[mildot1]

Here is my dilemna.

I would like to shoot open and steel with the same gun, and do not want to go with the 38 cal.

I was seriously thinking .40 since my limited mags and reloading is set up for it but I am sensing a problem after reading the "40 open" thread with getting a good minor load for steel.

I also have almost everything I need to load 9mm, But to do that I will incurr the cost of new mags.

I also see problems switching from 9 Major to 9 Minor after reading the comp thread. Also is there a problem shooting a factory 9mm length round out of a major barrel?? I am assuming that the Major barrel must have a longer throat?? Would I need to develop a Minor load at a major COL to get it to run??

Pistol has to be on a S_I frame.

Any help would be appreciated
Mildot

[Rye]

Rob from major nyne does a lot of 9mm open. You might want to talk to him.... He has a website
m9guns

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: Why not just buy some 170mm 40 mags and shoot Open with what you have? If you like it then install a dot and see how that goes. If that works for you get a new top end built with a comp in 40. That way you will reload just one caliber and have diifferent loads for the different divisions. I was shooting minor 40 and 45 for IDPA and they worked just fine using Precision moly bullets in ESP. If you are willing to work up loads it should work great. Thanks, Eric

[Flexmoney]

mildot1, on Nov 16 2009, 06:43 AM, said:

I was seriously thinking .40 since my limited mags and reloading is set up for it but I am sensing a problem after reading the "40 open" thread with getting a good minor load for steel.

What problem?
(feel free to link and cut & paste)

[Resjudicata]

I don't recall seeing a problem with 40 in open minor for steel loads either. I'm actually working on by open topend for my Limited gun. I think it's a great idea. And, for capacity sake I am getting 27 rounds in a 170mm SV tube from Kgunz with bolen stuff. Now I just need to decide on a comp.

I second going with a 40 open topend for your Limited gun. I haven't really heard of a problem.

Chris

[mildot1]

Maybe I read into it wrong, but I did see "flyin 40" mention lack of bullet selection.

I don't think I want to just build an upper for my limited gun since I might want to shoot both at the same match.

I used a steelmaster in a USPSA match last sunday and liked it, and I believe that shooting a dot will also help in training for my limited gun.

I think that I will probably go the 40 route as it will be the most cost effective.

Thanks
Mildot

[G-ManBart]

mildot1, on Nov 16 2009, 06:05 PM, said:

I think that I will probably go the 40 route as it will be the most cost effective.

Not really.

If you're going to shoot Open you're going to need 170mm mags, so you're buying some new mags, either way. The only real difference is you'd have to buy a couple of short sticks for 9 that you wouldn't need if you went with a 40. You're talking a couple hundred dollars total. The other thing is that a lot of Open shooter's short sticks are set up such that they won't pass the 140mm gauge, so they're not really the same as a Limited shooter's mags in many cases.

The cost savings of loading 9 over 40 will save you the cost of the mags before long, so even on cost it winds up being no difference or a long-term positive for the 9. Add in the fact that you can normally get a 9 Open gun to run with factory 9mm for steel, should you want/need to do that, without giving up anything, but if you try that with .40 you're dealing with a lot more recoil, flip etc.

There are some limitations to the .40 with light bullets for steel, but it's not impossible. Still, you're not going to get quite the same combination of a lighter bullet at a higher velocity for a soft, flat shooting load if you go with the .40 no matter what you try. Similarly you're never going to get a .40 Major load to work the comp as well as a 9 Major because it's a larger, heavier bullet even at the lightest weights, the bore is larger, the velocity is lower....all of those and more. None of that is a knock on .40 as I like the cartridge and own a small pile of them. Still, set up ideally an Open gun in .40 isn't as "good" as one similarly set up in 9. Will it keep you from winning a match or making GM? No, but why give away any free advantage to everybody else?

I'm not a big 9 fan, but if I had to pick between 9 and .40 for Open the choice is easy....9 all the way. R,

Edit to add something for one of your earlier questions. The chamber for a 9 Major gun isn't cut any differently and standard 9 will work in it just fine.

