[Boats]

Searched but don't see a simple answer to this one.

What is the disadvantage to using a pump shotgun score wise. anybody shoot them well in matches compared to Auto Shooters ? Buddy of mine and I shoot IDPA but never the Side Shotgun matches. He has a M 12 Riot gun US issue. I have an old M 12 with a 26 inch barrel and poly choke. Both guns are reliable, we have shot pumps for a long time, not likely to short stroke and can reload fairly well. Our club requires low brass shot not over 7 1/2 low recoil shells.

Boats

[abn-rgr]

Tate Moots runs a pump gun as fast or faster than most guys run semi's.

[ChuckS]

Boats, on Oct 22 2009, 05:40 AM, said:

Searched but don't see a simple answer to this one.

What is the disadvantage to using a pump shotgun score wise. anybody shoot them well in matches compared to Auto Shooters ? Buddy of mine and I shoot IDPA but never the Side Shotgun matches. He has a M 12 Riot gun US issue. I have an old M 12 with a 26 inch barrel and poly choke. Both guns are reliable, we have shot pumps for a long time, not likely to short stroke and can reload fairly well. Our club requires low brass shot not over 7 1/2 low recoil shells.

Boats

Why not just try it and see?

[JeffWard]

Disadvantages: 1) You gotta pump it! The simple action of pumping throws off the sights, and slows follow up shots. 2) Gas operated loading systems absorb recoil!

Advantage: If you have a stage where you may need to insert a slug somewhere in the middle, but you're not sure where... the pump gun is easy!

Most guys at the top of the port run autos because they recoil much softer, and because they just shoot/transition faster. Shooting 50-70 rounds through a pump-gun, vs. 50-70 through an auto... Your shoulder will feel MUCH better the next day with the auto!

Jeff

This post has been edited by JeffWard: 22 October 2009 - 06:32 AM

[diablodawg]

Seen Pat Kelly smoke lots of guys with a pump gun- and a 7 shot unchoked winchester at that.

[shooter steve]

There are some people out there who can really shoot a pump, but for the average guy (or girl), the auto will be faster and smoother. I feel the auto is the best way for most to go. With that being said, when you watch someone who is truly a master at the pump shotgun, it is incredible! To watch some of the cowboy shooters who are really good, do their reloads is so cool. I feel that it would take a lot more work and practice to get to that level with a pump, and so I just figured out why I like auto's better...I'm just LAZY!

[Boats]

Thanks all

Match this Sat am watching only to get the extra stuff coverd first, course of fire distances ammo loaders etc. Next one We are going to shoot with the pump guns just to see how it goes.

No doubt pure mechanical efficiency autos are better for follow up shots and less to think about. Some are softer too, gas guns, don't see how a blow back action is much softer than a locked breech though. Old Browning Auto 5's kick just like a Model 12 to my shoulder. My military and hunting experience is all pumps and have seen lots of auto shotgun jams, will be watching to see what will run and what will not. If we take up the matches serious Auto is certainly the way to go, and it looks like the Bennelli is the gun to use.

I did not ask but one more, what about our sights, just a muzzle bead, compared to one of the High Tech guns like a Bennelli that has adjustable rifle style. Going to cost us ?

Boats

[bigbrowndog]

unless you are shooting slugs your stock sight will be fine, a Fiber optic front would be a good upgrade though.

a reliable pump gun can still be short stroked, a reliable auto just works, it simply removes one variable from the oops factor. I have seen top pump guys short stroke their gun, and have done it myself. there are pluses and minuses to the pump/auto debate, but currently at most matches there are classes for pump SG's and classes for auto SG's so there is no need to compete against each other.

Trapr

[Bryan 45]

I shoot in Heavy Metal typically, and the only time I've had issues with my pump is in akward positions. If you're prone, or laying on one side or another, you may have to shift position slightly just to get it back into action. If the targets are spread out, you won't give up much time to the autos in shot-to-shot.

[richbug]

Another advantage, at least for me, is that the 500/590 Mossbergs have a big gaping hole instead of a loading gate. For me it makes a difference. Easy to shove multiple shells in the tube in one motion.

[diablodawg]

richbug, on Oct 22 2009, 04:15 PM, said:

Another advantage, at least for me, is that the 500/590 Mossbergs have a big gaping hole instead of a loading gate. For me it makes a difference. Easy to shove multiple shells in the tube in one motion.

