[JThompson]

I have a question... If a plate was missed and the shooter goes back after striking the stop plate, makes up the shot and then hits the stop again... How do you score it? You give him/her the penalty and run the clock back or just give them the penalty and use whatever time is there from the last shot?

Thnx

JT

This post has been edited by JThompson: 15 October 2009 - 09:56 PM

[Will Abrahams]

As i understand it... if the shooter goes back and makes up the plate missed, then re-shoots the stop plate there is no penalty. The time stops when he re-shoots the stop plate.

[Flexmoney]

Locally, we always ran it with a timer. So, the time stops on the last shot. However, the hits stop when the stop plate is hit.

So, they get the miss...and keep on making their time worse.

[JThompson]

Flexmoney, on Oct 15 2009, 11:26 PM, said:

Locally, we always ran it with a timer. So, the time stops on the last shot. However, the hits stop when the stop plate is hit.

So, they get the miss...and keep on making their time worse.

That's how I understand it too Flex... I'd like to see something in writing on it, but barring that, I'm going with the above....

[Fireant]

From my understanding and shooting the GA state match is the time stops on the first hit of the stop plate. So, you run the timer back to that shot, give them that time then the penalty. Don't ask me how I know they score it that way. That also works the same for a shooter that has a bad run and shoots the stop plate say, I don't know 5 or 6 more times in fustration. They run the timer back to the first hit on the stop plate. Steel challenge is very and I mean very shooter friendly.

[tad]

The time stops on the first hit on the stop plate. Run the timer back to that shot. Shooter has 1 miss in this case!

[Will Abrahams]

im sorry i thought the way we ran them at my local club was per SCSA rules (with shot timer scoring). Apparently its not. i guess i will have to bring this up at the next match...

sorry about that

[JThompson]

It seems like I'm not the only one that isn't sure about this one.

JT

[Fireant]

Well the USPSA rules always say the COF ends with the last shot fired. I think we get used to that and apply it most of the time. The Steel Challenge rules say the run is over when the stop plate is hit. So, if you shoot 3 plates then the stop plate and back to the missed plate and the stop plate again, your run was over the first time you hit the stop plate. You can't unhit it. Just like sometimes in a local USPSA match someone will just empty the last mag into the last target/berm in fustrationfor a bad run, if one of those shots hits the stop plate that is the end of the run. Back the timer up and figure out the time( also give the shooter a good talking to).

[Rocket35]

Some clarification would be helpful but this is what I found with policy and procedures.


- All scoring for an individual string of fire ceases when the stop plate is hit.
- All misses (primary targets left un-hit once the stop plate has been struck) will be scored
with a three-second penalty each.

Sounds like to me that you own any and all missed targets as soon as you hit the stop plate the first time.

[Nik Habicht]

Fireant, on Oct 16 2009, 11:38 AM, said:

Back the timer up and figure out the time( also give the shooter a good talking to).

Why give the shooter a good talking to? Mistakes happen. I see someone hit the stop early at almost every steel match; and usually the shooter tries to work their out of it, before they realize that it's run over.....

I'd have to look at the rules to be sure, but locally we've backed the timer up to the time of first stop plate hit and then assessed misses....

[JThompson]

Rocket35, on Oct 16 2009, 09:46 AM, said:

Some clarification would be helpful but this is what I found with policy and procedures.


- All scoring for an individual string of fire ceases when the stop plate is hit.
- All misses (primary targets left un-hit once the stop plate has been struck) will be scored
with a three-second penalty each.

Sounds like to me that you own any and all missed targets as soon as you hit the stop plate the first time.

The more I think about it the more I agree with backing the timer up to the stop plate time, but it might be a good idea to address this in the rules for consistency. The more black/white it is the better.

[Rocket35]

JThompson, on Oct 17 2009, 06:35 AM, said:

Rocket35, on Oct 16 2009, 09:46 AM, said:

Some clarification would be helpful but this is what I found with policy and procedures.


- All scoring for an individual string of fire ceases when the stop plate is hit.
- All misses (primary targets left un-hit once the stop plate has been struck) will be scored
with a three-second penalty each.

Sounds like to me that you own any and all missed targets as soon as you hit the stop plate the first time.

The more I think about it the more I agree with backing the timer up to the stop plate time, but it might be a good idea to address this in the rules for consistency. The more black/white it is the better.

That was taken from the Policies and Procedures manual on the SCSA website.

http://steelchalleng...%20dist4-24.pdf

[itchy]

Run time stops on the first impact on stop plate. Any plates not hit before the stop plate are misses. (During the World Shoot, the stop plate stops the timer, so you can't go back and pick up missed plates after the stop plate.)

Seiichi

[Fireant]

Nik Habicht, on Oct 17 2009, 10:34 AM, said:

Fireant, on Oct 16 2009, 11:38 AM, said:

Back the timer up and figure out the time( also give the shooter a good talking to).

Why give the shooter a good talking to? Mistakes happen. I see someone hit the stop early at almost every steel match; and usually the shooter tries to work their out of it, before they realize that it's run over.....

