[Larry LeBeau]

At this weekends 3 guns nats we had some clay flippers that at times where not all that conceistant.. Some , say 5 or 6 in a row would fly straight up then 5 or six would come flying back over the shooters head... I shoot this game for ONE reason FUN... so I understand that { It is what it is } as to the flight pattern on the clays, but we need to try to get this flying bird thing down pat.. Is there a SECERT as to setting that clay up??? Dome down , up , dig out a little hole for the bird to rest in.. Buy a Hi speed camera and look for a fix !!!!!

[bigbrowndog]

Travis at MGM told me to make sure the flipper is "flat" with the popper if there is tilt it will throw the bird elsewhere than straight up, also to place the bird dome up.

trapr

[Scout454]

We built a cup out of cardboard around the foam pads at Quantico and eliminated the problem. Can take pix but not for a couple of weeks (they're locked up at the base).

We removed the pad, put the cup in place and re-installed the cup. It cradles the bird and they always launch the same way. Consistency is about 90% now.

[Religious Shooter]

The problem flipper at that stage had a worn and uneven (dented) pad --- the pad where you put the clay on top.

[dmshozer1]

Ok, listen up, as I have the solution to the clay bird popper problem. Really!
It has worked at our club for the past five years.
#-1, Mount the popper on its own base, we used three 2x6 planks screwed together with 2x4-s. Extend the center plank
so the clay bird pad is resting on it. This will give the bird the same exact launch every time!
#-2, Make a round disc out of the same or similar material that will fit up into the underside of the claybird.
Bolt it to the top of the square pad of the throwing arm. This holds the bird perfectly every time!
Brace up the front or back of the planks to throw the bird foreword. backward or straight up, your choice.
You do not have to stake the popper down.
Launch is just about perfect every time, both height and where the bird goes.
Drives me CRAZY to shoot matches where this problem has not been worked out.
One shooter gets a straight up, 20 feet high bird, next shooter. ME, will get a 10 foot high bird that i have to shoot in self defense because it is coming right at me!
Anyway,try it, you will like it.
Take care.

[dmshozer1]

Sorry, meant to add that the material that goes into the bottom of the bird is the same or similar to the existing square pad on the throwing arm pad.
Take care.

[kimel]

Pictures please!

[RiggerJJ]

Scout454, on Oct 25 2009, 08:59 PM, said:

We built a cup out of cardboard around the foam pads at Quantico and eliminated the problem. Can take pix but not for a couple of weeks (they're locked up at the base).

We removed the pad, put the cup in place and re-installed the cup. It cradles the bird and they always launch the same way. Consistency is about 90% now.

Mike is right, the clay bird needs a cup, or a smaller dome under the clay to keep the bird from shaking off or partially off the pad when the popper is hit and on its way down.

Our fix for the flippers is a totally seperate flipper that does not attach to the popper, and use a forward falling popper. The forward faller flips the bird over the popper away from the shooter, and the seperating the popper from the flipper keeps the bird in place until the popper hits the flipper.
And for those that may say the bird will get hit before flipping or get splatter from the popper; our experience is they work just fine. Just put a no-shoot plate in front of the bird to keep the bird virgin until its airborne.

jj

[tgibson]

bigbrowndog, on Oct 25 2009, 08:58 PM, said:

Travis at MGM told me to make sure the flipper is "flat" with the popper if there is tilt it will throw the bird elsewhere than straight up, also to place the bird dome up.

trapr

This is just right. I love the idea of the smaller pad underneath the clay. I'm going to try and make those changes in the next couple of weeks! Make sure the popper and the pigeon flipper are all LEVEL. NOT FLAT. There is a difference! I would be happy to discuss this with anyone who needs an explenation. Please feel free to call me any time. 888.767.7371

Adios,
TG

[Larry LeBeau]

tgibson, on Oct 26 2009, 08:39 PM, said:

bigbrowndog, on Oct 25 2009, 08:58 PM, said:

Travis at MGM told me to make sure the flipper is "flat" with the popper if there is tilt it will throw the bird elsewhere than straight up, also to place the bird dome up.

trapr

This is just right. I love the idea of the smaller pad underneath the clay. I'm going to try and make those changes in the next couple of weeks! Make sure the popper and the pigeon flipper are all LEVEL. NOT FLAT. There is a difference! I would be happy to discuss this with anyone who needs an explenation. Please feel free to call me any time. 888.767.7371

Adios,
TG

When you get some of these new pads PM me cause I will buy 6 and start becoming an expert on flippers......

