[818-DVC]

Hi, I am new to USPSA and I have been shooting single stack with a para and prod./L-10 with my glock 34. I recently shot an STI limited gun and now I really want one. They are a cut above. Being a californian, I am limited to what I can obtain due to the Laws and STI's stance on not retailing in CA. I have seen a few Barsto's at some matches, and heard they are the same as STI for the most part. Looks like an Edge to me. Aside from the barrel, are there any real differences between a barsto and an STI? I know that I will have to send a barsto out for some tuning to run 100%, and I want an STI that has already been put through its paces and is race ready. The Problem obviously being that used CA. STI guns are sold at a premium. I am patient, but I am curious to what more experienced shooters would do in this situation. Do I just buy the new barsto and have a smith tune it for me, or do I buy a used Barsto that is already tuned, or a used STI for big dollars and wait for the right gun to come along? What would you do? I will continue to shoot my current setups, but after shooting a polymer/ alloy framed gun that has been worked over nicely, it is not near as fun shooting my guns anymore. I will not pay the premium of a CA SV. I simply cannot afford a $3500 gun. $2k is really pushing it for me. Any other suggestions?

[shooterbenedetto]

Be patient and I'm sure a used STI may be up for sale under 2k.
in the mean time, I would shoot a glock..RELIABILITY is awsome!
I'm not sure if CZ has one in .40..I know spo1 in 9mm shoots very well
good luck!

This post has been edited by shooterbenedetto: 30 September 2009 - 08:36 PM

[ChuckS]

Hi Jacob,

Welcome to the forum. The problem with used fat guns in CA is that people do not have to advertise them when they want to get rid of them. Leave word at gunsmiths and matches what you are looking for. In a while you will be able to post a classified here also. Or you could just buy a BarSto and tune it.

Later,
Chuck

[Larry White]

Its hard to deny STIs support of this sport, but STI made the CHOICE not to sell in the Ca market. STI hi caps in Ca bring a premiun price that seems outrageous to us outside the state. Barsto chose to jump thur the hoops to bring hi cap pistols to the shooters of the state and from what I have seen they are not rakeing the shooters over the coals price wise. Barsto hi caps are in fact STIs sold as Barstos under licence from STI. I'm sure Barsto is useing barrels and parts that they make but thats good stuff. Hard choice, but Barsto did the work to produce the guns in a unfriendly envoriment and support the Ca shooters, I think I would support them and buy thier pistol.----------Larry

This post has been edited by Larry White: 30 September 2009 - 09:11 PM

[Religious Shooter]

Yah!!!!!!!

Darn right!!!!

[Intel6]

I wonder what will happen to the BarSto pistols in CA when they move? I guess since they already went through the trouble they will continue to sell them there even thoug they aren't in the state anymore?

Neal in AZ

[STIGUY]

818-DVC, on Sep 30 2009, 07:06 PM, said:

Hi, I am new to USPSA and I have been shooting single stack with a para and prod./L-10 with my glock 34. I recently shot an STI limited gun and now I really want one. They are a cut above. Being a californian, I am limited to what I can obtain due to the Laws and STI's stance on not retailing in CA. I have seen a few Barsto's at some matches, and heard they are the same as STI for the most part. Looks like an Edge to me. Aside from the barrel, are there any real differences between a barsto and an STI? I know that I will have to send a barsto out for some tuning to run 100%, and I want an STI that has already been put through its paces and is race ready. The Problem obviously being that used CA. STI guns are sold at a premium. I am patient, but I am curious to what more experienced shooters would do in this situation. Do I just buy the new barsto and have a smith tune it for me, or do I buy a used Barsto that is already tuned, or a used STI for big dollars and wait for the right gun to come along? What would you do? I will continue to shoot my current setups, but after shooting a polymer/ alloy framed gun that has been worked over nicely, it is not near as fun shooting my guns anymore. I will not pay the premium of a CA SV. I simply cannot afford a $3500 gun. $2k is really pushing it for me. Any other suggestions?

I am much the same as you......just wanted an STI for a long time. I could not see myselF spending $2K plus for a new gun from Dawson or Brazos. Fortunately, I do not live in the ROC and I found a used STI on these classifieds that is in transit. I waited patiently.....so I know what your going through! I wish YOU the BEST of LUCK on acquiring an STI.

[Larry White]

Intel6, on Sep 30 2009, 09:40 PM, said:

I wonder what will happen to the BarSto pistols in CA when they move? I guess since they already went through the trouble they will continue to sell them there even thoug they aren't in the state anymore?

