[Aristotle]

I am trying to explode out of area's more, and working on shooting into position as well as out of. But let me know what you think. I missed steel a few times, would love to be able to call shots on it like my paper targets.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=ed0JvNzPhWg

[fourtrax]

I liked it. I thought you kept the gun up and moved quickly. I seen you shoot into and out of some positions and thought that looked good. I myself am, like you, a "B" open shooter. I think our styles are similiar, so I am anxious to see what the better shooters have to say. Good luck!

[shootingchef]

on stage 2, you went to both down range ports and stuck your pistol into the ports. the left side looked like a plate rack and I could not tell what you were shooting from the right port. You could save some time by not going all the way into a port or position, you have a dot, 5 or 7 feet farther back should not make that much difference. also I noticed quite a bit of lift on your open gun, making your follow up shots slow or mikes.
On the classifier, "times two". it's a 5 second stage for B class or better, when going into the second box, you took extra steps, planted, then took your sight picture, thats at least a second, maybe more. good shooting! Love the hat cam.

[Aristotle]

yeah, I totally chickened out on hitting the plate rack from further back. I just wanted to clean the rack and get out of there. I had originally planned to do that, then I got visions of lone shots without the sweet sound of a 'twang' from hitting steel. I at least didn't want to bury myself like I did in there, i could have probably stood back a little further.

As for the classifier, I agree. Even I was surprised at how slow it was, I was totally focused on getting my points. I am approaching classifiers a little more conservitively now and just treating them like another stage of a match I am trying to win. I felt others may push themselves too far on that stage, so I wanted to kick back and pick up the points. turns out I would have been better off giving up 50% to the C's and D's on that stage and gone for the 5 sec run.

One thing for sure, I need to get better at stage point assesment, and really learn which stages I can get away with hosing. But Ed also tells me I should always go for points. So I'm a little torn.

[kgunz11]

Did you have a mag problem on stage 1?

[Aristotle]

it may have been ammo. I got lazy the night before and didn't case gauge my ammo like I usually do and said I would do it at the range, yea rite, that didn't happen.

It was a failure to feed, bullet got hung up.

[shootingchef]

Aristotle, on Nov 16 2009, 10:10 PM, said:

yeah, I totally chickened out on hitting the plate rack from further back. I just wanted to clean the rack and get out of there. I had originally planned to do that, then I got visions of lone shots without the sweet sound of a 'twang' from hitting steel. I at least didn't want to bury myself like I did in there, i could have probably stood back a little further.

As for the classifier, I agree. Even I was surprised at how slow it was, I was totally focused on getting my points. I am approaching classifiers a little more conservitively now and just treating them like another stage of a match I am trying to win. I felt others may push themselves too far on that stage, so I wanted to kick back and pick up the points. turns out I would have been better off giving up 50% to the C's and D's on that stage and gone for the 5 sec run.

One thing for sure, I need to get better at stage point assesment, and really learn which stages I can get away with hosing. But Ed also tells me I should always go for points. So I'm a little torn.

you need points to win, but go slow and you will never win. Match breakdown is crucial in match prep. Knowing what you need to do to maximize your points per stage is how the best guys always win the match. Speed vs. Accuracy. go fast, just don't miss. LOL

Good point about the classifier management, but being conservative will slow you down. Shoot cleanly, clearly and as fast as you can shoot alphas.

[JThompson]

Aristotle, on Nov 16 2009, 11:23 PM, said:

it may have been ammo. I got lazy the night before and didn't case gauge my ammo like I usually do and said I would do it at the range, yea rite, that didn't happen.

It was a failure to feed, bullet got hung up.

Looked to me like the ejected brass got hung up a bit and might have caused the jam....

[Aristotle]

JThompson, on Nov 16 2009, 10:35 PM, said:

Aristotle, on Nov 16 2009, 11:23 PM, said:

it may have been ammo. I got lazy the night before and didn't case gauge my ammo like I usually do and said I would do it at the range, yea rite, that didn't happen.

It was a failure to feed, bullet got hung up.

Looked to me like the ejected brass got hung up a bit and might have caused the jam....

wow, I just realized that reviewing the hatcam. This whole time I "remembered" it to be a Failure to feed. Now it looks like the brass didn't make it out of the chamber. Any thoughts?

