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Hey all,
I was going to use a Noveske SS barrel upper as a 3 gun upper, but thought maybe it was a waste or money/barrel for what we
are doing with it?? Its $450 just for the barrel. Its .50 to .75 inch accurate, which is nice a 300-440yrds, but seems a waste at 3-4 yards.
T
Noveske SS barrel too good for a 3 gun upper? Or more accurate is even better.....
MultiQuote
#2
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Posted 17 November 2009 - 11:35 AM
What will it hurt, and what is the cost difference for any other suitable barrel? I say use it, but then again, I use Noveske and JP barrels in everything.
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Whoever said "keep your friends close and your enemies closer" must not have known much about optics. Me, 16APR08
Whoever said "keep your friends close and your enemies closer" must not have known much about optics. Me, 16APR08
#3
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Posted 17 November 2009 - 11:47 AM
I think Noveske makes one of the finest barrels for the money. They are expensive.....but they also last longer than many other barrels. Also consider accuracy. They are capable of 1/2-3/4 moa. Yeah....on a bench off sandbags. I'd prefer to have a barrel capable of that kind of accuracy because when the buzzer goes off and the stress is rolling......you'll be lucky if you can get 2.5 moa. So having that kind of margin is nice under stress. When you buy a Noveske.....you get everything you pay for and then some. I have an 18" Noveske barrel(1/2 moa when new) with 15k rounds through it with only about a 1/4 moa loss of accuracy over those rounds fired. I've got a Lilja barrel with 6000 rounds that shows twice the wear in the throat than the 15k round Noveske and its never shot better than 1 moa.
Speed is Fine,Accuracy is final....but accurate hits at extremely high speed is final much faster.
Amateurs do it til they get it right. Professionals do it til they can't get it wrong.
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Posted 17 November 2009 - 11:49 AM
I use a lot of the Lothar/Walther barrels that hold the same...might as well start with something decent 
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Posted 17 November 2009 - 11:57 AM
No such thing as TOO GOOD
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#6
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Posted 17 November 2009 - 12:20 PM
Slightly biased here but I believe, for the 3 gun game, they are fantastic barrels and an excellent selection.
If the cost is a bit much, consider looking on AR15.com's equipment exchange, you can find used Noveske SS barrels there often and usually 75-100 off retail. Just another option.
For some info on just how much time and painstaking effort goes into each Noveske barrel, read this
From John himself on this topic when interviewed by Craine of Defensive Review:
"Our stainless barrels are made partially in ourshop and partially in Pac-Nor’s shop. And, the relationship that I have with Pac-Nor…I used to work there, and now what’s goin’ on is I buy steel, I take it to Pac-Nor, when the guys clock out of Pac-Nor, they clock into our barrel production. They machine my blanks with our tooling, which is all made to our design, including the drills, reamers, button, so forth, so on. They stress-relieve to our recipe, and then they give the barrels back to us, and then we finish them all in our shop.
Let me back up. You can’t call the barrel that we make a Pac-Nor barrel, because if you call Pac-Nor and order a stainless barrel, it’s gonna’ be much different. It’s gonna’ be different in every way from the barrel I sell. So when you say "what kind of materal do they use?", last time I checked, Pac-Nor uses 416 project 70 made by Carpenter, and I use a different material which is technically considered 416R, and it’s a lot harder than any stainless we’ve ever tested from other manufacturers. Our stainless comes in around 32 on the Rockwell C scale, and that’s harder even than the call-out for the M16 barrel.
...
