[Duane Thomas]

I think a lot of the trouble here is that most people don't practice in dry fire the same thing they do in live fire, i.e. they don't move the trigger finger nearly as fast. We all know the "hold the trigger to the rear, hand cycle the action, practice letting the trigger reset and pull again" drill. But how fast do we do it? As fast as it would take to pull a split in the teens? Or are we doing it only as fast as we think we can do it smoothly? When we then crank it up beyond that speed in live fire, we are doing something that, in essence, we have never practiced. We are doing something "other" and frightening, something our subconscious mind is not experienced at doing - and we fall apart.

I found that, for me, two things helped me maintain good trigger control at speed. One was, in dry fire, when doing the reset/pull-the-trigger-again drill, to begin doing that literally as fast as I can. Hand cycle the action while holding the trigger to the rear, then reacquire the two-hand grip, then (here comes the fast part) let the trigger go forward and pull it again, as fast as possible. See that you can do that without moving the gun - and you can. Thus you'll begin to build the reps on smooth, controlled trigger pulls even when moving at max speed.

I've recently begun to question the wisdom of trigger prepping. Now, don't get me wrong, there are times in our shooting when there are major advantages to trigger prepping - when driving the gun toward the first target on the draw, or to ready the gun for the next shot during a long transition, for instance. But for speed and accuracy during multi-shot strings I've found that the concept of continuous trigger motion works much better for me. Fast, smooth, continuous trigger movement, back-and-forth like a little pendulum. No trigger prep, no stopping, just the same speed (max) in both directions, like a metronome. Guess what? If all you ever practice is prepping the trigger, you're not practicing the sort of fast, continuous trigger motion that will give you accuracy at speed. Practice continuous trigger motion.

The second thing I've found an immense help is the Airsoft gun. Because with the Airsoft you don't have to hold the trigger to the rear while you hand cycle the action, the Airsoft cycles just like a real gun, you can practice continuous trigger motion. This gives you, for all practical purposes, much more realistic dry fire practice. I really, really like and recommend shooting on reactive targets. I've built myself a 5-plate BAM Targets plate rack. Practicing on reactive steel seems to cut a lot of self-delusion and wishful thinking, and forgiveness of possibly sloppy technique, out of the practice equation. There's no "I think the sights were aligned," you either hit or you miss. Getting to the point your trigger control is good enough that you can run a plate rack perfectly, time after time, on the scale model BAM plates as fast as you can pull the trigger is a great way to improve your trigger control at speed.

[el pres]

Good stuff Duane but I have to prep on anything past 30. Just this last summer
I overtrained the release and pull so much that I had to stop and force myself to
prep everything for 2 weeks just to get back on track. So keep it deverse, try
everything.

What I was saying earlier in the thread about "trying" had nothing to do with trying to
"shoot" fast. I am very aware of the importance of calling the shot, allowing the sights
to dictate the speed,etc., I have already proven it to myself with a timer. What I was refering
to was individual tasks during the COF.

For instance, at my skill level, I need to tell myself to grab the gun hard on the draw in
order to have a sub second draw, or I need to tell myself to move "hard" to the next position
or I will slack, or swing "hard" on that wide transition. All these forced movements cause tension
and this tension does linger on throughut the rest of the stage, sometimes even for the shooting.

[benos]

sigfla, on Oct 31 2009, 10:54 AM, said:

I made that mistake a few months ago. I began re-reading Brians book and anything else I could find on grip and overall index. I found my index and grip both needed some consistency work but the problem is once I started questioning things I didn't know when to stop.

Don't stop working on your draw/presentation until, with your eyes closed, you can draw to a perfect sight alignment, every time. And then practice that forever.
be

[sigfla]

Thanks for the advice Brian. That comment will be a jewel for me I think. My trigger manipulation during my last match was much better but after going back and looking at the film with my shooting buddy he pointed out some other issues I have been having. My draw is much slower now than it has been in the past and my grip seems to suffer as a result of it. Instead of concentrating on a proper grip I have been worried about pulling the trigger correctly. No measure of proper trigger control is gonna help me pull out of a piss poor strong and weak hand grip on the gun. Neutrality goes out the window. I have been sluggish overall in my movements for the last few months also.

I realize now I need to do just what Brian is saying. I used to put myself on a timer and dry fire from the draw. I haven't done that since I started stressing about everything else. If I can do what Brian says and get a good solid grip and presentation with the gun I should be back to where I was earlier this year. I have been frustrated lately with all this if you can't tell b/c I feel I have been sliding backwards instead of forwards. I have been throwing ideas around like a shotgun blast and forgot basic fundamentals I think. All I am gonna do this week is practice on the timer draw and dry fire. I will shoot a USPSA match on Sunday and that will let me know what I am doing right or wrong.

Having my buddy comment on me always helps also. We used to do this religiously but again we have both started doing things different since we started shooting again late this year. I wish I had never taken the summer off at this point b/c I felt really good earlier this year.

