[fastarget]

I had been loading Berrys 45 230gr RN for a while at the ave OAL of 1.256, with a .468 +/- 1 crimp.
That load seems to function quite well with no issues.......

I picked up some 185 gr RN hollow base Berrys 45 and loaded it to the same OAL and crimp but had failure to feed from a loaded mag, or several different loaded mags.
I went back to the bench and reduced the OAL to the ave of 1.253........tested a couple of rounds dry from a loaded mag and it seemed to function well. Is my crimp wrong, I will take some out to shoot them, but I noticed the rounds I did not shoot had reduced AOL, from 1.253 to 1.232............

The 230 gr went from 1.256 to 1.243. Is this to be expected? what is the deal with the Berrys.

[Guy Neill]

Some degree of bullet setback will occur - at least with repeated chambering. If extreme it can drive up pressure and is to be avoided.

Your crimp seems very heavy, but it depends on the expander diameter and the bullet diameter. Are the new bullets the same diameter as the old?

However, two things may be contributing to the misfeeds. One is that the bullet profile is not quite the same as the old one, requiring the new OAL to obtain reliable function, or the bullet setback is robbing the slide of speed/power, resulting in the malfunction.

If the new OAL is working, it seems easiest to go with it for the new bullet, but it seems too little a difference to be the real solution since bullet variations will amount to as much change.

Guy

[fastarget]

Hello Guy,

Thank you for the info, should I be easy off on the crimp, I had been around .470 but tightened it a bit since occasionally with a new loaded mag, I could see the slide pushing the loaded cartridge into the ramp and pushing the bullet into the case before chambering, actually creating a Jam.

The two bullets from Berrys almost look like the same profile but it may not be.

[wide45]

Quote

...I noticed the rounds I did not shoot had reduced AOL, from 1.253 to 1.232............

This is your problem. It's called setback. When the rounds collapse, it's causing the slide to stop. It's also dangerous in that the shorter oal will raise pressure, and you have no control how short they get.

Very likely the bullets are undersize. It's a common problem with plated bullets.

[fastarget]

I took the setback bullets apart, they show a pretty good crimp line and constriction.
Is it something special I should do with a Berrys hollow base round nose bullet???
I just ran twenty of them and the OAL is ave 1.254, crimp is .468...........

[Guy Neill]

If you are seeing more setback with less crimp, then it would not be good to reduce the crimp.

What you may want to investigate is the diameter of the expander ball - in comparison to the bullet diameter. The crimp should not be the primary means of preventing setback. The case walls should grip the bullet. The expander ball should be some 0.002" smaller than the bullet diameter, in general.

Case wall thickness is also a factor with respect to the sizer diameter. Cases with thinner walls will not offer as much grip on the bullet - dependent on the various diameters.

Is there a difference in the diameters between the 230gr bullets and the 185gr? Your problem sounds like the 185gr may be slightly smaller.

Guy

[calishootr]

the problem is with the plated bullets, chances are if you took a handfull of em and miked em, you will not find 3 or 4 w/ the same diameter, and who knows ifthey arefromthe same lot of plating??? some may have more, and some may have barely any...back in the day, i made the switch from lead to plated because i got tired scraping out my comps...was sold some plated at a screaming price, but was told they were 'lightly' plated...yeah meaning therifling will score the plating and it will come off in flight downrange and accuracy will suffer....

I know its more expensive, and pardon the pun, but bitethe bullet and get some jacketed to solve the problem

[Justsomeguy]

The problem is not with the crimp, but rather with the hollow based bullet I would think. Generally it is neck tension and not crimp which keeps a bullet from being set back in feeding. If the case is properly sized it should have enough tension on the part of the bullet that is in the case to keep it from moving during the loading cycle. The hollow base bullet is weaker in compression than a solid core bullet at the base, and so it is probably collapsing some... that is, it is being resized during the reloading process and the case cannot grip it tightly enough to keep the OAL during the feeding cycle as it bounces into the feed ramp and up into the barrel. This is compounded by the fact it is a lighter bullet loaded to the same OAL as a heavier bullet with a solid base, and so only a small portion of it is contained by the case, and that portion is hollow. Hopefully, whatever dies you are using are returning the cases to the appropriate size before bullet insertion, but some are a little oversized and do not return the case to factory spec. However, if they do return the case to the proper dimension, the hollow base bullet is suspect for the reason mentioned above. Plated bullets have very soft cores... almost pure lead, and the thin plating is not enough to keep the hollow base bullet from resizing as it is inserted into the case.

[fastarget]

Thank you, I suspected the hollow base has something to do with it when I took a couple apart that area is pretty constricted and there is a visible ring, the whole thing inside the case was resized. I have measured the last 20 and they are consistent, the dillon dies on my 650 are doing a good job. I am thinking shorten the OAL a bit more to 1.250 to allow more of the bullet to be gripped by the case, what do you think???

[wide45]

The difference between 1.256" and 1.250" is .005" or 5 thousandths. That's about the thickness of a sheet of notepaper. It's a miniscule change that won't make a bit of difference.

[fastarget]

ok winter storm in progress so no shooting,,,,,but I combined all of you gents input, changed the belling a bit, crimp a little and oal a little............belling is at .454 ID, crimp is at .4695-.470........and OAL ave. 1.256-1.259 ..........measured a number of bullets and they all measure .451-.452
These are the changes so far , very cold 39 degrees in the detached garage.

[wide45]

Quick test you can do without actually chambering rounds in the gun;

Grab a loaded round, and shove the bullet end against your bench. You should be able to lean on it pretty hard without any loss of OAL.