But, what separates my product from the rest of the products out there, is…the obvious thing’s the barrel, and, from start to finish, the barrel goes through more inspection and testing than any other barrel out there that I’m aware of. From the point we pull the steel of the trailer in 12-foot bars, we instantly hardness test and serialize each bar. Then, every bar throughout the entire production process is numbered accordingly to its parent bar. And then, like I said, we designed all the tooling so the diameters on the drills, the bore reamers, the hand-lapping process, the button that does the button-rifling is our design, and it’s an improvement over conventional polygonal [rifling] in that you get an extended barrel life over conventional polygonal [rifling]. In fact, I’ve never heard of one of our new barrels shooting out. In a year and two months, there’s never been a report of one of my new buttons…the new types of rifling types [barrels] shooting out. "
And then, when we go to chambering, it’s a chambering process that I developed as an employee of Pac-Nor, and I looked at how they were chambering barrels, and I saw the logic in it, and I found ways to improve it. The reamers are all custom-made for me as far as the grind, the angles, the number of flutes. The way we chamber, you never get any scoring on the lands forward of the throat like most other people have to deal with, because our chips are forced out the back. The end result is a beautiful, highly polished chamber. Every barrel is individually inspected to ensure against or prevent reamer wear and have an undersized chamber. They all get gauged on every point, and the design of the chamber is a design I developed after many different evolutions. This was designed to work…to do full-auto mag dumps with [Black Hills] MK 262 Mod 1 [77gr Open-Tip Match (OTM) 5.56x45mm ammo], and now you can sit there and pour as much ammo as you can through the gun on full-auto, and the thing that’s gonna’ fail is the gas tube. We haven’t had any stuck chambers since I came up with the recent chamber, which is called the Noveske…the acronym, which we write on the barrel is "NMm0", and that stands for Noveske Match Mod 0. It’s a chamber that gives you 100% reliability with as much retained accuracy as possible. You can have a more accurate chamber design, but you sacrifice battle-grade reliability. You can get stuck cases and other things with different chambers.
So, from the chamber, our barrel is hardness-tested again, just to make sure we didn’t lose any hardness in the heat-treating process, and every barrel is serial-numbered at that point. So, now, all the information about the barrel, the heat-treat lot, the packing slip number, the bar number, all that information is now attached to the barrel with a 6-digit serial number, and it goes through the rest of the process with all the information attached to it by that number. And, we keep a log book with every end-user and every bit of information, just in case there was a problem with one customer’s barrel, we can track down all the related barrels and pull ‘em in in an efficient manner. And we’ve never had to do that, but I can if I need to. "
Full article/interview of John Noveske here:
http://www.defensere....view-part-one/
Noveske makes one hell of barrel make no bones about it.
Tattoo, Noveske is in your back yard... support the hometown guy, buy a Noveske!
If the cost is a bit much, consider looking on AR15.com's equipment exchange, you can find used Noveske SS barrels there often and usually 75-100 off retail. Just another option.
For some info on just how much time and painstaking effort goes into each Noveske barrel, read this
From John himself on this topic when interviewed by Craine of Defensive Review:
"Our stainless barrels are made partially in ourshop and partially in Pac-Nor’s shop. And, the relationship that I have with Pac-Nor…I used to work there, and now what’s goin’ on is I buy steel, I take it to Pac-Nor, when the guys clock out of Pac-Nor, they clock into our barrel production. They machine my blanks with our tooling, which is all made to our design, including the drills, reamers, button, so forth, so on. They stress-relieve to our recipe, and then they give the barrels back to us, and then we finish them all in our shop.
Let me back up. You can’t call the barrel that we make a Pac-Nor barrel, because if you call Pac-Nor and order a stainless barrel, it’s gonna’ be much different. It’s gonna’ be different in every way from the barrel I sell. So when you say "what kind of materal do they use?", last time I checked, Pac-Nor uses 416 project 70 made by Carpenter, and I use a different material which is technically considered 416R, and it’s a lot harder than any stainless we’ve ever tested from other manufacturers. Our stainless comes in around 32 on the Rockwell C scale, and that’s harder even than the call-out for the M16 barrel.
...
But, what separates my product from the rest of the products out there, is…the obvious thing’s the barrel, and, from start to finish, the barrel goes through more inspection and testing than any other barrel out there that I’m aware of. From the point we pull the steel of the trailer in 12-foot bars, we instantly hardness test and serialize each bar. Then, every bar throughout the entire production process is numbered accordingly to its parent bar. And then, like I said, we designed all the tooling so the diameters on the drills, the bore reamers, the hand-lapping process, the button that does the button-rifling is our design, and it’s an improvement over conventional polygonal [rifling] in that you get an extended barrel life over conventional polygonal [rifling]. In fact, I’ve never heard of one of our new barrels shooting out. In a year and two months, there’s never been a report of one of my new buttons…the new types of rifling types [barrels] shooting out. "
And then, when we go to chambering, it’s a chambering process that I developed as an employee of Pac-Nor, and I looked at how they were chambering barrels, and I saw the logic in it, and I found ways to improve it. The reamers are all custom-made for me as far as the grind, the angles, the number of flutes. The way we chamber, you never get any scoring on the lands forward of the throat like most other people have to deal with, because our chips are forced out the back. The end result is a beautiful, highly polished chamber. Every barrel is individually inspected to ensure against or prevent reamer wear and have an undersized chamber. They all get gauged on every point, and the design of the chamber is a design I developed after many different evolutions. This was designed to work…to do full-auto mag dumps with [Black Hills] MK 262 Mod 1 [77gr Open-Tip Match (OTM) 5.56x45mm ammo], and now you can sit there and pour as much ammo as you can through the gun on full-auto, and the thing that’s gonna’ fail is the gas tube. We haven’t had any stuck chambers since I came up with the recent chamber, which is called the Noveske…the acronym, which we write on the barrel is "NMm0", and that stands for Noveske Match Mod 0. It’s a chamber that gives you 100% reliability with as much retained accuracy as possible. You can have a more accurate chamber design, but you sacrifice battle-grade reliability. You can get stuck cases and other things with different chambers.
