[Morgan]

I love CZ's. LOVE THEM. Especially the SA and Shadow models with the upswept beavertail. They point great, shoot great, track great, look great... I'm a Limited shooter at heart, and find the SP01/Shadow to be a FANTASTIC training gun (I'm lucky enough to get to train a lot, but mostly with 9mm). But fully a third of all CZ's I've owned or seen have ejection (and sometimes extraction) problems when they're BRAND NEW.

I'd love to get them authorized for duty carry by my department (about 1500 sworn, who now get to choose from a fairly extensive approved list for carry), as they are very easy to shoot well, but that would be a joke due to their ejection/extraction issues. At the IACP conference this month the CZ police guys (seperate from CZ-USA, it's complicated) offered to send us some for T&E. I laughed. We've de-authorized guns that didn't have nearly as many problems, as we don't have time to work on them and people's lives are on the line.

I have a Shadow, tuned by the custom shop, that wouldn't reliably eject. The ejection was erratic, and about once a magazine the case wouldn't eject and another cartridge would feed in under it. Not a stovepipe, as the expended case was still trapped in the slide, but not really a true double feed. Back it went to CZ-USA. They tuned it and sent it back. No love - still did it. Thankfully, I live near a CZ guru who knows how to make them run, and he helped me out.

I just bought a new Shadow (not the custom tuned, as the aforementioned guru has graciously agreed to tune it for me), as I'm probably giving my old one to a newer shooter as a congrats for making B class, and after six rounds it DID THE SAME DAMN THING! Can't make it through a single magazine! This is a brand new gun, and I expect it to perform it's function as a gun. The ejector is squared, not tuned at all, and it's CZ's top of the line, the best of the best.

My prior experience with about 10 CZ's has been similar - when they run, they're fantastic shooting machines, but about a third need extra power extractor springs and the ejector to be dressed before they'll work.

What's the deal with this? Why can't they make 'em work out of the box? Why don't they open the ejection port to alleviate some of this problem? There are guys that know how to make them work, and I know the factory can make them work, so why don't they do some QC? Aaaaarrrrrgh!!!!

*Whew*. Thanks for letting me rant! Please, please don't tell me how reliable your CZ has been - I've seen enough to know what the problems are, and your superlative luck will only make me sad.

Did I mention how much I love CZ's?

This post has been edited by Morgan: 03 November 2009 - 01:50 PM

[eerw]

damn...they must have hand-picked those for you.
glad you got them working..cuz they are pretty good guns.

[Morgan]

They're not just pretty good guns - they're GREAT! Perhaps my luck has been extraordinarily bad...

And the second one isn't working yet - I hope to hand it off next Sunday .

[double_pedro]

Morgan, on Nov 3 2009, 02:44 PM, said:

I love CZ's. LOVE THEM. Especially the SA and Shadow models with the upswept beavertail. They point great, shoot great, track great, look great... I'm a Limited shooter at heart, and find the SP01/Shadow to be a FANTASTIC training gun (I'm lucky enough to get to train a lot, but mostly with 9mm). But fully a third of all CZ's I've owned or seen have ejection (and sometimes extraction) problems when they're BRAND NEW.

I'd love to get them authorized for duty carry by my department (about 1500 sworn, who now get to choose from a fairly extensive approved list for carry), as they are very easy to shoot well, but that would be a joke due to their ejection/extraction issues. At the IACP conference this month the CZ police guys (seperate from CZ-USA, it's complicated) offered to send us some for T&E. I laughed. We've de-authorized guns that didn't have nearly as many problems, as we don't have time to work on them and people's lives are on the line.

I have a Shadow, tuned by the custom shop, that wouldn't reliably eject. The ejection was erratic, and about once a magazine the case wouldn't eject and another cartridge would feed in under it. Not a stovepipe, as the expended case was still trapped in the slide, but not really a true double feed. Back it went to CZ-USA. They tuned it and sent it back. No love - still did it. Thankfully, I live near a CZ guru who knows how to make them run, and he helped me out.