I liked this about my 590 as well... until I got a Benelli Supernova and can load two at a time- talk about smokin' reloads.

[Boats]

Went to the match and watched. Could see no big disavantage to the pump except one. Not many people shooting them. Hot competiton was Auto so thats were you need to be if shooting for the game. I did see a lot of auto jams though, big advantage in the match if the gun will run. Other things I noticed, adjustable sights and chokes seem essential. I saw a whole lot of misses, short range patterns are small shot has to hit the target. Reloads have to be good too. All kinds of loading methods and ways to carry shells, some did not work well others were smooth and fast. Thing I have to make my mind up on is strong or weak hand loads.

Think I am going to give it a try.

Boats

[shooter steve]

Hey Boats, one thing to consider about the reloads, most of us have been shooting shotgun a while. You know, dove hunting or shooting skeet and stuff. The strong hand reload is natural to most, but the weak hand reload is this goofy thing that is clumsy and can be frustrating. Make sure that you have time to practice if you decide to go weak hand. It is the fastest reload, but it does take more work to get right. Just something to think about before you drop the cash on equipment. Hmmm... Boats and Va Beach...wonder if you spend much time at Little Creek? An old ex GM/EOD is just letting his mind wander.

[Boats]

Shooter Steve,

You are right almost 50 years of strong hand loading pump guns. Of course Handguns I load Revolvers Strong hand, Autos Weak hand. Cast Bait Casters and Fly Rods right and switch to Left to wind the reels. Casting and winding Spinners Right handed and don't even think about the changes. Pick up a rod and throw no matter what it is. It's all what you get used too. I am thinking shotgun load it quick from a side saddle strong hand and if more are needed or more time available for the load get them off a strong side belt mounted stripper shell holder. I don't think I can get used to a Bandoleer.

I suspect I am going to be a lot faster with few fumbles strong hand and probably not going to put the time required into learning Weak hand shell stuffing.

Little Creek, pretty good guess, only thing is our boats were painted White

Boats

[patrickbeijer]

I think it does not matter which hand you load as long as you can do your loads consistent ,the guy that won the European shotgun championships in standard in 2006 loads from his arm and side sadlle ( i think Kurt also was there) the same guy (Raine Peltokoski) came in 3 place this year at the European championships.

[Boats]

Am a 1 match watching expert so take my comments accordingly. What I saw was a whole lot of fumbles loading, no doubt at the top level speed is critical, however at the competitor level not screwing up seems to be key. On the Sights and chokes. I saw a whole lot of misses too. Short range, shotguns don't have much pattern and the targets are small. I am convinced the gun needs to be zeroed on target and choked for the anticipated range. This match the run of the mill competitor would have done much better with a 1st shot higher hit ratio even at the expense of slower target acquisition. Again top level no doubt speed is key.

Boats

This post has been edited by Boats: 26 October 2009 - 04:50 AM

[bigbrowndog]

Boats,..... no matter the level, "not missing" is the KEY, you simply have to get ammo back into the gun fast and if you miss and have to shoot and load another round that eats up your time.

Trapr

[kurtm]

The faster you load, the more time you can take to aim, the more you aim the less you have to load. Or you could just aim for being loaded KurtM

[kellyn]

Boats, on Oct 22 2009, 05:40 AM, said:

Searched but don't see a simple answer to this one.

What is the disadvantage to using a pump shotgun score wise. anybody shoot them well in matches compared to Auto Shooters ? Buddy of mine and I shoot IDPA but never the Side Shotgun matches. He has a M 12 Riot gun US issue. I have an old M 12 with a 26 inch barrel and poly choke.
Boats

Get out there with your pump gun and shoot some matches. If you really get into it you may want to shift over to a semi. You do not need adjustable sights -I don't have them.

While semi auto shotguns are less than perfectly reliable (if you say you have a 100 % reliable semi auto, you have not shot it that much!), they are more competitive than pumps as they simply cycle faster and are easier to use in contorted positions.

[kp110477]

I can cycle my Remington 870 faster than an auto-loader (go ahead... call BULL$#!%). I didn't realize how fast I could jack the pump until I went to the skeet range and one of the guys let me use his auto loader... felt like I was waiting for it to cycle. I don't think I'd ever NOT have a Remington 870 (I have 2 right now). I may pick up an auto-loader for $#!%$ and giggles, but when I NEED a gun to run, nothing like an 870... just don't put those cheap-$#!% Federal rounds through it and keep it well maintained and oiled (just like any other gun).