So, from the chamber, our barrel is hardness-tested again, just to make sure we didn’t lose any hardness in the heat-treating process, and every barrel is serial-numbered at that point. So, now, all the information about the barrel, the heat-treat lot, the packing slip number, the bar number, all that information is now attached to the barrel with a 6-digit serial number, and it goes through the rest of the process with all the information attached to it by that number. And, we keep a log book with every end-user and every bit of information, just in case there was a problem with one customer’s barrel, we can track down all the related barrels and pull ‘em in in an efficient manner. And we’ve never had to do that, but I can if I need to. "
Full article/interview of John Noveske here:
http://www.defensere....view-part-one/
Noveske makes one hell of barrel make no bones about it.
Tattoo, Noveske is in your back yard... support the hometown guy, buy a Noveske!
This post has been edited by cold: 17 November 2009 - 12:24 PM
"Our sport is so extreme... the media won't even cover it"
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#7
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Posted 17 November 2009 - 01:56 PM
My current favorite upper was built using a 16.1" Recon Barrel Group. It has been an excellent barrel.
While initially the price for this kit seems a bit high, what offsets this is the inclusion of a headspaced bolt, nice low-profile gas block that has been drilled with the barrel to allow pinning the gas block on, and also the gas tube. So considering what comes with it and the .5 - .75 MOA groups it shoots with almost anything I feed it, it seems like a fair deal to me.
As said above, "No such thing as TOO GOOD"
While initially the price for this kit seems a bit high, what offsets this is the inclusion of a headspaced bolt, nice low-profile gas block that has been drilled with the barrel to allow pinning the gas block on, and also the gas tube. So considering what comes with it and the .5 - .75 MOA groups it shoots with almost anything I feed it, it seems like a fair deal to me.
As said above, "No such thing as TOO GOOD"
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Posted 17 November 2009 - 05:50 PM
WOW! And the survey says obviously Noveske. I totally agree, John makes a great product and I already has two chrome lined N4
uppers that are by far the most accurate chrome lined barrels I have shot. I was just trying to seek a little insight into going out
at getting a SS Noveske. I guess I will.... but now the question is 16" Recon or 18" SPR........
Thanks guys,
T
uppers that are by far the most accurate chrome lined barrels I have shot. I was just trying to seek a little insight into going out
at getting a SS Noveske. I guess I will.... but now the question is 16" Recon or 18" SPR........
Thanks guys,
T
#9
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Posted 17 November 2009 - 07:16 PM
For a 3 gun barrel.....stay away from the SPR contour unless you plan on getting it turned down. Its way too heavy.
Get a 16" with the intermediate gas system if available. That barrel weighs almost 32 ounces. The SPR is almost 39.
I run the 17" rifle gas and turn it down on the lathe and flute it to a weight of 28.5 ounces. And then I add another 5 ounces back with the addition of the SJC Titan comp.
Get a 16" with the intermediate gas system if available. That barrel weighs almost 32 ounces. The SPR is almost 39.
I run the 17" rifle gas and turn it down on the lathe and flute it to a weight of 28.5 ounces. And then I add another 5 ounces back with the addition of the SJC Titan comp.
Speed is Fine,Accuracy is final....but accurate hits at extremely high speed is final much faster.
Amateurs do it til they get it right. Professionals do it til they can't get it wrong.
#11
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Posted 17 November 2009 - 11:27 PM
00bullitt, on Nov 17 2009, 06:16 PM, said:
For a 3 gun barrel.....stay away from the SPR contour unless you plan on getting it turned down. Its way too heavy.
