[mort]

I really stink at this perticular stage: Area 4 Standards.
It has three fixed time 6 second strings.
First String: draw, six shots at one metric target 150 ft away-free style.
Second String: draw, six shots at one metric target 105 ft away- strong hand only
Third String: draw, six shots at one metric target 60 ft away-strong hand only

While practicing the stage today in anticipation of a local match this weekend, I could only score around 12 points Total. (that's with minor PF scoring since I shoot production). That's a total of one A, two or three Cs, a D or two and the rest mikes. I have been shooting local matches for a year and I usually will place 15th out of 25 shooters, or around a C or D ranking.

But this Area 4 Standards stage has me scratching my head. I can consistantly draw and fire the first shot in 1.5 to1.8 secs leaving me with 4.5 to 4.2 secs to do the other five shots. When I shoot this fast, hits are almost non-existant. When I slow down and take only 3 shots, I can actually score some A and C zone hits. How should I approach this stage in the match?

I also shot this distance targets from the bench, and when I took my time (20+ secs a shot) I could get my point score up to 49 (out of 90 since I took 6 shots at the 3 targets, at different distances, so 18 shots, if they were all As would score 90). So the 4.25 inch barrel of a Smith & Wesson M&P9 can get a high score.

[mort]

This is the stage diagram:
http://www.uspsa.org...fiers/08-06.pdf

I have no experience shooting a fixed time stage, so I could use help with respect to that too.
Fixed time + super long distances =

P.S. Yeah,I know my spelling is bad.

[rupture]

I have this same classifier this weekend too. I did'nt realize it was timed until you pointed that out. This is gonna suck. What I'm going to do is aim for the bottom of the A zone and hammer it. Hopefully the muzzle rise will give me six holes from the bottom to top of the A zone. Again maybe a more experienced shooter can give some insight

[sperman]

Here's a little clue for you all:

Quote

9.2.4.4 Fixed Time courses of fire do not incur failure to shoot at or miss
penalties.

[Neomet]

For me it is a mental thing. Standards are the only classifiers where my focus is distracted by the "How much time do I have left?" garbage floating around in my head. The more I just shoot what I see and stop at the beep the better I manage this classifier.

[benos]

Neomet, on Oct 8 2009, 07:03 PM, said:

For me it is a mental thing. Standards are the only classifiers where my focus is distracted by the "How much time do I have left?" garbage floating around in my head. The more I just shoot what I see and stop at the beep the better I manage this classifier.

That's good advice.
be

[AlamoShooter]

I happen to like this one, its an "old School" skill set. I think its an important part to evaluate a -Complete shooter-

Learn to make all the hits in the A ...and thin learn to cut the time . Making the hits in the time frame is not that big a deal, once you can make all the hits in the A.

the key is shoot like time does not exist ....untill its time to stop - at that point wake up and stop

This post has been edited by AlamoShooter: 08 October 2009 - 09:02 PM

[boz1911]

Like Alamo said work on just getting good hits before you worry about the time. If you can't hit the 50 yard target consistently than the time doesn't really matter. After you've learned to get the points work on your weakest link. This is not an easy classifier and it will take it's toll on a lot of shooters so don't worry, you're not alone. Smooth consistent trigger pulls are what's needed along with watching the sight lift to do well on this one.

[calishootr]

worry aboutthe hits you can get, and not the time it takes, at the nats back when they used to do 50 yrd standards, i used to get wrapped up in the other people's cadences andthinking i had to run their speed, WRONG work within your own specific equipment and skill level, ie, you dont need to run master class open shooter splits if you are a c shooter in production, all it will casue you is misses/loss of points....work on the weak points, which on that course are stronghand(getting hits) and weakhand(trick there is the transfer ofthe gun from one tothe other hand) and for most stronghand and weakhand only shooting isnt their forte as is, let alone under time....

[Nik Habicht]

Back when we used to encounter standards pretty regularly, I always liked them --- because I could score better on a standards stage than I could on a field course. How? By not having the mindset of "must fire six shots in y time, but by having the mindset of "Shoot alphas only until time expires...."

On some strings that meant three shots instead of six.....

If i managed to shoot three alphas I was pretty happy. And every point scores is an actual match point....

[Sam]

The longer distance standards are wonderful exercises! They'll show you every time if your attention "signs off".

I wonder how much the sport would progress if every match, at every club, contained a long range standards stage for a full year?

What if we all knew that there were going to be enough 50 yard shots to decide the overall match placement?

You aren't "bad" at this particular classifier, Mort. It's just a solid challenge. It's just that we shoot so much quick and easy stuff that we get to thinking that we are "good".

[calishootr]

my favorite standards COF came from the 95 nats...18 shots in 18 seconds from 3 different positions with a mag change inbetween each postion....I threaten i wantto put it on, and get hammered by, 'whats the fun in that???' or 'its too far away'(all shot at 50 yrds) everyone wants to 'run and gun' these days, practice marksmanship, thats why we have a gun in our hands right???