I just bought a new Shadow (not the custom tuned, as the aforementioned guru has graciously agreed to tune it for me), as I'm probably giving my old one to a newer shooter as a congrats for making B class, and after six rounds it DID THE SAME DAMN THING! Can't make it through a single magazine! This is a brand new gun, and I expect it to perform it's function as a gun. The ejector is squared, not tuned at all, and it's CZ's top of the line, the best of the best.

My prior experience with about 10 CZ's has been similar - when they run, they're fantastic shooting machines, but about a third need extra power extractor springs and the ejector to be dressed before they'll work.

What's the deal with this? Why can't they make 'em work out of the box? Why don't they open the ejection port to alleviate some of this problem? There are guys that know how to make them work, and I know the factory can make them work, so why don't they do some QC? Aaaaarrrrrgh!!!!

*Whew*. Thanks for letting me rant! Please, please don't tell me how reliable your CZ has been - I've seen enough to know what the problems are, and your superlative luck will only make me sad.

Did I mention how much I love CZ's?

Great post....and in a twisted sort of way, what you describe is one of the things I like about CZ's, you have to give 'em a little love in order to make them your own.

[BrieH43]

I just ordered my CZ75 SP-01 today! Friday the 13th is when I get it...I've ordered the 15lb hammer spring and 11 lb recoil spring.
If all goes well I should be shooting it for the first time that Sunday.

Couple weeks ago I shot a match with a friend's factory SP-01 and only had 1 Failure to eject. (but then again, I limp wristed.)

[BR]

Morgan, on Nov 3 2009, 01:44 PM, said:

I'd love to get them authorized for duty carry by my department

That's crazy talk -- you know the Travelocity Gnome has already proclaimed that CZs will not be approved. Embrace your glock love brother.
=br

[sid]

Morgan, on Nov 3 2009, 04:44 PM, said:

I love CZ's. LOVE THEM. Especially the SA and Shadow models with the upswept beavertail. They point great, shoot great, track great, look great... I'm a Limited shooter at heart, and find the SP01/Shadow to be a FANTASTIC training gun (I'm lucky enough to get to train a lot, but mostly with 9mm). But fully a third of all CZ's I've owned or seen have ejection (and sometimes extraction) problems when they're BRAND NEW.

I'd love to get them authorized for duty carry by my department (about 1500 sworn, who now get to choose from a fairly extensive approved list for carry), as they are very easy to shoot well, but that would be a joke due to their ejection/extraction issues. At the IACP conference this month the CZ police guys (seperate from CZ-USA, it's complicated) offered to send us some for T&E. I laughed. We've de-authorized guns that didn't have nearly as many problems, as we don't have time to work on them and people's lives are on the line.

I have a Shadow, tuned by the custom shop, that wouldn't reliably eject. The ejection was erratic, and about once a magazine the case wouldn't eject and another cartridge would feed in under it. Not a stovepipe, as the expended case was still trapped in the slide, but not really a true double feed. Back it went to CZ-USA. They tuned it and sent it back. No love - still did it. Thankfully, I live near a CZ guru who knows how to make them run, and he helped me out.

I just bought a new Shadow (not the custom tuned, as the aforementioned guru has graciously agreed to tune it for me), as I'm probably giving my old one to a newer shooter as a congrats for making B class, and after six rounds it DID THE SAME DAMN THING! Can't make it through a single magazine! This is a brand new gun, and I expect it to perform it's function as a gun. The ejector is squared, not tuned at all, and it's CZ's top of the line, the best of the best.

My prior experience with about 10 CZ's has been similar - when they run, they're fantastic shooting machines, but about a third need extra power extractor springs and the ejector to be dressed before they'll work.

What's the deal with this? Why can't they make 'em work out of the box? Why don't they open the ejection port to alleviate some of this problem? There are guys that know how to make them work, and I know the factory can make them work, so why don't they do some QC? Aaaaarrrrrgh!!!!

*Whew*. Thanks for letting me rant! Please, please don't tell me how reliable your CZ has been - I've seen enough to know what the problems are, and your superlative luck will only make me sad.

Did I mention how much I love CZ's?

You are not the only one to have problems with a new CZ. I am another. I bought a new CZ 75B and have returned it to the company twice and it still doesn't work properly.

[19852]

Wow, what incredible luck you have! I have owned 7 CZ's, still own one. No ejection/extraction probs in any. I always put in a XP extractor spring. I did have a Armalite AR24 for a short time that had those problems. When Armalite replaced it free, I traded the new one without firing it.

