[Matt G]

What would you think if firefighters and EMS providers were added to the LE military sub-category. Maybe it could be changed to include all public safety personnel.

GSSF allows us all to shoot in guardian class against each other. FF, EMS, LE, Military etc.

Just curious what you guys think.

[mpolans]

deleted.

This post has been edited by mpolans: 01 October 2009 - 06:06 PM

[outerlimits]

we have too many already

[Matt G]

Too many what?

Classes, categories, competitors?

[kimel]

As an EMT...nope. Just doesn't fit. In most places EMT/FFs are not issued side arms so all the provisions re: duty rigs just don't fit. They also do not fit under 5.2.8.

[Tom Mainus]

What about left handed carpenters who shoot revolvers and ride Harleys....


Seriously,

We have to many special categories already. It is a pain in the ass from a MD perspective to try to get trophies for all the "special people" already. If you want to do it on the local level where you have a bunch of EMS guys shooting already, fine have at it. I don't think we need anymore categories added to the list.

Just my .02.

Tom

[Matt G]

5.2.8 Competitors deemed by the Match Director to be full-time law enforcement
officers with arrest powers or military personnel on current active
duty orders, may be entitled to use their duty holsters or similar holster
and related equipment when such equipment does not strictly satisfy
the equipment or other requirements of the declared Division. The
Range Master will remain the final authority in respect of the safety
and suitability of using such equipment at USPSA matches. The use of
such equipment, except as otherwise permitted in the rules, is restricted
to Level I matches only.


This only allows duty rigs at Level 1 matches. It doesn't define who.

I know firefighters and EMS don't fit in the category, just wondering why we can't add them into the mix.

Appendix A

3. Individual Categories:
Categories approved for individual recognition are as follows:
a. Lady
b. Junior Competitors under the age of 18 on the first day
of the match.
c. Senior Competitors over the age of 55 on the first day of
the match
d. Super Senior Competitors over the age of 65 on the first day of
the match.. A competitor over the age of 65 on the
first day of the match may enter Senior Category
only if Super Senior is unavailable.
e. Military Military personnel on current active duty orders.
f. Law Full-time law enforcement officers with arrest
powers.

How about add another one or add to an existing one, shouldn't they qualify for a special category like the others?

Guys I'm just throwing it out there not trying to make anyone mad.

[Nik Habicht]

I'm fine with that, as long as we're willing to add categories for all non-firearms professions.....

Carpenters, roofers, accountants, college professors, lawyers, gunsmiths, nurses, doctors, truck drivers, engineers, computer programmers, mechanics, merchants, cooks, writers, photographers, archeologists, etc.....

[Matt G]

Maybe just do.

a. Lady
b. Junior
c. Senior
d. Guardian

Wouldn't that also make it simpler on the MD.

Or do away with the sub categories completely, even easier.

[Tom Mainus]

Matt G, on Oct 1 2009, 09:04 PM, said:

Or do away with the sub categories completely, even easier.

Now you are on to something

Tom

[smokshwn]

Is there a reason FF/EMT's are in need of special recognition?

[Matt G]

I think they are entitled to the same recognition as military and law enforcement.

Is what a firefighter does any less worthy than what they do?

Just thinking add them to the same class.

[smokshwn]

Matt G, on Oct 1 2009, 08:26 PM, said:

I think they are entitled to the same recognition as military and law enforcement.

Is what a firefighter does any less worthy than what they do?

Just thinking add them to the same class.

The connection between recognizing Military and LE is that this sport was born of finding out what was the best technique to put rounds on target in a gunfight.

Firefighters and EMS have no connection to that. If you admire what they do, or think there profession is worthy of recognition then there are plenty of other folks who fall into that category, and I think it falls onto the slippery slope, as many above have indicated, that we already have plenty of ways to recognize competitors.

Are the efforts of a Hospice Nurse, a Special Education Teacher, a Single Mom/Dad, etc any less worthy than what they do?

Personally I feel very strongly that I want my shooting to be recognized (that recognizes my effort, my commitment, my skill). I really have no desire to have my profession recognized.

This post has been edited by smokshwn: 01 October 2009 - 07:43 PM

[Matt G]

Following your logic, then only LE and military should have their own category and we can get rid of Lady, Junior, And Senior.

Since they have nothing to do with the tradition of who can put rounds on target in a gunfight.

[hf219]

Edited for poor gramar.

This post has been edited by hf219: 01 October 2009 - 07:55 PM

[hf219]

edited for the KILT CAUSE! H!