[JThompson]

I looped it and it looks to me like it's striking the mount on the way out on that shot. That stuff is all about ejector and extractor... It also can be caused by a bad piece of brass, dirty extractor tunnel etc. These things are like a virus and can be hard to cure.

The brass did make it out, it just looked like it impacted the scope mount... and may have stopped the slides forward progress.

This post has been edited by JThompson: 17 November 2009 - 12:09 AM

[Aristotle]

I'm using range brass and It's at least been 1.5-2k rounds since I've pulled my aftec extractor out. I think it's maybe time for some preventative maintenance and time for a new extractor and ejector.

I really liked the movement of that stage and would have tore it up if it wasn't for that jam. Added 3 seconds to that stage.

This post has been edited by Aristotle: 17 November 2009 - 12:15 AM

[shootingchef]

I clean my aftec every 500 rounds, the gunk gets into the tunnel and prevents the Aftec from working properly.

[Sean Gaines]

shot calling, your movement is pretty good, case gauge your ammo before a match,duh, lol

[Supermoto]

shootingchef, on Nov 16 2009, 09:55 PM, said:

On the classifier, "times two". it's a 5 second stage for B class or better, when going into the second box, you took extra steps, planted, then took your sight picture, thats at least a second, maybe more. good shooting! Love the hat cam.

Mid 5s with good hits will get you a GM Score

[Coach]

On the house hunting stage you from the second position (i think) you shot the steel from way back and then ran forward to engage other targets through the port. Why not shoot the steel from the closer position?

[Aristotle]

Coach, on Nov 17 2009, 01:57 PM, said:

On the house hunting stage you from the second position (i think) you shot the steel from way back and then ran forward to engage other targets through the port. Why not shoot the steel from the closer position?

I think you are talking about the part where I went from inside the house, and ran out of the door, then engaged a USP and 2 plates?

if so, it's because there was a fault line/DQ line for steel, it had to be engaged from behind that line per 7 yard on steel rule.

[steel1212]

Coach, on Nov 17 2009, 04:57 PM, said:

On the house hunting stage you from the second position (i think) you shot the steel from way back and then ran forward to engage other targets through the port. Why not shoot the steel from the closer position?

Looks like the steel might have been to close and they had a steel line.

Ari, I'm trying to figure out how the heck your still in B class. Looks like your moving on pretty good! One thing I saw when watching, and I need to do this myself, is get the gun up and ready to go as soon as your last foot comes up going into the box.

[Aristotle]

I suck at standards type stuff. Plus I'm just shooting them like they were another stage in the match. I've given up on trying to smoke them now. I'm at 71%, all I need is one good run and I'm in the bottom of the pool of A.

I'd like to get some notable wins in B open, but I don't care either case.

[CHA-LEE]

Here is what I see….

Stage 1 – At the start the target engagement order seems a little in efficient. To me it would make more sense to shoot the right target as you are backing up a couple of steps and then when you transition to the left the full target that was blocked would be available to engage. Then you can advance as you were engaging the left target and by the time you are done with that the right side target should be available. Then you can focus on hauling ass to the next shooting position. I think you lost time by staying forward and pulling the gun back and poking it back out to engage the blocked full target past the door threshold.

In the second shooting position you engage the steel straight ahead then move to the left paper and then back to the forward section to get the steel on the left. That also seem like a strange target engagement order. If I was shooting it I would have came in on the left paper and then swung to the right to engage the forward steel and then engage the left steel as I was backing into the next shooting position.

In the last shooting position you engage the paper from left to right and then have to swing hard to the left to finish on the steel. Why not shoot the paper from right to left as that would promote your movement to the last steel target. Wasted movement is wasted movement no matter how fast you try to transition to recover from it.

Stage 2 – Watch your draw. What is your left hand doing while you grip the gun? Nothing. That is not good. As soon as the buzzer goes off both of your hands should be moving in an effort to get together to complete the grip. The sooner the grip is completed the sooner you can start shooting. Your stance is also strange because your right foot us up on the box, then when you move you do a stutter step to get moving. It would have been faster to get a wider stand inside the box that would allow you to push off with your left leg/foot without having to reposition it. Others have mentioned the entering shuffling around so I won’t touch on that. I think most of your time lost on this stage is due to your shooting speed. It seems way too slow and to not all be A’s makes it even worse.