[Morgan]

19852, on Nov 4 2009, 12:09 PM, said:

I always put in a XP extractor spring.

That's why I'm ranting - ANY gun, especially a production gun, shouldn't need anything out of the box to function, ever. For the price of my top-of-the-line, fancy-schmancy Shadow that doesn't work, I could buy two M&P's or Glocks that I would be willing to strap on my hip and wear into harm's way without any testing - unfired. And I've had two of said Shadows, and several other 75's, with exactly the same problems... CZ could make fantastic inroads into the civilian and police communities, but they're simply not trusted due to the extraction/ejection issues.

Quote

...the Travelocity Gnome...

Yep, and he says that because he's seen my CZ's and several others, with the exact same problem.

Fix 'em, they're the best, but they shouldn't need fixing...

Quote

Wow, what incredible luck you have!

Yep. Funny though, my 2011's (four of them), which are supposed to be finicky, fragile toys, all run like stink from brand new. Of course for the cost they'd better. I'd happily pay an extra $100 for a CZ that I wouldn't have to wonder "will this one run or not?"

[hal1955]

I have 2 Shadows and both had problems out of the box. CZ sets their guns up to run on S&B ammo, if it's not +P it's pretty hot ammo. Recoil spring is I think 18# and hammer spring is I think 16#. I change out the recoil springs to 14# and 11# for minor PF and I change out the hammer spring to 15# -3 coils or to 13#. I polish out the chamber and deburr as necessary like I would for any other gun and they run just fine. I wore out the barrel of my practice gun after 60+ thousand rounds and I think I had 1 stove pipe with that gun (in a match of course) but I may have limp wristed that time. Keep them reasonably clean and they are pretty reliable.

This post has been edited by hal1955: 04 November 2009 - 03:29 PM

[shooterbenedetto]

I have my sp-o1 and no problems
runs like the energizer bunny keeps going and going and going.....

SB

[shogun]

I've had a couple CZs now. The first CZ I ever got was the 75b, and it's never jammed on me after thousands of rounds - not even one. For that reason alone I've kept the pistol till this day. My SP-01 is a tack driver it has yet to jam either. The only guns that have consistently jammed on me (for whatever reason) are 1911s. My CZs I can shoot side by side with my Glocks, not clean them for hundreds of rounds, and they keep running.

[Tiny Warrior]

Do you reload?
Not saying that this is the problem or anything but from my experience with my CZ SP01 I had issues regarding reloading.

I had someone reload my ammo for me when I first got into shooting & I had problems every match!!!
After getting my own press & talking to other people, the gun ran perfect everytime...no issues.

[Walküre]

Aside from my issues with the Omega trigger system, I've never had any real problems with any CZs. Absolutely no problems with extraction or ejection.

My father's 75B had some feed issues when he got it, but it turned out that one of the mags that came with the pistol was defective. Got it replaced free of charge promptly, and has never had any issues whatsoever since.

Now, my TS (.40) won't feed some sharper-TC-profile rounds worth a damn, but has no issues with anything else. Have just stayed away from that particular bullet profile and everything is golden.

[Morgan]

Tiny - I reload, but this was with factory ammo. The problem guns are worse with aluminum cased ammo, but exhibit the problems with brass cases as well.

The gun is now off with my local CZ guru - happy days on the horizon!

[BrieH43]

I'm getting my CZ75 SP-01 on Friday and am putting in the recoil spring right away...firing it for the first time at a local match on Sunday.

This post has been edited by BrieH43: 11 November 2009 - 06:15 PM

[SA Friday]

BR, on Nov 3 2009, 09:05 PM, said:

Morgan, on Nov 3 2009, 01:44 PM, said:

I'd love to get them authorized for duty carry by my department

That's crazy talk -- you know the Travelocity Gnome has already proclaimed that CZs will not be approved. Embrace your glock love brother.
=br

Dude, you called him the Travelocity Gnome

[CocoBolo]

I have 3 shot thousands of rounds the only time they stove pipe is if I fail to take the extractor out and clean and oil it. I do this about every 5000 rounds in between I spray a little LP10 on it. I clean the mags every time they go to the dirt and spray a little dry lube in for insurance. CZ or MecGar mags work anything else is junk.