[Pat Harrison]

I've been through this too, tear your technique down. Ignore the draw and just work on getting a good grip on the gun and shoot some strings from the ready position, see what the results are. When you get your grip sorted out, start working on the draw. The purpose of the draw is to get your hand on the gun in the proper grip and ready to shoot, nothing more. A poor grip on the gun leads to poor shooting, poor shooting leads to doubt, doubt leads to fear and fear leads to the Dark Side....well you get my point.

[benos]

sigfla, on Nov 3 2009, 07:02 AM, said:

Thanks for the advice Brian. That comment will be a jewel for me I think. My trigger manipulation during my last match was much better but after going back and looking at the film with my shooting buddy he pointed out some other issues I have been having. My draw is much slower now than it has been in the past and my grip seems to suffer as a result of it. Instead of concentrating on a proper grip I have been worried about pulling the trigger correctly. No measure of proper trigger control is gonna help me pull out of a piss poor strong and weak hand grip on the gun. Neutrality goes out the window. I have been sluggish overall in my movements for the last few months also.

I realize now I need to do just what Brian is saying. I used to put myself on a timer and dry fire from the draw. I haven't done that since I started stressing about everything else. If I can do what Brian says and get a good solid grip and presentation with the gun I should be back to where I was earlier this year. I have been frustrated lately with all this if you can't tell b/c I feel I have been sliding backwards instead of forwards. I have been throwing ideas around like a shotgun blast and forgot basic fundamentals I think. All I am gonna do this week is practice on the timer draw and dry fire. I will shoot a USPSA match on Sunday and that will let me know what I am doing right or wrong.

Please don't be too quick to judge yourself. A week of good dry-drawing is not indicative of anything, right or wrong.

Re-read your post... Very scattered, and as such everything suffers. Get back to basics and settle in for slow, steady improvement as basic fundamentals and technique get you back on track.
be

[Sam]

There are some themes that run through many threads here at be.com. One of the themes that has spoken to me often over the years, is that doubt permits conflict.

This I have learned: I cannot shoot well when there is conflict in my consciousness. If the bullets aren't ending up where I thought they were headed, doubt arises as hot and sure as the noon day sun. And everybody knows that's where conflict always get settled. (At least in the old westerns)

The quicker the doubt can be removed, and precise shot calling is the antidote, the quicker I can resolve the inner conflict and return to good shooting.

If a shooter can slap the trigger and still call the shot, I can't see that resulting in a mental conflict or a missed shot. It isn't the slap that's the problem, it's the failure to know where the shot went.

[benos]

Sam, on Nov 4 2009, 11:26 PM, said:

It isn't the slap that's the problem, it's the failure to know where the shot went.

That is the eternal problem.

I clearly remember words close to these that came of the TGO's mouth (when instructing a shooter): The single most important job an IPSC shooter has is to always call every shot. It struck me at the time because I remember thinking I thought I was the only one who knew that.

be

[WhoIsJohnGalt]

benos, on Nov 5 2009, 02:54 PM, said:

Sam, on Nov 4 2009, 11:26 PM, said:

It isn't the slap that's the problem, it's the failure to know where the shot went.

That is the eternal problem.

I clearly remember words close to these that came of the TGO's mouth (when instructing a shooter): The single most important job an IPSC shooter has is to always call every shot. It struck me at the time because I remember thinking I thought I was the only one who knew that.

be

Newb question here... What do you mean when you talk about 'calling every shot'?
Edit: Nevermind, read the FAQ's, should have started there to begin with!

Thanks,

Mike

This post has been edited by WhoIsJohnGalt: 11 November 2009 - 10:41 AM

[Graham Smith]

Duane Thomas, on Oct 31 2009, 01:09 PM, said:

Because with the Airsoft you don't have to hold the trigger to the rear while you hand cycle the action, the Airsoft cycles just like a real gun, you can practice continuous trigger motion.

I've recently started using an airsoft gun for some dryfire practice. Take out the magazine and slide the follower to the bottom and lock it there. This will keep the slide from locking open and you can just fire blanks.

[AriM]

I hate to be one of those guys who says it's the equipment (because 98% of the time it isn't), but maybe changing your take-up/over travel will help with that....do you have an "long trigger"?.....I found I was slapping a bit (a bit left and low) and helped it a bit by reducing my take-up and switching to a longer trigger....this way I seem to get more extension in my finger and can "roll" my finger across the trigger....now I find that my follow-up shots are more about squeezing with my weak hand and rolling with my strong finger.....these things helped me A LOT!!! still far from perfect (still a bit left of POA) but a major improvement, and more consistent groups (because I am less worried about trigger control).....

[sigfla]

I went to a short trigger so that my finger is now perpendicular to the trigger face. It has so far made a big difference.

[AriM]

sigfla, on Dec 11 2009, 05:56 AM, said:

I went to a short trigger so that my finger is now perpendicular to the trigger face. It has so far made a big difference.

interesting....for me it's the opposite...with a short trigger...I slap...but then again each persons hands are built totally differently...and each finds a technique that works for him/her....that's one more reason to love the sport...variety...what glove size do you wear??