Stage 3 – Once again, funky target engagement order. Why not start on the small plates then do the poppers and then finish on the paper DT? On a speed shoot style stage like that an extra transition from one target to another like you did going to the paper and then back to the plates kills a lot of precious time. That and its easier to transition from tight slow shots to faster shooting verses the other way around. Think about it, plates = tight/slow, poppers = medium/fast, paper = easy/super fast.

Stage 4 – What’s up with your weak hand repeatedly going for a mag almost every time you exit a shooting position? Is your stage plan solid enough? When you exit the shoot house and engage the steel you should have taken the plates first and then finished on the popper. Finishing on the popper is an easier shot and allows you to start breaking down your stance as you engage it so you can going sooner.

Stage 5 – I am not sure about the engagement order or the paper or the outside entry to the first shooting position. If you followed the normal stage path toward the first port you could engaged the paper as you entered the port finishing tight on the right target. It looks “Cooler” to shoot as you back up, but you can usually shoot more steady and aggressive while advancing not to mention being able to move forward more aggressive. Both side ports could have been shot faster and more aggressively that way verses how you did it.

Overall good shooting. Smooth out the target engagement order kinks and your stage times will reap the benefit. As always, I was not there to see the stages myself so its really hard to give absolute advice. Take it or leave it, but this is what I see in your video’s.

[Bigpops]

Once again Cha-Lee..........

Fantastic breakdown and critique.

[Sean Gaines]

CHA-LEE, on Nov 17 2009, 11:09 PM, said:

Here is what I see….

Stage 1 – At the start the target engagement order seems a little in efficient. To me it would make more sense to shoot the right target as you are backing up a couple of steps and then when you transition to the left the full target that was blocked would be available to engage. Then you can advance as you were engaging the left target and by the time you are done with that the right side target should be available. Then you can focus on hauling ass to the next shooting position. I think you lost time by staying forward and pulling the gun back and poking it back out to engage the blocked full target past the door threshold.

In the second shooting position you engage the steel straight ahead then move to the left paper and then back to the forward section to get the steel on the left. That also seem like a strange target engagement order. If I was shooting it I would have came in on the left paper and then swung to the right to engage the forward steel and then engage the left steel as I was backing into the next shooting position.

In the last shooting position you engage the paper from left to right and then have to swing hard to the left to finish on the steel. Why not shoot the paper from right to left as that would promote your movement to the last steel target. Wasted movement is wasted movement no matter how fast you try to transition to recover from it.

Stage 2 – Watch your draw. What is your left hand doing while you grip the gun? Nothing. That is not good. As soon as the buzzer goes off both of your hands should be moving in an effort to get together to complete the grip. The sooner the grip is completed the sooner you can start shooting. Your stance is also strange because your right foot us up on the box, then when you move you do a stutter step to get moving. It would have been faster to get a wider stand inside the box that would allow you to push off with your left leg/foot without having to reposition it. Others have mentioned the entering shuffling around so I won’t touch on that. I think most of your time lost on this stage is due to your shooting speed. It seems way too slow and to not all be A’s makes it even worse.

Stage 3 – Once again, funky target engagement order. Why not start on the small plates then do the poppers and then finish on the paper DT? On a speed shoot style stage like that an extra transition from one target to another like you did going to the paper and then back to the plates kills a lot of precious time. That and its easier to transition from tight slow shots to faster shooting verses the other way around. Think about it, plates = tight/slow, poppers = medium/fast, paper = easy/super fast.

Stage 4 – What’s up with your weak hand repeatedly going for a mag almost every time you exit a shooting position? Is your stage plan solid enough? When you exit the shoot house and engage the steel you should have taken the plates first and then finished on the popper. Finishing on the popper is an easier shot and allows you to start breaking down your stance as you engage it so you can going sooner.

Stage 5 – I am not sure about the engagement order or the paper or the outside entry to the first shooting position. If you followed the normal stage path toward the first port you could engaged the paper as you entered the port finishing tight on the right target. It looks “Cooler” to shoot as you back up, but you can usually shoot more steady and aggressive while advancing not to mention being able to move forward more aggressive. Both side ports could have been shot faster and more aggressively that way verses how you did it.

