, if 15 years no-one has brought up this issue... so perhaps I'm being over cautious...

Alan

I totally agree. And what I meant to say was "mine looks the same as in the pictures above", but I've never had anybody question me / it.

I do believe that it would be very difficult to activate the trigger in that orientation.

[Alan Adamson]

bofe954, on Nov 19 2009, 12:56 PM, said:

The holster must-

"completely prevent access to, or activation of, the trigger of the handgun while holstered."

I guess if it were me, I'd pull the hammer back on the empty gun, take the safety off, put it in the holster and try and pull the trigger. If you can't it's legal.

It looks legal to me from the pic. You can only see the back of the trigger.

Ok, so basic assessment is that to meet the spirit of the rule (yes we all know there's the letter, which I can't even attempt to respond to), that if the trigger guard is blocked in such a fashion as to not allow ones finger to enter the trigger guard while the gun is holstered, then this holster meets the spirit of the rule and in fine fashion.

I suppose if I were so inclined, I could lay up some carbon fiber and remake the outside plate such that it extends approx 1/4" aft and curved to match the contour, that would probably satisfy both the letter and spirit of the rule, but would one think that is necessary?

Mind, you, I was just as blown away as anyone that this even became a discussion point last night, was the last think I was thinking about when it occurred (mostly, how the heck did I get 1 mike/ns on 2 different stages ).

Alan

[JThompson]

I see much the same in my Ghost with my Tanfo... coming from my Open CR speed rig which covers it completely, it gave me pause when I saw it. I do feel it's safe, but....

I also give any rig the "test" I clear the weapon cock the hammer and host it safety off. I then move the gun all over the place draw and reholster, doing everything I can think of that might cause the hammer to drop. It's one of those peace of mind things i think everyone should do esp those who run cocked and locked. I had one rig drop the hammer and it went into the circular file.

This post has been edited by JThompson: 19 November 2009 - 11:51 AM

[herky]

This does not seem to be a problem with the older pin style Ghost and my SV. The trigger is completely covered. Was there a contour change with the new non-pin model?

[TISCHLJ]

Seems about the same with mine adjusted every which way . . .

no problems, plus I have no "coke spoon" fingernails that " accidentally" cause an AD. . . . .

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I have 2 of the pin style Ghost blocks. One is for a STI and the other is for a 1911. The top contour is different between those. I will have to see what the new style block looks like. I don't think it is a safety issue at all. Thanks, Eric

[kgunz11]

It prevents access to the trigger, rule is satisfied.

[Matt G]

I would have to agree that it meets the rules and therefore is legal. I don't see how you could access the trigger without a lot of work.