Neal in AZ

The pistols are already on the approved list, dont think that would change. SVI is selling in Ca and they are here in Tx. I cant see why they would stop produceing the Ca guns. The only loser I see is the Ca tax base and they seem intent on running every business in sight out of the state.--------------Larry

[larry cazes]

$3500 is way overpriced even for here. Do not let yourself be gouged by the unscrupulous among us. I have owned multiple STI based limited guns and paid around $2000 or less for each. Put the word out through your shooting buddies and be patient. I would also look for a bare frame that is in state and have someone like Dan Bedell build one to your specs. There are lots of legal frames floating around if you know the right folks to ask. I also would feel confident buying a Barsto if that is your preference. Finally if none of these options are viable talk to the folks at SV. They have a limited gun configuration that is approved for sale by the state. Certainly not the cheapest route, though.

This post has been edited by larry cazes: 30 September 2009 - 10:02 PM

[calishootr]

I will echo my sentiments for you as well, yes i do live in the republic, and how i got my limited gun was i came out on top of a bidding war for a bare frame w/ mags that was a legal 2 party sale, and since I know what i like in parts i went thru the brownells catalog forthe parts that I wanted and then contacted my favorite gunsmith, johnny Lim, who builds a nice pistol, and is quick about it time wise...

back in the 01 nats i got to talk w/ mr. Skinner and asked why he was pulling out of cali, the response was because of our governor atthe time passed legislation to allow people to sue thefirearms manafactures for liable in the case of a misuse by said firearm...and he said he liked all the people using and shooting his product, but it wasnt worth losing his company over...as i recall there is still a suit going over jennings firearms, seems someone of debateable ethics??? had a 'unloaded' gun made by jennings pointed at him and was shot and paralyzed, he is now sueing jennings firearms...

long and short of it, they are out there if you look hard enuff for one, mite have to build one from the ground up, lots of options....

[818-DVC]

Thank you for all the advice. One way or the other, I will buy a barsto or STI. whether I buy it or build it. The sad part is I know exactly what I want parts wise should I order a frame, but when calculating the cost I'm at $1400 in parts alone!
I love SV guns. They are beautiful. At $2600 for a .45 to be shipped here, $300+ in Taxes & DROS, then shipped back to SV to build the pistol in the caliber and configuration I want will take 7 more months and an add'l $1200. That is not the route I am trying to go before even getting classified. Not that I feel the gun will bump me up in class either. I just want a good feeling accurate reliable gun like what I shot a few weekends ago. $4+K is not in my budget for a limited gun. maybe a new roof.

[technetium-99m]

I realize the desire for a fat 1911 but why would you want one without the full capacity mags. In CA didn't you have to possess them before the ban for them to be legal?

On a side note, I am amazed that the practical shooting community in California is as big as it is despite the oppressive regime.

[818-DVC]

technetium-99m, on Oct 3 2009, 10:46 AM, said:

I realize the desire for a fat 1911 but why would you want one without the full capacity mags. In CA didn't you have to possess them before the ban for them to be legal?

On a side note, I am amazed that the practical shooting community in California is as big as it is despite the oppressive regime.

I want one because I love the feel of an STI frame. I love the parts accessibility. I have a Caspian framed wide 1911 and I'm not fond of the recoil impulse of it vs. the polymer/alloy frame of STI. I don't care shooting L-10 here, and borrowing some tubes from friends to shoot limited. my caspian is almost 20 years old and has 18 round mags. not even competitive for the 20+1 mags out there. + I hate the safeties and trigger on it.

[warpspeed]

Buy a Barsto.

[Brian Gonsalves]

Larry White, on Sep 30 2009, 09:08 PM, said:

Its hard to deny STIs support of this sport, but STI made the CHOICE not to sell in the Ca market. STI hi caps in Ca bring a premiun price that seems outrageous to us outside the state. Barsto chose to jump thur the hoops to bring hi cap pistols to the shooters of the state and from what I have seen they are not rakeing the shooters over the coals price wise. Barsto hi caps are in fact STIs sold as Barstos under licence from STI. I'm sure Barsto is useing barrels and parts that they make but thats good stuff. Hard choice, but Barsto did the work to produce the guns in a unfriendly envoriment and support the Ca shooters, I think I would support them and buy thier pistol.----------Larry

I agree with Larry, buy a Barsto.

Shoot it a while then decide what if anything you want to change. I have a friend who won one if a raffle some time back (lucky bastard) and it works great as is. Once you decide what you want done send it off to Benny for a quick tune-up!