The CZ's like short rounds, rn in 9 mm and fn in 40. I have shot JHP's in both without an issue, provided I got the OAL right.

[photog]

I fully understand and agree with the original post.

Things should work out of the box, as intended. If the gun is a "duty style" gun, it should feed a variety of common ammo, should extract and eject whatever goes boom in the chamber.

I wonder where CZ is sourcing parts? In other mfg'ing realms, substandard parts (usually from China) make up for a HUGE percentage of QC failures. ANd don't even get me started on the farces of ISO9001 and 6_sigma crap that companies tout when THINGS STILL DON"T WORK!!!!!!! (insert scream here)

I have shot my friends CZ TS. It works. I bought a Tanfoglio. While I *could* have shot it out of the box, good thing I didn't. There were so many shavings left in the gun it would have eventually been damaged by loose metal. That was a $900 gun. should it have had metal shavings? In a fine, hand fit Italian race gun?

[IC_Cyclone]

CocoBolo, on Nov 11 2009, 08:08 PM, said:

The CZ's like short rounds, rn in 9 mm and fn in 40. I have shot JHP's in both without an issue, provided I got the OAL right.

My experience was the opposite. The first 600 rounds (Atlanta Arms 147 JHP) out of my Shadow were trouble free. Enrolled in a class and brought Remington UMC 115 gr FMJ bulk pack ammo because it was cheap and available. Had several feeding issues, so I swiched back to AA&A. No problems.

I don't reload and don't have a micrometer, but visually it was clear the UMC 9mm was significantly shorter in OAL to other 9mm ammo on hand. Perhaps the "next round in line" was being dragged forward in the magazine by the disconnector rail and popping up ahead of the extractor?

Now, after breaking the breech face edge and polishing the disconnector rail, (and a few thousand rounds) it feeds any ammo.

I think the Shadow in particular, and CZ's in general are fine competition guns. I've no standing to comment on suitability for duty use.

[DoubleDelta]

I've owned 3 CZs and up until recently I never had any problems. My CZ97 did have feeding problems with Wolf, but I can chalk that up to the ammo since it runs everything from WWB to Hornaday TAP without fail. Now recently I had two failure to ejects. The case was still in the chamber and the next round in the mag was half way up the feed ramp. Of course it happened at a match. Granted I bought this gun used five years ago and have not replaced anything.

[Mo Hepworth]

IC_Cyclone, on Dec 1 2009, 10:10 AM, said:

CocoBolo, on Nov 11 2009, 08:08 PM, said:

The CZ's like short rounds, rn in 9 mm and fn in 40. I have shot JHP's in both without an issue, provided I got the OAL right.

My experience was the opposite. The first 600 rounds (Atlanta Arms 147 JHP) out of my Shadow were trouble free. Enrolled in a class and brought Remington UMC 115 gr FMJ bulk pack ammo because it was cheap and available. Had several feeding issues, so I swiched back to AA&A. No problems.

I don't reload and don't have a micrometer, but visually it was clear the UMC 9mm was significantly shorter in OAL to other 9mm ammo on hand. Perhaps the "next round in line" was being dragged forward in the magazine by the disconnector rail and popping up ahead of the extractor?

Now, after breaking the breech face edge and polishing the disconnector rail, (and a few thousand rounds) it feeds any ammo.

I think the Shadow in particular, and CZ's in general are fine competition guns. I've no standing to comment on suitability for duty use.

In particular,...can you describe what malfunction you were having that required the breaking of the Breach face edge. I think I am having the same problems with my New Stock2 small frame (same characteristics as Shadow). Empty casing is stuck against the next round coming up,..which appears to be against the feed ramp. Possibly dragged up there? Extractor may need to be dressed?

[IC_Cyclone]

Mo Hepworth, on Dec 16 2009, 07:25 AM, said:

IC_Cyclone, on Dec 1 2009, 10:10 AM, said:

CocoBolo, on Nov 11 2009, 08:08 PM, said:

The CZ's like short rounds, rn in 9 mm and fn in 40. I have shot JHP's in both without an issue, provided I got the OAL right.