Get a 16" with the intermediate gas system if available. That barrel weighs almost 32 ounces. The SPR is almost 39.
I run the 17" rifle gas and turn it down on the lathe and flute it to a weight of 28.5 ounces. And then I add another 5 ounces back with the addition of the SJC Titan comp.
Get a 16" with the intermediate gas system if available. That barrel weighs almost 32 ounces. The SPR is almost 39.
I run the 17" rifle gas and turn it down on the lathe and flute it to a weight of 28.5 ounces. And then I add another 5 ounces back with the addition of the SJC Titan comp.
Thats what I thought too. The 18" barrel seems kinda heavy for what I plan on doing. I really think that out to 3-400 yards the 16" gun is good to go. I do like the longer gas system on the 18" though...
This post has been edited by Tattoo: 17 November 2009 - 11:29 PM
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Posted 18 November 2009 - 05:57 AM
Tattoo, on Nov 17 2009, 02:16 PM, said:
Hey all,
I was going to use a Noveske SS barrel upper as a 3 gun upper, but thought maybe it was a waste or money/barrel for what we
are doing with it?? Its $450 just for the barrel. Its .50 to .75 inch accurate, which is nice a 300-440yrds, but seems a waste at 3-4 yards.
T
I was going to use a Noveske SS barrel upper as a 3 gun upper, but thought maybe it was a waste or money/barrel for what we
are doing with it?? Its $450 just for the barrel. Its .50 to .75 inch accurate, which is nice a 300-440yrds, but seems a waste at 3-4 yards.
T
There is no such thing as too accurate. My rig sports a Noveske barrel and I don't regret spending the money for a second!
#13
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Posted 24 November 2009 - 11:41 AM
Hey All.
Just wanted to say thanks to all that responded. I got my Noveske upper in and went with the 18" barel and the
intermediate gas system and a Surefire 556K brake. Already have a 16" mid-length and wanted to try the longer barrel/gas sytem
and the Sufefire Brake. Thanks again and I will let you know how the brake works for me.
Thanks,
T
Just wanted to say thanks to all that responded. I got my Noveske upper in and went with the 18" barel and the
intermediate gas system and a Surefire 556K brake. Already have a 16" mid-length and wanted to try the longer barrel/gas sytem
and the Sufefire Brake. Thanks again and I will let you know how the brake works for me.
Thanks,
T
#14
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Posted 24 November 2009 - 11:56 AM
Did you get the SPR contour?
Speed is Fine,Accuracy is final....but accurate hits at extremely high speed is final much faster.
Amateurs do it til they get it right. Professionals do it til they can't get it wrong.
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Posted 24 November 2009 - 09:30 PM
00bullitt, on Nov 24 2009, 10:56 AM, said:
Did you get the SPR contour?
Yes I did. I know it is a little heavier , but I really wanted the 18" barrel and intermediate gas system. I got to
shot a few rounds in it today and with the Surefire brake it really seemed soft and did not move on target.
T
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Posted 24 November 2009 - 10:51 PM
Tattoo, on Nov 24 2009, 09:30 PM, said:
00bullitt, on Nov 24 2009, 10:56 AM, said:
Did you get the SPR contour?
Yes I did. I know it is a little heavier , but I really wanted the 18" barrel and intermediate gas system. I got to
shot a few rounds in it today and with the Surefire brake it really seemed soft and did not move on target.
T
You will like the barrel. I helped spec out another shooter from GA's 3 gun rifle and he used an 18" SPR barrel just like yours, it balances well with a PRS stock.
This post has been edited by cold: 24 November 2009 - 10:51 PM
"Our sport is so extreme... the media won't even cover it"
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#17
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Posted 24 November 2009 - 11:40 PM
cold, on Nov 24 2009, 09:51 PM, said:
Tattoo, on Nov 24 2009, 09:30 PM, said:
00bullitt, on Nov 24 2009, 10:56 AM, said:
Did you get the SPR contour?
Yes I did. I know it is a little heavier , but I really wanted the 18" barrel and intermediate gas system. I got to
shot a few rounds in it today and with the Surefire brake it really seemed soft and did not move on target.
T
You will like the barrel. I helped spec out another shooter from GA's 3 gun rifle and he used an 18" SPR barrel just like yours, it balances well with a PRS stock.
Hey thanks man. I really think I will like it too. I am using an old A1 rifle stock for now. But may look into that.
Thanks for the input on getting the barrel.