[dennisw1mac]

LeBeau, that will make two, drinking beer and flippers; being an expert at, that is. I don't think that the flippers at the nats were so mysterious. The ones that went wild were caught by the wind. Without the wind, it all went well and consistent.

[jeremyp270]

dennisw1mac, on Oct 30 2009, 10:53 PM, said:

LeBeau, that will make two, drinking beer and flippers; being an expert at, that is. I don't think that the flippers at the nats were so mysterious. The ones that went wild were caught by the wind. Without the wind, it all went well and consistent.

I would have to disagree with the wind comment, I do not recall a tornado or rogue sandstorm when both clays zipped directly over my head and one actually hit the stage wall 20 feet behind me. Just an observation from one of the "wild flier" recipients. It was all good fun though, I think I have had Teel fly over my duck blind slower than that

[outerlimits]

jeremyp270, on Nov 2 2009, 03:51 PM, said:

dennisw1mac, on Oct 30 2009, 10:53 PM, said:

LeBeau, that will make two, drinking beer and flippers; being an expert at, that is. I don't think that the flippers at the nats were so mysterious. The ones that went wild were caught by the wind. Without the wind, it all went well and consistent.

I would have to disagree with the wind comment, I do not recall a tornado or rogue sandstorm when both clays zipped directly over my head and one actually hit the stage wall 20 feet behind me. Just an observation from one of the "wild flier" recipients. It was all good fun though, I think I have had Teel fly over my duck blind slower than that

i'll upload a video on utube tonight of one. i was behind the shooter with the camera and the clay landed at my feet. after the shooter we measured how far and it traveled 43 feet behind the shooter's location. the flipper was a good 26 feet in front of the shooter.

[gose]

I was standing behind Jeremy on that stage and there was no wind to talk about. Fortunately flippers are only NPMs in USPSA, had that been an outlaw match with a 10s penalty / miss, it would have hurt bad...
I don't want to see flippers go away, since they're a lot of fun, but I would definitely appreciate if someone could come up with a patented way to make them more consistent.

[dmshozer1]

gose, on Nov 2 2009, 05:05 PM, said:

I was standing behind Jeremy on that stage and there was no wind to talk about. Fortunately flippers are only NPMs in USPSA, had that been an outlaw match with a 10s penalty / miss, it would have hurt bad...
I don't want to see flippers go away, since they're a lot of fun, but I would definitely appreciate if someone could come up with a patented way to make them more consistent.

Guys,
I have described in the above post the absolute cure to make flippers consistent.
If you do as I described, it is the end of the problem! PERIOD!

[outerlimits]

here's that wild clay...an exception, but still wild.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Rvz2NeSmuXs

[jeremyp270]

outerlimits, on Nov 2 2009, 08:25 PM, said:

here's that wild clay...an exception, but still wild.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Rvz2NeSmuXs

Great example of one of those "wild clays", a little closer and that one might have got the camera! Say..........does it score if someone else breaks it for you?

[RiggerJJ]

dmshozer1, on Oct 26 2009, 07:24 AM, said:

Ok, listen up, as I have the solution to the clay bird popper problem. Really!
It has worked at our club for the past five years.
#-1, Mount the popper on its own base, we used three 2x6 planks screwed together with 2x4-s. Extend the center plank
so the clay bird pad is resting on it. This will give the bird the same exact launch every time!
#-2, Make a round disc out of the same or similar material that will fit up into the underside of the claybird.
Bolt it to the top of the square pad of the throwing arm. This holds the bird perfectly every time!
Brace up the front or back of the planks to throw the bird foreword. backward or straight up, your choice.
You do not have to stake the popper down.
Launch is just about perfect every time, both height and where the bird goes.
Drives me CRAZY to shoot matches where this problem has not been worked out.
One shooter gets a straight up, 20 feet high bird, next shooter. ME, will get a 10 foot high bird that i have to shoot in self defense because it is coming right at me!
Anyway,try it, you will like it.
Take care.

