[SinistralRifleman]

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=dipghcp929I

I elected to make this video after numerous internet debates.

Thesis: The AR15 is more reliable in desert environments than commonly believed.

The Test: 4 repetitions of burying the rifle and firing 30 rounds, Shoot the match with the rifle without cleaning, Bury in the sand one more time with dust cover open and fire 30 rounds

Results: No malfunctions.

Video from camera angle 2 will be uploaded once I get a program that can edit quicktime files.

[HRider]

Cool test. What kind of lube were you running in it?
I shot a match last year where we were transported from one end of the range to the other on a mesh bottomed trailer. The road was clay that had a talcum powder like dust on top of it from several weeks without rain and heavy equipment traffic. Of course our rifles were locked open (and flagged). By the time we arrived at the other end of the range (approx 1/2 mile), our rifles (and us) were covered with dust. Only the people that were running their rifles dripping wet had any problems at all, then it was only the first couple of rounds.
They are far more reliable than alot of people will give them credit for.
Hurley

[SinistralRifleman]

I just use rem oil and CLP most of the time and I generally run it pretty wet

[adweisbe]

Supposedly the dust in some areas is a whole different kind of beast. I wouldn't know personally. Still very confidence inspiring.

[G-ManBart]

Cool stuff!

I just love when folks have the guts to put stuff on video. Funny how some of the debating stops right there!

[SinistralRifleman]

the debate now is that I didn't leave the dust cover open, that shooting prone and roll over prone at the match didn't kick up THAT much dirt, and that it was ejection port down for the final segment when it was open....LOL some people will never be happy.

[Chris Conley]

"Some people will never be happy" You got that right. By the way, nice video.

Chris C.

[P.Pres]

Awsome test !! Thats kind of what I expected to happen.


Your gonna piss off alot of internet ninjas with this one !!

This post has been edited by P.Pres: 19 October 2009 - 09:22 AM

[SinistralRifleman]

dust cover open and running over test to be posted later...

[Bryan 45]

I saw the posts over on BARF15.com about the dust cover. It's called the DUST COVER for a reason. Bunch of armchair commandos.......

I like the test, Russell. Good video.

[raz-0]

The thing that bothers me about a lot of the debate is that everyone just seems to accept that you could just "fill your ak with sand" and it would run..

Yeah, lets see one of them step up and try it. "loosey-goosey" or not, I'm guess ing too much crap in your AK is just as bad as in anything else.

One will note that most of the new op-rod "ar-replacement" designs out there that score better in harsh environment testing have one thing in common. No, not the op-rod, but the reciprocating dust cover that you don't have to snap back in place.

[SinistralRifleman]

Thesis: The AR15 rifle is more reliable than people believe it to be.

The Test:
Part 1: Dust cover open and up, cover the rifle in sand and run 5 magazines through it.
Part 2: No cleaning conducted after part 1, Dust cover open and up, cover the rifle in sand and run it over with a Jeep, then run a magazine through it.

Results:
Part 1: The rifle functioned flawlessy with no malfunctions. The action was somewhat sluggish towards the end as oil cooked off and more dirt entered the action.

Part 2: The rifle did suffer two malfunctions that required combat racking, but otherwise ran. All lubrication was cooked off and there was sand in the action. The larger particles; small rocks, prevents the bolt from going all the way into battery twice. I honestly did not expect it to work at all at this point.

The CAV-15 receiver and C4 handguards survived without damaged. The CMMG upper was not damaged aside from finish wear.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=e8SSQ_wIG4o

[SinistralRifleman]

Thesis: The AK type rifle is more reliable than AR15 type rifles

The Test: Fire one mag to confirm function, load rifle and bury in sand with dust cover/safety down, fire one magazine, repeat.

Results: The open areas of the AK type rifle allow dirt/dust to get into the action in large quantities, preventing them fire control from functioning. While a gas piston MAY be more reliable, the AKs fire control are more prone to outside fouling than those of an AR15

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Lo5WhVvtYak

[Bryan 45]

But, the AK was never designed to be run in the fine Arizona sand. That's not fair!