This post has been edited by hf219: 01 October 2009 - 07:54 PM

[Ron Ankeny]

Quote

Is there a reason FF/EMT's are in need of special recognition?

Do people acting in the capacity of firefighter and/or ems bring something special to our society, absolutely. That's why Glock has chosen to recognize those folks with a discount on firearms and their own category at GSSF shoots. Should USPSA follow suit? I don't think so. In fact, I think we should dump all special categories except junior.

FWIW, I have been involved in the emergency services for over 25 years. Most folks don't have a clue what we are all about. Sometimes I think emergency workers (especially volunteers) are just plain nuts. Why on earth would anyone give so selflessly to such a selfish society?

This post has been edited by Ron Ankeny: 01 October 2009 - 07:56 PM

[hf219]

smokshwn, on Oct 1 2009, 10:42 PM, said:

Matt G, on Oct 1 2009, 08:26 PM, said:

I think they are entitled to the same recognition as military and law enforcement.

Is what a firefighter does any less worthy than what they do?

Just thinking add them to the same class.

The connection between recognizing Military and LE is that this sport was born of finding out what was the best technique to put rounds on target in a gunfight.

Firefighters and EMS have no connection to that. If you admire what they do, or think there profession is worthy of recognition then there are plenty of other folks who fall into that category, and I think it falls onto the slippery slope, as many above have indicated, that we already have plenty of ways to recognize competitors.

Are the efforts of a Hospice Nurse, a Special Education Teacher, a Single Mom/Dad, etc any less worthy than what they do?

Personally I feel very strongly that I want my shooting to be recognized (that recognizes my effort, my commitment, my skill). I really have no desire to have my profession recognized.

No disrespect to the previous posts. Seriously Craig, a Kilt catagory would be a great way to gain notority! You dont wear one for any other reason! You could be deamed Kilt National Champion. H!

[Matt G]

I could support a kilt category but I am a bit concerned over where they would start the measuring of your mag carriers.

Not to mention the scary thought of some of us going prone to shoot a low port.

A kilt division would have to have a mandatory undergarment rule attached and I'm not sure we could all agree on
an appropriate covering garment.

[smokshwn]

Matt G, on Oct 1 2009, 08:48 PM, said:

Following your logic, then only LE and military should have their own category and we can get rid of Lady, Junior, And Senior.

Since they have nothing to do with the tradition of who can put rounds on target in a gunfight.

Absolutely. You asked for peoples opinions, mine is that shooting be recognized, not professions, genders, age, etc. If your idea is that a profession get special recognition, then I simply pointed out that there are a whole helluva lot of professions that would be equally worthy of admiration.

Just as an aside, I am a professional Fireman/Paramedic and serve as a full member of our Sheriff's office SWAT team. I have plenty of admiration for the job I do and the career I chose. However, I am across the board philosophically opposed to continually adding to the number of categories until we are at a stage of "everybody gets a trophy".

As to the National Kilt Champion idea.....I'll mull it over

[Nik Habicht]

Ron Ankeny, on Oct 1 2009, 10:50 PM, said:

Why on earth would anyone give so selflessly to such a selfish society?

Because to do less when one is capable, would be worse that giving selflessly to a partly ungrateful society.....

[Joe4d]

Matt G, on Oct 1 2009, 10:26 PM, said:

I think they are entitled to the same recognition as military and law enforcement.

Is what a firefighter does any less worthy than what they do?

Just thinking add them to the same class.

Yes very much so, a Fire fighter,/ civilian EMT's duty in no way compares to what soldiers, sailors, marines, and airmen have done for this country. Not even in the same ballpark.

[Sterling White]

I vote no. And say this even though I've been fighting forest fires since the mid 80's.

The Le/Mil division should be left alone. It has great growth potential as is without adding emt/ff's to it.

[outerlimits]

Joe4d, on Oct 2 2009, 09:37 AM, said:

Matt G, on Oct 1 2009, 10:26 PM, said:

I think they are entitled to the same recognition as military and law enforcement.

Is what a firefighter does any less worthy than what they do?

Just thinking add them to the same class.

Yes very much so, a Fire fighter,/ civilian EMT's duty in no way compares to what soldiers, sailors, marines, and airmen have done for this country. Not even in the same ballpark.

+1...leo's either.

[GentlemanJim]

As much as I love Firefighters ...dont put them in with LE and military


PS....Firefighters that wear kilts are really HOT
Jim