[818-DVC]

Brian Gonsalves, on Oct 3 2009, 01:01 PM, said:

Larry White, on Sep 30 2009, 09:08 PM, said:

Its hard to deny STIs support of this sport, but STI made the CHOICE not to sell in the Ca market. STI hi caps in Ca bring a premiun price that seems outrageous to us outside the state. Barsto chose to jump thur the hoops to bring hi cap pistols to the shooters of the state and from what I have seen they are not rakeing the shooters over the coals price wise. Barsto hi caps are in fact STIs sold as Barstos under licence from STI. I'm sure Barsto is useing barrels and parts that they make but thats good stuff. Hard choice, but Barsto did the work to produce the guns in a unfriendly envoriment and support the Ca shooters, I think I would support them and buy thier pistol.----------Larry

I agree with Larry, buy a Barsto.

Shoot it a while then decide what if anything you want to change. I have a friend who won one if a raffle some time back (lucky bastard) and it works great as is. Once you decide what you want done send it off to Benny for a quick tune-up!

I have found some affordable 2011's with a lot of the parts I like, but all seem to need something or another to make it what I think I want. I just shot Scott Drurians barsto he shoots steel with and after he had some of the parts polished and a 1.5lb. trigger job I came to the conclusion that I like short framed and dust covered guns a little more than than long wide frames and full slab slides. It felt sluggish in my hands. just wasn't as snappy as my para 1911. maybe I need to send a few more rounds downrange to get used to it. I love the feel of my light gun, though I can feel how much smoother the recoil is and how the extra dustcover makes for a much smoother ride all together. controlled pairs were slower but the follow ups were way tighter. it could also be because I was shooting minor 130pf steel loads. need to try it with major loads to really get a feel for it. As my first 2011, I do want it to have a gun that shoots the way I like it to. While I love benny's work, There are local smiths that can do a lot of the work in a day as I watch, If I don't do most the work myself. I own several 1911's and pretty much built my para from a frame and RRA slide, and a bunch of other parts lying around in my tool box. I have done a lot of my own repairs and I think I can go through it with a file, buffing wheel and stone to get the barsto tuned as best I can. I'm no trigger expert so I would send it to where scott had his done, but I am still left with the dilemma of the long wide frame and full profile slide. I know its all preference, and I'm sure I can used to a full length dust cover. I'm just trying to get it all figured out before I take the plunge. I just spoke my father who had a tripp research gun a long time ago and he says he might have some mags for me to use. Who knows what size they are. He can't find the gun in any of his safes or stash spots, and cant remember if he sold it or not. but he said he thought it was commander length built by Jim Hogue for a defense pistol. He says its not what I'm looking for. shucks! If I buy a barsto, I may eventually want to cut the slide and frame down or use my top RRA top end but I am still stuck with a long Dustcover. If I'm not understanding the reasons behind the full length frame and slab slide completely. please let me know. I understand that the long/full guns are heavier up front for better sight tracking, and I can feel the extra frame length makes it cycle like glass on glass. there are some members here that have offered up some really nice used guns, and I will check them out in the meantime. I guess If I buy a used gun, I can always sell a couple single stacks and revolvers I own to build the gun I really want. just didnt want to spend so much on my first 2011. was trying to save for loading components and a new rig & mags. off to gunbroker now. thanks everyone for your input.
JL

[warpspeed]

818-DVC, on Oct 3 2009, 02:42 PM, said:

I just shot Scott Drurians barsto he shoots steel with and after he had some of the parts polished and a 1.5lb. trigger job I came to the conclusion that I like short framed and dust covered guns a little more than than long wide frames and full slab slides.

... but I am still left with the dilemma of the long wide frame and full profile slide.

If I buy a barsto, I may eventually want to cut the slide and frame down or use my top RRA top end but I am still stuck with a long Dustcover.

JL

Just to clarify, Barsto frames are Stainless Steel. If you want the frame "standard length", have the gunsmith cut it to whatever length you want.


I have an open gun built by Derek @ Millennium Custom that stared out as a long /wide frame kit. It is now a short wide frame. Shoot it long, if you don't like it, have it cut shorter.

[JimmyZip]

Buy a Barsto,

Irv is a great guy who stands behind his stuff. If you get it before they leave the state, you can make the 1 1/2 hour drive to 29 Palms and avoid shipping and see the place in person. I like him, I like his stuff. No reason not to buy what is a great pistol. The people I know who shoot Barstos all seem to be quite happy with them. I can't reacall any that have had to tune them.