Overall good shooting. Smooth out the target engagement order kinks and your stage times will reap the benefit. As always, I was not there to see the stages myself so its really hard to give absolute advice. Take it or leave it, but this is what I see in your video’s.

Very good in depth analysis, I agree with pretty much 99% of what was said, except the last stage, I think going back and the forward to the first position, while backing up was alot faster, than doing an L, splits could have been a little faster, as long as you are getting the A's

I never noticed that about your week hand on the draw, it needs to be moving at the buzzer also

going for his mag, is a result of shooting single stack

As far as 1st stage, going back in forth on the 2nd array, I would have to see the stage, in order to see if what he did was correct, but I couldn't really tell

also, look at how long the pause is when you come to a shooting postion, before your first shot goes off, know one has mentioned that, but that is huge!

[Aristotle]

CHA-LEE, on Nov 17 2009, 09:09 PM, said:

Here is what I see….

Stage 1 – At the start the target engagement order seems a little in efficient. To me it would make more sense to shoot the right target as you are backing up a couple of steps and then when you transition to the left the full target that was blocked would be available to engage. Then you can advance as you were engaging the left target and by the time you are done with that the right side target should be available. Then you can focus on hauling ass to the next shooting position. I think you lost time by staying forward and pulling the gun back and poking it back out to engage the blocked full target past the door threshold.


In the second shooting position you engage the steel straight ahead then move to the left paper and then back to the forward section to get the steel on the left. That also seem like a strange target engagement order. If I was shooting it I would have came in on the left paper and then swung to the right to engage the forward steel and then engage the left steel as I was backing into the next shooting position.

In the last shooting position you engage the paper from left to right and then have to swing hard to the left to finish on the steel. Why not shoot the paper from right to left as that would promote your movement to the last steel target. Wasted movement is wasted movement no matter how fast you try to transition to recover from it.


The stage was a little tight, I played around with a few things on that first set of arrays, in the end, my body did something totally different.

Absolutely correct with the last position engagement, i don't know what happened there, must have forgot to put that into the plan, again I went into "autopilot".

Stage 2 – Watch your draw. What is your left hand doing while you grip the gun? Nothing. That is not good. As soon as the buzzer goes off both of your hands should be moving in an effort to get together to complete the grip. The sooner the grip is completed the sooner you can start shooting. Your stance is also strange because your right foot us up on the box, then when you move you do a stutter step to get moving. It would have been faster to get a wider stand inside the box that would allow you to push off with your left leg/foot without having to reposition it. Others have mentioned the entering shuffling around so I won’t touch on that. I think most of your time lost on this stage is due to your shooting speed. It seems way too slow and to not all be A’s makes it even worse.

You're rite, I also noticed that my support hand got lazy. Also, I probably should have positioned myself square in the box. My foot was on the box because I was as far right of the box as possible. In the end, I lost time by not being able to plant my push off foot. This was the very first stage of our match, and I was the RO/Squad mom and didn't really have much time to prepare for this stage as I felt it was fairly simple. Again, I saw a lot of Mikes on this stage, and it kinda shook me, so I just wanted to make sure I got all my hits.

question: Does someone bombing, or screwing up in a stage have any effects to your confidence of that stage? Seems like this one got in my head a bit.

Stage 3 – Once again, funky target engagement order. Why not start on the small plates then do the poppers and then finish on the paper DT? On a speed shoot style stage like that an extra transition from one target to another like you did going to the paper and then back to the plates kills a lot of precious time. That and its easier to transition from tight slow shots to faster shooting verses the other way around. Think about it, plates = tight/slow, poppers = medium/fast, paper = easy/super fast.

I actually did shoot at the Steel plate first, but I missed so I left it and started on the PP's. The plan was to go Right to left and not try and pick up the misses until after the DT so I kept my momentum. Everyone in my squad sat there and missed that plate and kept trying to shoot it. I left it. I don't have much confidence in my first shot wether it's from a draw, or entering a shooting position (practice). So you will notice I factor my insufficiencies in my game plan. I will always come in shooting the easiest, most available target. That is why I told myself I needed to move if I missed that first shot at the steel plate.

I won this stage outright btw. Scorekeeper came out of the stat shack to tell me I smoked that stage. But inside I know I could have shot it much better.