That's awesome, Bro.

[L-10_shooter]

That is some good stuff. I thought the AK would last longer that that. Great tests and thanks for putting the two rifles through some punishment. I would not have done that to any of my guns personally.

[Loves2Shoot]

Since you are into the hardcore testing, you should send me a barrel, and BCG to DiamondBLACK coat and then you can run it much drier and the oil won't be there to collect the dirt.

This post has been edited by Loves2Shoot: 19 October 2009 - 04:14 PM

[G-ManBart]

SinistralRifleman, on Oct 18 2009, 11:30 PM, said:

the debate now is that I didn't leave the dust cover open, that shooting prone and roll over prone at the match didn't kick up THAT much dirt, and that it was ejection port down for the final segment when it was open....LOL some people will never be happy.

When I watched that, I just KNEW they were gonna jump all over the dust cover issue! Sheesh...

[P.Pres]

SinistralRifleman, on Oct 19 2009, 12:43 PM, said:

Thesis: The AK type rifle is more reliable than AR15 type rifles

The Test: Fire one mag to confirm function, load rifle and bury in sand with dust cover/safety down, fire one magazine, repeat.

Results: The open areas of the AK type rifle allow dirt/dust to get into the action in large quantities, preventing them fire control from functioning. While a gas piston MAY be more reliable, the AKs fire control are more prone to outside fouling than those of an AR15

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Lo5WhVvtYak

Now thats "really" going to piss off the SHTF crowd !!

It never did occur to me that there is a giant hole in the side of the reciever ?? I just bought the extream
reliability stories like everyone else ??

[ALBY]

awesome.

these guns are amazing.

[SinistralRifleman]

the dissent on the other forums has moved away from my AR test being too lame to all the excuses as to why the AK didn't work.

Apparently having the dust cover open on the AR is required, but we should have left the dust cover/safety on the AK closed L-O-L

[P.Pres]

SinistralRifleman, on Oct 19 2009, 06:11 PM, said:

the dissent on the other forums has moved away from my AR test being too lame to all the excuses as to why the AK didn't work.

Apparently having the dust cover open on the AR is required, but we should have left the dust cover/safety on the AK closed L-O-L

This post has been edited by P.Pres: 19 October 2009 - 05:16 PM

[kgunz11]

adweisbe, on Oct 18 2009, 10:50 PM, said:

Supposedly the dust in some areas is a whole different kind of beast. I wouldn't know personally. Still very confidence inspiring.

+1 to that. The sand in some areas of the world can cause issues. In the current theater of operations, the baby powder fine sand/dust can wreak havoc. Most soldiers in that current AO can attest to that. Maybe some of those you are having the debate with have been subjected to that.

[SinistralRifleman]

My argument is not that it is impossible for the AR15/M16 to malfunction in combat conditions, only that it is more reliable than people believe it to be.

Parma, ID has some nice moon dust type sand. Unfortunately testing there will have to wait until June 2010.

[P.Pres]

SinistralRifleman, on Oct 19 2009, 06:45 PM, said:

My argument is not that it is impossible for the AR15/M16 to malfunction in combat conditions, only that it is more reliable than people believe it to be.

Parma, ID has some nice moon dust type sand. Unfortunately testing there will have to wait until June 2010.

Russel, the Mojave desert or lower Nevada have some sand dunes ?? Az's decomposed granite gives the
non believer's some wiggle room (not much). How about Home Depot, they have play sand, mortar, aluminum oxide, ??

[GentlemanJim]

Nice tests Russel

The AK crowd are almost cultish...No amount of factual data will change their minds.

Every aspect of the AK is just plain crude...its durable and very functional but not a precision instrument.
The AR15 family is a precision instrument...from fit to metalurgy
When every part is virtually interchangable...you know you have some pretty close numbers

Soo......when are you going to bury some shotguns
Jim