[818-DVC]

JimmyZip, on Oct 3 2009, 03:17 PM, said:

Buy a Barsto,

Irv is a great guy who stands behind his stuff. If you get it before they leave the state, you can make the 1 1/2 hour drive to 29 Palms and avoid shipping and see the place in person. I like him, I like his stuff. No reason not to buy what is a great pistol. The people I know who shoot Barstos all seem to be quite happy with them. I can't reacall any that have had to tune them.

I am really surprised how many say to just go for the Barsto. do any of you know Barsto is going to offer a short dust cover gun any time soon?

[Brian Gonsalves]

818-DVC, on Oct 3 2009, 03:36 PM, said:

JimmyZip, on Oct 3 2009, 03:17 PM, said:

Buy a Barsto,

Irv is a great guy who stands behind his stuff. If you get it before they leave the state, you can make the 1 1/2 hour drive to 29 Palms and avoid shipping and see the place in person. I like him, I like his stuff. No reason not to buy what is a great pistol. The people I know who shoot Barstos all seem to be quite happy with them. I can't reacall any that have had to tune them.

I am really surprised how many say to just go for the Barsto. do any of you know Barsto is going to offer a short dust cover gun any time soon?

If they do, I would be surprised if they can get it on the California list. A good gunsmith and his mill can be your friend!

This post has been edited by Brian Gonsalves: 03 October 2009 - 03:45 PM

[grandbagger]

Quote

do any of you know Barsto is going to offer a short dust cover gun any time soon?

in cali? i dont think so
but you can always cut the frame to preference..

[Rob Boudrie]

What is the motivation to get an SxI wide body? CA law does not allow you to have >10 round magazines that you did not personally possess prior to the Caliban (no, you may not legally buy them used even inf they were in CA prior to the ban - you must have PERSONALLY owned them prior to the ban) unless you have a "hi cap magazine license" which is generally only available to dealers.

Unless you layed in an inventory of mags (yes, it happens - I still have mags I bought in 1994 for guns I thought I would get around to buying some day) you will do just as well with a single stack 1911 and a 140mm 10 round magazine.

Quote

I don't care shooting L-10 here, and borrowing some tubes from friends to shoot limited.

Assembling the tube into a complete > 10 round magazine may very well be a felony under CA law if you care about that sort of thing

[JimmyZip]

Brian Gonsalves, on Oct 3 2009, 03:45 PM, said:

818-DVC, on Oct 3 2009, 03:36 PM, said:

JimmyZip, on Oct 3 2009, 03:17 PM, said:

Buy a Barsto,

Irv is a great guy who stands behind his stuff. If you get it before they leave the state, you can make the 1 1/2 hour drive to 29 Palms and avoid shipping and see the place in person. I like him, I like his stuff. No reason not to buy what is a great pistol. The people I know who shoot Barstos all seem to be quite happy with them. I can't reacall any that have had to tune them.

I am really surprised how many say to just go for the Barsto. do any of you know Barsto is going to offer a short dust cover gun any time soon?

If they do, I would be surprised if they can get it on the California list. A good gunsmith and his mill can be your friend!

Irv is a decent gunsmith. give him a call, he'll probably do it for you . Can't hurt to ask.

Rob Boudrie, on Oct 3 2009, 05:58 PM, said:

What is the motivation to get an SxI wide body? CA law does not allow you to have >10 round magazines that you did not personally possess prior to the Caliban (no, you may not legally buy them used even inf they were in CA prior to the ban - you must have PERSONALLY owned them prior to the ban) unless you have a "hi cap magazine license" which is generally only available to dealers.

Unless you layed in an inventory of mags (yes, it happens - I still have mags I bought in 1994 for guns I thought I would get around to buying some day) you will do just as well with a single stack 1911 and a 140mm 10 round magazine.

Some people like the feel of these guns. If they want to shoot L-10 with a wide body, what's it going to hurt? Don't think they'll be at a disadvantage giong that route really do you? I've seen alot of people do it, and when I want to visit my parents up in the great Northwet, I can just pick up my hicaps at the relatives and shoot it that way. Don't see a problem.

[Rob Boudrie]

Quote

Some people like the feel of these guns. If they want to shoot L-10 with a wide body, what's it going to hurt? Don't think they'll be at a disadvantage giong that route really do you?

It might even be an advantage, as some people find the magazine/magwell combo easier to reload. The comment about "borrowing tubes to shoot limited" gave the impression that the poster was not talking about getting one of these puppies to shoot L10.

[JimmyZip]

Yeah, well I can see your point there.