Stage 4 – What’s up with your weak hand repeatedly going for a mag almost every time you exit a shooting position? Is your stage plan solid enough? When you exit the shoot house and engage the steel you should have taken the plates first and then finished on the popper. Finishing on the popper is an easier shot and allows you to start breaking down your stance as you engage it so you can going sooner.

The stage was 29 rounds, and I had 30 in the stick. After I missed steel twice on the first position, I knew I needed to reload. I almost reloaded before shooting the paper on the left, but engaged it first THEN reloaded as I got through the door. I don't think the Video shows this very well.

Great idea on exit strategy on the plates and PP. But again, this was another factor in my game plan because of my insufficiency of hitting something tight when entering a position, so I wanted to hit the easiest target first. (practice)

Stage 5 – I am not sure about the engagement order or the paper or the outside entry to the first shooting position. If you followed the normal stage path toward the first port you could engaged the paper as you entered the port finishing tight on the right target. It looks “Cooler” to shoot as you back up, but you can usually shoot more steady and aggressive while advancing not to mention being able to move forward more aggressive. Both side ports could have been shot faster and more aggressively that way verses how you did it.

Overall good shooting. Smooth out the target engagement order kinks and your stage times will reap the benefit. As always, I was not there to see the stages myself so its really hard to give absolute advice. Take it or leave it, but this is what I see in your video’s.

I paced out the distances, it was actually about 6-7 feet shorter distance by cutting the corner. And a big guy like me, runs faster forward, then having to hit the breaks and turn left. I based my game plan based on my strengths. And I am much better at shooting things backing up, than I am advancing on them. (practice this more) I shot this stage 2 seconds faster then the field. The theory I had was that I would be square with the tight paper coming in and I can hit everything else backing up. But I have been told before on shooting things while entering, this is a big part of my game I hope to get better at for next year. I am actually working a lot on this portion of my game. As well as the draw/grip.

It's apparent there are points of my game I need to refine that is now becoming a hinderance to crucial stage break down. Awesome input/insight, thanks again ChaLee!

Thank you very much Cha Lee!! my input is in bold.

This post has been edited by Aristotle: 18 November 2009 - 10:36 AM

[CHA-LEE]

Aristotle> To answer your question about losing confidence in your abilities/plan when you see others failing the answer is "Hell Yeah!!!". But that is also why I choose to not watch the shooters performance a couple before me. I either don't watch or focus on the activator timing sections of the stage as the shooter engages the targets. This helps me detach from their run and further burn in my plan of shooting the stage.

I would also suggest getting away from comparing stage times to others to consider your performance a success/failure. If you shoot a stage substandard to what you know you wanted or could do, but still happened to win the stage by X seconds, does it really matter? Not really. Once you start setting your expectations to other peoples performances you instantly limit your skill level to theirs.

Before I shoot a stage its nice to know what the "Good" stage time is. But that information isn't critical. I also realize that no matter how insanely fast or slow the current best stage time is by others it has no relevance on my ability to shoot as fast as I can call my shots. All I can do is shoot as fast as I can call my shots and optimize my movement through the stage. Whatever stage time that leaves me with is what it is. If I was able to execute on my plan, call all of my shots, and flow through the stage in an efficient manner then that is the best I could do on that given stage for that given day. To me, that is a personal win that really can't be measured against others stage runs.

When I am shooting a match, I am competing against myself. My expectations, My requirements, My rewards, and My failures. We will always be at different skill levels and have different strengths and weaknesses. What really matters is that you are pushing yourself to learn with every shot taken and to always strive to get better. Is that process any different for a C class or GM level shooter? Not at a basic level it isn't. The things they may have to work on to take their shooting to the next level may be vastly different, but their end goal of getting better is always the same. Or at least should be.

Keep at it and never settle for less than perfect and you will achieve whatever goals you set for yourself.

[Aristotle]

wow, awesome feedback, thank you very much ChaLee. I do always try and strive for the best and I should not limit myself.

Thanks!!

This post has been edited by Aristotle: 18 November 2009 - 12:26 PM

[Bigpops]

Ari,

Thanks for posting your video for critique. I was hoping CHA-LEE would chime in...he is AWESOME! He has given my wife and I some fantastic critisism/instruction. That man has forgotten more than I will ever know!

Keep up the good work! Looks like I am joining you with the "Dark Side" now. I will be rockin a Pro SX as mama stole my used Rusty Kidd.