[Houngan]

mort, on Oct 8 2009, 08:03 PM, said:

I really stink at this perticular stage: Area 4 Standards.
It has three fixed time 6 second strings.
First String: draw, six shots at one metric target 150 ft away-free style.
Second String: draw, six shots at one metric target 105 ft away- strong hand only
Third String: draw, six shots at one metric target 60 ft away-strong hand only

While practicing the stage today in anticipation of a local match this weekend, I could only score around 12 points Total. (that's with minor PF scoring since I shoot production). That's a total of one A, two or three Cs, a D or two and the rest mikes. I have been shooting local matches for a year and I usually will place 15th out of 25 shooters, or around a C or D ranking.

But this Area 4 Standards stage has me scratching my head. I can consistantly draw and fire the first shot in 1.5 to1.8 secs leaving me with 4.5 to 4.2 secs to do the other five shots. When I shoot this fast, hits are almost non-existant. When I slow down and take only 3 shots, I can actually score some A and C zone hits. How should I approach this stage in the match?

I also shot this distance targets from the bench, and when I took my time (20+ secs a shot) I could get my point score up to 49 (out of 90 since I took 6 shots at the 3 targets, at different distances, so 18 shots, if they were all As would score 90). So the 4.25 inch barrel of a Smith & Wesson M&P9 can get a high score.

I hate to say it, but you simply don't have the accuracy yet. From the bench, you should be able to hit all As, more or less, so I'm guessing you're losing the sights at the end of the trigger press. Forget about the timer and work on breaking the trigger while seeing the sights.

H.

[CHA-LEE]

I agree with Houngan on this. Regardless of the time it takes (don’t use a timer) you should be able to get your hits on target from a regular stance/grip. Until you can get solid hits in an untimed condition I wouldn’t even worry about trying to do it in a time pressure situation. You have to crawl before you can walk, and walk before you can run. Shooting the classifier would be considered “Running”. Shooting the same targets without a timer would be considered “Walking”. Shooting the same targets off of a bench without a timer would be considered “Crawling”.

Start at the bench and learn the proper trigger press to allow you to achieve all alpha hits. Then move up to shooting the same thing from your normal stance/grip and learn the proper body/arm hold and patience to achieve all alpha hits. Finally do the same thing with adding in the timer to put some pressure on you to perform.

Also keep in mind that very, very few people will ever achieve the ability to out perform their gun from an accuracy standpoint. Sure you can have some absolutely horrid reloads that cause accuracy problems. But if you are shooting quality ammo the gun will almost always be able to outperform your skill set. So don’t blame it on the gun. It’s the Indian, not the arrow.

[Houngan]

Anecdotally, I've shot the SS Nationals for the last 3 years, and they always have a standards course very similar to this. The first two years I tried to get my shots in under the buzzer with similar results to yours. This last year, I just shot As as fast as the sights would let me, and was at the top of the rankings for the stage, 82 points. In other words, you need to make everything quicker except the shooting. That's how you beat a timed stage.

H.

[XRe]

Houngan, on Oct 22 2009, 02:27 PM, said:

That's how you beat a timed stage.

Uh, not just a timed fire stage

[Houngan]

XRe, on Oct 22 2009, 04:30 PM, said:

Houngan, on Oct 22 2009, 02:27 PM, said:

That's how you beat a timed stage.

Uh, not just a timed fire stage

Heh, too true.

This is really an interesting point, and something that escapes a lot of folks who come to the game without a previous target shooting background. The first question you have to ask yourself, and I mean the first, is can you hit the target if there are no restrictions? Until the answer is always yes, don't work on anything else. This includes things like a Texas Star, if I bet you $1,000 that you won't hit a moving plate at 15yds with your next shot, can you take that bet?

Once the answer is yes, then you can start worrying about draws, reloads, movement, etc. But a miss at 25 yards is, at best, a .3 penalty for the make-up shot. (Mine are quite a bit higher) It takes months, if not years to make up that .3 in draw practice or reload practice, and once you get to a certain point, there's never going to be another .3 to make up, you just can't move much faster, but that extra split or transition still hurts just as much.

Something that everyone needs to prove to themselves, over and over, is that it's usually just as fast to take a 90% as it is to take a 70% shot, and only slightly slower to take a 100% shot. The difference between my "sights are there bang" shot and "sights are there, aligned, trigger press, called the shot, know where it is within a few inches" splits are an extra .1 at 25 yards, maybe .15. It feels like an eternity, but the timer doesn't lie. Most of the trick is just keeping that mindset after a nice hard sprint dumps a ton of adrenaline into your blood.

H.

This post has been edited by Houngan: 23 October 2009 - 07:37 AM

[JimmyZip]

I shot this stage before I was a member of USPSA. Most people would just try and hose because they thought they needed to fire all six in each string rather than get as many As as possible. The result was alot of poeple getting lots of misses. Then I saw one older guy go up and just shoot as many alphas as he could. Some of his strings he got all six. (freestyle) Some of his strings he got four. (weakhand) He placed in the top five on that stage for the match.
I am wanting to shoot this stage now that I am better and I think this is a good stage to practice as a drill. If you can shoot this accurately under that par time and less with ease, you are building the right skillset.
Guess I know what I'm shooting at the next range session.

[bulamike]

For me this one is aim small miss small, with so much target so far out initially you'll throw rounds all over the place strong and weak, get accurate then work on the time in practice.
25M bulls rapid fire strings weak and strong handed brought me in.
Good luck!