I'd have to look at the rules to be sure, but locally we've backed the timer up to the time of first stop plate hit and then assessed misses....

I'm not talking about someone that just hits the stop twice or anything, I'm talking about the shooter that drills the stop plate 5 or 6 times in fustration. The RO has to decide how many extra shoots have to be backed up on the timer. I'm also not talking about some one that hits the stop plate early.

[Nik Habicht]

Fireant, on Oct 18 2009, 07:13 PM, said:

Nik Habicht, on Oct 17 2009, 10:34 AM, said:

Fireant, on Oct 16 2009, 11:38 AM, said:

Back the timer up and figure out the time( also give the shooter a good talking to).

Why give the shooter a good talking to? Mistakes happen. I see someone hit the stop early at almost every steel match; and usually the shooter tries to work their out of it, before they realize that it's run over.....

I'd have to look at the rules to be sure, but locally we've backed the timer up to the time of first stop plate hit and then assessed misses....

I'm not talking about someone that just hits the stop twice or anything, I'm talking about the shooter that drills the stop plate 5 or 6 times in fustration. The RO has to decide how many extra shoots have to be backed up on the timer. I'm also not talking about some one that hits the stop plate early.

Ah! Got it.....

....I was a little confused before....

[dmshozer1]

Using a timer on a very fast shooter, I can see a problem calling what shot hit the stop plate.
I agree with the process but as a long time shooter and RO, I can see a nose to nose disagreement
happening! Been there, done that.
I guess that is the reason there is a electronic stop plate in the big matches.
Take care.

[raz-0]

dmshozer1, on Oct 20 2009, 09:17 AM, said:

Using a timer on a very fast shooter, I can see a problem calling what shot hit the stop plate.
I agree with the process but as a long time shooter and RO, I can see a nose to nose disagreement
happening! Been there, done that.
I guess that is the reason there is a electronic stop plate in the big matches.
Take care.

We used to allow backing up the timer. A LOT of people would hammer the stop plate with multiple rounds. We no longer back up the timer. We try to be as shooter friendly as possible, but the first year we did this, we shaved nearly 40 minutes off getting the first session of the day through. Went from about 4 hours to less than 3.5, and reduced backup problems.

Also, after a lot fo debate, we determined that although it sounds kind of hard-assed, it was more friendly to joe random shooter. From our perspective, it was clear some shooters were trying to muddy the waters and argue away shots that should legitimately count under any interpretation of the rules. Letting them cheat their times down is not friendly to the shooters that don't cheat. Letting them argue incessantly and piss off the volunteer ROs so they were cranky for every shooter later in the day was not friendly to the other shooters. And finally, letting them drag out the day so other shooters were starting the afternoon sessions late and finishing late was not friendly to those shooters.


Oddly enough, newbies who couldn't tell they had hit the plate in one go didn't care, experienced shooters who were POed at their run knew they were throwing it away or just screwing themselves, and cheaters bitch and moan a lot, but come back and try to cheat their way to a better score with whatever tools are left available to them. Some of the gamers got a bit pissed, but we told them to talk to the cheaters and to stay to the end of the match to help, which pretty much shuts them up.

The pissed off shooter is rarely the only shooter impacted by a decision. Their complaints have to be weighed in context.

[ong45]

raz-0, on Oct 20 2009, 11:44 AM, said:

dmshozer1, on Oct 20 2009, 09:17 AM, said:

Using a timer on a very fast shooter, I can see a problem calling what shot hit the stop plate.
I agree with the process but as a long time shooter and RO, I can see a nose to nose disagreement
happening! Been there, done that.
I guess that is the reason there is a electronic stop plate in the big matches.
Take care.

We used to allow backing up the timer. A LOT of people would hammer the stop plate with multiple rounds. We no longer back up the timer. We try to be as shooter friendly as possible, but the first year we did this, we shaved nearly 40 minutes off getting the first session of the day through. Went from about 4 hours to less than 3.5, and reduced backup problems.

Letting them cheat their times down is not friendly to the shooters that don't cheat. Letting them argue incessantly and piss off the volunteer ROs so they were cranky for every shooter later in the day was not friendly to the other shooters. And finally, letting them drag out the day so other shooters were starting the afternoon sessions late and finishing late was not friendly to those shooters.

The pissed off shooter is rarely the only shooter impacted by a decision. Their complaints have to be weighed in context.

Agree 100 %
I figure if you want to throw a hissy fit and run your gun dry on the stop plate you can just own the time, just like an ipsc stage
If don't mind backing up the timer for 1 shot every so often.

[mikegot38]

JThompson, on Oct 16 2009, 01:08 AM, said:

Flexmoney, on Oct 15 2009, 11:26 PM, said:

Locally, we always ran it with a timer. So, the time stops on the last shot. However, the hits stop when the stop plate is hit.

So, they get the miss...and keep on making their time worse.

That's how I understand it too Flex... I'd like to see something in writing on it, but barring that, I'm going with the above....

That is how we do it.