RiggerJJ, on Oct 26 2009, 02:26 PM, said:

Scout454, on Oct 25 2009, 08:59 PM, said:

We built a cup out of cardboard around the foam pads at Quantico and eliminated the problem. Can take pix but not for a couple of weeks (they're locked up at the base).

We removed the pad, put the cup in place and re-installed the cup. It cradles the bird and they always launch the same way. Consistency is about 90% now.

Mike is right, the clay bird needs a cup, or a smaller dome under the clay to keep the bird from shaking off or partially off the pad when the popper is hit and on its way down.

Our fix for the flippers is a totally seperate flipper that does not attach to the popper, and use a forward falling popper. The forward faller flips the bird over the popper away from the shooter, and seperating the popper from the flipper keeps the bird in place until the popper hits the flipper.
And for those that may say the bird will get hit before flipping or get splatter from the popper; our experience is they work just fine. Just put a no-shoot plate in front of the bird to keep the bird virgin until its airborne.

jj

there are at least two answers to the flipper problem posted here! and using forward falling poppers ENSURES that the bird will be thrown away from the shooter...

jj

[dmshozer1]

dmshozer1, on Oct 26 2009, 11:52 AM, said:

Sorry, meant to add that the material that goes into the bottom of the bird is the same or similar to the existing square pad on the throwing arm pad.
Take care.

Also, the planks are 1x6,sorry.

[tgibson]

We will be addressing this issue at our staff meeting this morning. Hope to have a fix by the end of the day. I'll get pictures/video as soon as I get back from the MGM/AMU Jr. Camp.
Adios,
TG

[Chris]

Travis,

Would it be possible to put an adjustment bolt/pad under the arm (or an adjustable pad for the popper to fall on) to limit the amount of throw in the arm? This way the impact on the arm can be adjusted and which would regulate the height/distance on the bird itself.

[tgibson]

Chris, on Nov 3 2009, 12:58 PM, said:

Travis,

Would it be possible to put an adjustment bolt/pad under the arm (or an adjustable pad for the popper to fall on) to limit the amount of throw in the arm? This way the impact on the arm can be adjusted and which would regulate the height/distance on the bird itself.

That is a good question. Here are my thoughts.
Yes it can be done. Does MGM want to try and manufacture and gaurantee this product? HECK NO!! Once you have seen one set up correctly and then DONE IT YOURSELF it is really pretty easy to do. With that being said, we get a ton of call from people asking about the very same issues brought up in this thread...it's throwing them too high..it's throwing them too low...they are going over my head...the clays are breaking...when I put 14 clays on the flipper, they don't fly as high as if I only put on one...you get my drift.
Something as simple as a 2x4 just behind the bumper that kept the popper from falling all the way down might help it. Sorry, but that is a can of worms we just don't want to get into!!
Adios,
TG

[Chris]

HAHA.. I get it, no problem.

[sargenv]

We ordered and received 8 of the MGM flippers.. The issue we have is that our berms are only so high. If we use full sized poppers to launch the clays, we find that the bird shot will likely leave the range and we don't need that. Initially we solved it by limiting to USP's to launch them. However I wanted to be able to use larger poppers as activators. Solution was to attach a weight opposite the pad where the clay rests. It doesn't need much is what I found. About a pound to a pound and a half was all that was needed to take some of the oomph out of the full sized popper. They now reliably launch the clays about 30 ft into the air which is about 3/4 of the way up our backstop berm (which measures 41'). I simply used a cast lead weight and drilled a hole in it to mount it to the flipper using an extended bolt.

[tgibson]

So I went out and made the modification to the clay holder by putting a smaller pad that would go up into the "cup" of the clay. We didn't break one single clay and with a full sixed pepper popper, they went about 45' high, but they ended up about 10 yards from the popper towards the shooter...which means 3 yards behind the shooter if the popper is at 7 yards. Still going to make a couple of changes and try again, but I think we are headed in the right direction. More in the next couple of weeks. I'm off to the Jr. Camp tomorrow AM!!!
Adios,
TG