[Field]

i am shooting an xdm 9mm and for a while was using 124g montana gold fmj with 5.8-6g of HS-6 to great success

i loaded some 147g cmj montana gold with 5.3g of HS-6 and it worked very reliably.

i started to notice a trend where from looking at my Hornady reloading manual i need to use the maximum powder charge or higher in order to have reliable slide cycling with my handgun so i never get any jams or stovepipes or cases not getting ejected.

Then..I ran out of HS-6. I bought some Hodgedon Universal. I look on thier website and it says for 147g 9mm to use 3.3g "maximum" charge to produce a supposed 870fps avg. which 870fps by itself is not that zippy.

ok...so i load a few rounds with the recommended maximum charge.


I get mouse fart-like shots which fail to cycle the slide hardly at all. Every used case stays stuck in the chamber. This is with a completely cleaned and oiled handgun (xdm9)

do they have any websites that have charge recommendations for NON LABRATORY SETTINGS? seriously. i think i might have to bump the charge up quite a bit maybe almost to 4g but frankly i just wonder sometimes.

This post has been edited by Field: 21 October 2009 - 02:17 PM

[G-ManBart]

Field, on Oct 21 2009, 05:16 PM, said:

do they have any websites that have charge recommendations for NON LABRATORY SETTINGS? seriously. i think i might have to bump the charge up quite a bit maybe almost to 4g but frankly i just wonder sometimes.

The short answer is no, they don't. The SAAMI maximum pressure is all you're ever going to see a manufacturer list or recommend. Going over that might work the gun, but it's going to be into the +P (or more) territory and not necessarily a great idea.

The fact that Universal is much faster means you'll reach maximum pressures with far smaller charges. Fast powders plus heavy bullets equal high pressures even if the velocity isn't high and the overall combination won't cycle the gun. It's possible the barrel on your gun is on the slow side and you're not even getting the 870fps the book lists (check what barrel length they used) and it's much lighter than the 127PF you think you might be getting. With 147gr bullets plenty of folks have to run 130+PF to get the gun to cycle properly.

You're probably better off trying a different powder or seeing if the Universal will cycle the gun with lighter bullets and heavier charges. R,

[atbarr]

Ok dumb question. What about a lighter recoil spring?

Be gentle please,

A.T.

[G-ManBart]

atbarr, on Oct 21 2009, 08:30 PM, said:

Ok dumb question. What about a lighter recoil spring?

Be gentle please,

A.T.

Very well might work....

[Field]

i already had the 18lb spring replaced with a 16lb spring before this

[CocoBolo]

Could I suggest TiteGroup push it to 929 with 5,000 less psi. I have only used HS6 in Open Gun loads its about the same burn rate as IMR7625 another popular open powder. TiteGroup is a little cleaner than HS6 but when it gets cold out the loads get hotter.

VV N320 is another good choice nothing bad about the powder but the price. Check their load data.

I use Universal in my 45 for deer hunting 230 JHP push the PF to 197 and run a heavy recoil spring, knocks them dead.

Lots of folks run 147's so there should be some pet loads on this forum.

[scheirere]

As G-ManBart mentioned, your barrel/gun may be on the slow side and even with a 3.3 gr. charge, may not be making the listed pressure and velocity. The other variable is the bullet seating depth/overall length. That can have a noticable impact on pressures and thus velocities. Couple things to try here. First, get a chrono or get with someone who has one. Load up some shells at 3.3, 3.4, 3.5, 3.6 and 3.7grains. Starting with the 3.3 grain loads, see what velocity you get. Go up the line until your velocity is at or near the 870 fps the manufacturer lists. All things equal, if your around 870 fps, your around the pressures listed. Most modern firearms will take more than standard 9x19 pressures but don't get carried away. I've run 10's of thousands of 9x19 rounds from my Glock 34 that pushed a 147 gr. bullet to about 905 fps. And Univerals Clays was the driving force behind the vast majority of them. My most recent load was a Montana Gold Bullet, 147 gr. CMJ at 1.100" ahead of 3.6 gr. of Univ. Clays, lit by Win. small pistol primers. Again, typical velocity was ~905-910 fps.

One thing I did notice about Univ. Clays is that it doesn't like a really light powder charge. I couldn't get it to work for .40 minor loads with a 155 gr. bullet. Anywhere near a 135 pf load with and I'd get similar problems to what you described. Dump in more powder and things came around.

[superdude]

the big difference in your example is the burn rate/powder charge weight of the gunpowder. Universal is a little faster burning powder than HS-6, but the real difference is the powder charge weight. light charge weights produce less gas volume, and therefore less recoil, than heavy charge weights which produces more gas and more recoil. the difference in recoil can be very significant. slower powders are also more likely to give you higher velocities which likely factors into the calculation. see the link below for a (hopefully) more complete explanation. there are 2 possible ways to fix the problem. use a slower powder with a heavier charge weight to produce more gas/recoil, or try a lighter recoil spring. or both!

http://www.38super.n...ges/Recoil.html