This post has been edited by G-ManBart: 16 November 2009 - 05:22 PM

[mpolans]

Till you said it has to be on an S_I frame, I was thinking an SJC Glock would've been perfect for you.

[mildot1]

Thought about the glock route since I own a 22. But then it would require new holster , mags and pouches.

And really don't like the glock platform near as well as the STI.

[Joe4d]

your gonna end up being penny wise and pound foolish. Playing around with shortcuts and outside the norm setups will cost you alot of money and have no resell value. A decent made Match master type 9mm bought used can be shot for ever and basically not loose any value. If you dont like it sell it for what you paid. These guns generally have no problem with major and WWB. which is 1.169 oal. The throat doesnt affect the case. Bullets head space on the case rim. Throating simply allows a longer bullet but that doesnt affect short bullets from chambering.

[AlamoShooter]

I shot the world shoot two years with an open 40, The gun never held me back. The only reason I stopped using the 40 is that the gun got stolen. Turned out I like the 38 supper lots more = more fun to shoot than the 40.

Also two of the years I shot steel challenge my Revolver time out shot my Auto time , but not when I used the 40.

I like the 38 the for its loading range of light to major bullets fast and slow powders

[Tzygä]

I have titanium bedell comp and I can shoot 9 mm major and minor for the same set up with no problems. I usually just change 8 lb recoil sping for 6 lb recoil spring so my brasses fly little longer.
I would buy more 9 mm magazines.

[Tzygä]

And Yes I do have STI open gun.

[mildot1]

Guy's I really do appreciate the info your putting forth.

So I'm looking at changing my mind again so I'll ask a few more questions.

If I go with a 9mm open gun STI platform and expect it to work in major and minor applications what am I looking at as far as spring changes and magazine issues???

I will not need a high(IE: 32 rnd) mag capacity for minor steel challenge but will to get the max effiecncy for a true "major open" gun. Will a set of "tuned" 9mm mags work for both venues? How many rounds can I expect to get in a 170mm mag ?

Shifting back and forth should I expect to have to change recoil springs??

Thanks for the help
Mildot

[G-ManBart]

mildot1, on Nov 17 2009, 08:34 PM, said:

Guy's I really do appreciate the info your putting forth.

So I'm looking at changing my mind again so I'll ask a few more questions.

If I go with a 9mm open gun STI platform and expect it to work in major and minor applications what am I looking at as far as spring changes and magazine issues???

I will not need a high(IE: 32 rnd) mag capacity for minor steel challenge but will to get the max effiecncy for a true "major open" gun. Will a set of "tuned" 9mm mags work for both venues? How many rounds can I expect to get in a 170mm mag ?

Shifting back and forth should I expect to have to change recoil springs??

Thanks for the help
Mildot

Springs sort of depend on the exact gun....barrel, comp, slide weight etc. Some will run Minor loads just fine with the same spring used for Major. That's probably because Open guns have a pretty narrow range of spring weight that will work properly. For 9 Major about the heaviest spring you'll see anybody running is 10lbs and most folks seem to use 8 or 9lbs. Shooting 9 Minor might mean you'd have to drop a pound or two in recoil spring weight, but that's usually all it takes. Worst case you might have to go from something like a 9 for Major and a 7 for Minor, but that's all of two minutes to change.

Magazine issues should be zero between Minor and Major 9 ammo. Find an OAL that the gun likes and use that for both Major and Minor and things will be just fine. Your best bet for mag tuning right now is probably Bobby at Freedom Gunworks....talk to him and he can set you up with some mags that will work nicely for both SC and USPSA matches.

You can pretty much count on 29 or 30 rounds in a big stick that's set up and tuned properly. Some folks can make 31 round mags, but they can be finicky and wear springs out quickly. Most tuners should be able to get you 23-24rd short sticks without much trouble. SV tubes are better for 9mm because they don't require spacers to work properly, but STI tubes can be tuned to work without spacers...just takes a little more effort on the part of the tuner. R,

[warpspeed]

The simplest solution is this.