My experience was the opposite. The first 600 rounds (Atlanta Arms 147 JHP) out of my Shadow were trouble free. Enrolled in a class and brought Remington UMC 115 gr FMJ bulk pack ammo because it was cheap and available. Had several feeding issues, so I swiched back to AA&A. No problems.

I don't reload and don't have a micrometer, but visually it was clear the UMC 9mm was significantly shorter in OAL to other 9mm ammo on hand. Perhaps the "next round in line" was being dragged forward in the magazine by the disconnector rail and popping up ahead of the extractor?

Now, after breaking the breech face edge and polishing the disconnector rail, (and a few thousand rounds) it feeds any ammo.

I think the Shadow in particular, and CZ's in general are fine competition guns. I've no standing to comment on suitability for duty use.

In particular,...can you describe what malfunction you were having that required the breaking of the Breach face edge. I think I am having the same problems with my New Stock2 small frame (same characteristics as Shadow). Empty casing is stuck against the next round coming up,..which appears to be against the feed ramp. Possibly dragged up there? Extractor may need to be dressed?

You know, I'm about as much a novice as possible, so I hesitate to give advice or ascribe any action I took with a particular result. Please don't use tools on your gun based on anything I say.

This is what I experienced and what I did:

Gun: Standard CZ Shadow, 1 month old at the time, 600 rnds of Atlanta Arms 147 grn JHP through it. Changed to 115 gr UMC FMJ. The malfunction occurred approximately once each 18 rnd magazine. An unfired cartridge would be caught vertically between the chamber and breech face. I recall that sometimes the empty brass was in the chamber still, sometimes not. Sometimes it was difficult to drop the magazine. This was happening on the first day of a 3 day training class...got lots of helpful advice including: change ammo (UMC is too short), gun is new and still tight so lube it up more, and to take a stone and slightly take the edge off the corner of the breech and the disconnector rail. Not following good scientific method, and wanting to get the gun running for days 2 and 3, I did all three at once. All three may have been, or contributed to, the problem/solution that day.

I haven't touched the ejector on mine. Used up the 115 gr UMC at the practice range a couple months later. Fed fine.

I did notice the original edge on the breech face was pretty "sharp", and I could imagine it being able to pull the next cartridge forward by friction along the top of the case as it chambered the intended round. And the short OAL length round nose UMC seems that it might be shaped such that it would advance forward more easily. All guesswork and speculation on my part, as I'm not a gunsmith and don't play one on the internet.

Shoots good now though. Might be magic! I'm sure there are others on the forum with more experience and better advice.

This post has been edited by IC_Cyclone: 17 December 2009 - 12:48 PM

[SteelShooten]

CocoBolo, on Nov 11 2009, 08:08 PM, said:

I have 3 shot thousands of rounds the only time they stove pipe is if I fail to take the extractor out and clean and oil it. I do this about every 5000 rounds in between I spray a little LP10 on it. I clean the mags every time they go to the dirt and spray a little dry lube in for insurance. CZ or MecGar mags work anything else is junk.

The CZ's like short rounds, rn in 9 mm and fn in 40. I have shot JHP's in both without an issue, provided I got the OAL right.

+1

My CZ-75 barrel had minimal leade cut in it. It was like they rifled the barrel, reamed the chamber and then blended the leading edges of the lands. It would shoot OK but when it came time to unload and show clear, it was sometimes a struggle to get the gun to relinquish the round from its chamber because the bullet had wedged into the beginning of the rifling. Yes, you could see marks on the bullet.
Good thing I don't use a light crimp, the case could have been pulled out leaving the bullet behind.


This simply would not do. The cartridges fit comfortably in the magazine, they shouldn't be too long to work the gun. I had a machinist friend of mine increase the depth of the leade slightly (or at least make the transition less abrupt) and that problem has gone away.

This post has been edited by SteelShooten: 17 December 2009 - 03:33 PM

[Johann the Horrible]

I own several CZ`s. As long as you feed them "hot"(high PF) ammo they just run and run. Mine likes the ammo long though I know of a CZ that dislikes my ammo because of the length.( It is only a problem at ULASC). At this side of the "pond" CZ`s have a reputation of guns that just keep on running on and on.