T
This post has been edited by Tattoo: 24 November 2009 - 11:40 PM
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Posted 25 November 2009 - 07:00 PM
Tattoo, on Nov 25 2009, 06:53 PM, said:
Got to shoot the new 18" barrel the other day. I think it likes 69 Sierras. 5 shot .606"
Yeah, all of mine will do this at 25 yards too.
Seriously though, I have 3 Noveske barrels, a 14.5, a 16.1, and an 18, and all of them are freaks when it comes to accuracy. I bet if you totally tie the gun down, you will see it even tighter, but who has time for that.
ShootersConnection.com
Whoever said "keep your friends close and your enemies closer" must not have known much about optics. Me, 16APR08
Whoever said "keep your friends close and your enemies closer" must not have known much about optics. Me, 16APR08
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Posted 25 November 2009 - 07:43 PM
fomeister, on Nov 25 2009, 09:00 PM, said:
Tattoo, on Nov 25 2009, 06:53 PM, said:
Got to shoot the new 18" barrel the other day. I think it likes 69 Sierras. 5 shot .606"
Yeah, all of mine will do this at 25 yards too.
Seriously though, I have 3 Noveske barrels, a 14.5, a 16.1, and an 18, and all of them are freaks when it comes to accuracy. I bet if you totally tie the gun down, you will see it even tighter, but who has time for that.
You do!
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Posted 26 November 2009 - 01:29 AM
fomeister, on Nov 25 2009, 06:00 PM, said:
Tattoo, on Nov 25 2009, 06:53 PM, said:
Got to shoot the new 18" barrel the other day. I think it likes 69 Sierras. 5 shot .606"
Yeah, all of mine will do this at 25 yards too.
Seriously though, I have 3 Noveske barrels, a 14.5, a 16.1, and an 18, and all of them are freaks when it comes to accuracy. I bet if you totally tie the gun down, you will see it even tighter, but who has time for that.
LOL. Funny man. It was only 100yds but still very happy w/ the results.
T
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Posted 26 November 2009 - 08:11 AM
I completely agree. Noveske barrels are AMAZING. I have one of their 10.5in for my SBR and the 18in on my SPR rifle. Its an amazing barrel. Sighted both in at 100yrds and I was getting 1in group out of the 10.5in and .50 out of the 18. VERY HAPPY
Looking at their 16.1in for my 3 gun build.
Looking at their 16.1in for my 3 gun build.
Jon Fuhrman
USPSA Number: A67155
USPSA Number: A67155
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Posted 30 November 2009 - 09:59 PM
Tattoo, on Nov 26 2009, 02:29 AM, said:
fomeister, on Nov 25 2009, 06:00 PM, said:
Tattoo, on Nov 25 2009, 06:53 PM, said:
Got to shoot the new 18" barrel the other day. I think it likes 69 Sierras. 5 shot .606"
Yeah, all of mine will do this at 25 yards too.
Seriously though, I have 3 Noveske barrels, a 14.5, a 16.1, and an 18, and all of them are freaks when it comes to accuracy. I bet if you totally tie the gun down, you will see it even tighter, but who has time for that.
LOL. Funny man. It was only 100yds but still very happy w/ the results.
T
Tattoo, good shooting. Believe it or not, you may still get better accuracy than that from a Noveske SS barrel!
"Our sport is so extreme... the media won't even cover it"
"When there's lead in the air... there's hope in the heart."
www.68forums.com
"When there's lead in the air... there's hope in the heart."
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Posted 02 December 2009 - 08:16 PM
cold, on Nov 30 2009, 08:59 PM, said:
Tattoo, on Nov 26 2009, 02:29 AM, said:
fomeister, on Nov 25 2009, 06:00 PM, said:
Tattoo, on Nov 25 2009, 06:53 PM, said:
Got to shoot the new 18" barrel the other day. I think it likes 69 Sierras. 5 shot .606"
Yeah, all of mine will do this at 25 yards too.
Seriously though, I have 3 Noveske barrels, a 14.5, a 16.1, and an 18, and all of them are freaks when it comes to accuracy. I bet if you totally tie the gun down, you will see it even tighter, but who has time for that.
LOL. Funny man. It was only 100yds but still very happy w/ the results.
T
Tattoo, good shooting. Believe it or not, you may still get better accuracy than that from a Noveske SS barrel!
Cold, Thanks. I am going to try more than a 3x scope and a better trigger this weeekend. Thanks for the input.
T