Get an open S_I gun that is set up to run Major 9.

Get a good load that makes PF using a 124 gr bullet.

For a steel load, drop 1 - 2 gr of powder and switch to a 115 gr bullet.

Gun will run just fine w/o any changes to springs, etc.

Oh, and make sure you run a cmore with the Quinn mount. It solves so many problems.

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: Why will you need a 31 round mag for steel challenge? I use 5 mags when I shoot steel challenge type stuff. They are all 140mm mags for my 40 and now 9mm Open. My new to me 9mm Open pistol-(thanks Pat) works great with SVI 170mm and 140 mm tubes. It also works great with the 2 STI 140mm tubes I have for steel challenge. I tuned all these mags myself. The 170mm mags fit the gauge and are a reloadable 30 rounds. The 140mm SVI tubes hold 25 reloadable rounds. I say reloadable because they can be reloaded with the slide closed and are reliable I can shoot major loads with a 9lb spring and also minor loads 128PF with the same spring. With the minor loads the brass lands at my feet I think for shooting minor it will take a 7lb spring or so. My major loads will use a 121gr bullet and the minor a 95gr bullet. The 95gr load is sweet to shoot. I would try an open pistol before you decide what you want. I tried alot of different open pistols and I did not like shooting them(all were 38 super or supercomp). I think most had popple holes and with those it hurt my head when I shot them It was like someone knuckling me in the firehead--ouch. This 9mm open pistol does not do that to me at all. I would take your time and try different pistols before you decide. An open Glock 17 may work for you if you can get over the grip angle for shooting steel. I still don't see anything wrong with your original plan to shoot 40 open though. A 40 open pistol shooting 155 grain bullets should be good at least they are in my 40 Limited pistol. In a 6" Fat Free they are even softer. Just something to think about. Thanks, Eric

[Litlratt]

Nice to see that allowing you to shoot the Steel gun is going to cost you money

Naa Naa Boo Boo

[Tzygä]

G-ManBart, on Nov 17 2009, 09:28 PM, said:

mildot1, on Nov 17 2009, 08:34 PM, said:

Guy's I really do appreciate the info your putting forth.

So I'm looking at changing my mind again so I'll ask a few more questions.

If I go with a 9mm open gun STI platform and expect it to work in major and minor applications what am I looking at as far as spring changes and magazine issues???

I will not need a high(IE: 32 rnd) mag capacity for minor steel challenge but will to get the max effiecncy for a true "major open" gun. Will a set of "tuned" 9mm mags work for both venues? How many rounds can I expect to get in a 170mm mag ?

Shifting back and forth should I expect to have to change recoil springs??

Thanks for the help
Mildot

Springs sort of depend on the exact gun....barrel, comp, slide weight etc. Some will run Minor loads just fine with the same spring used for Major. That's probably because Open guns have a pretty narrow range of spring weight that will work properly. For 9 Major about the heaviest spring you'll see anybody running is 10lbs and most folks seem to use 8 or 9lbs. Shooting 9 Minor might mean you'd have to drop a pound or two in recoil spring weight, but that's usually all it takes. Worst case you might have to go from something like a 9 for Major and a 7 for Minor, but that's all of two minutes to change.

Magazine issues should be zero between Minor and Major 9 ammo. Find an OAL that the gun likes and use that for both Major and Minor and things will be just fine. Your best bet for mag tuning right now is probably Bobby at Freedom Gunworks....talk to him and he can set you up with some mags that will work nicely for both SC and USPSA matches.

You can pretty much count on 29 or 30 rounds in a big stick that's set up and tuned properly. Some folks can make 31 round mags, but they can be finicky and wear springs out quickly. Most tuners should be able to get you 23-24rd short sticks without much trouble. SV tubes are better for 9mm because they don't require spacers to work properly, but STI tubes can be tuned to work without spacers...just takes a little more effort on the part of the tuner. R,

+1 Well said G-ManBart.
I like only add that Quinn and Barry types of mounts are great.