[patrickbeijer]

In my country we are not allowed to buy shotguns that are new we are only allowed to use the ones we have and after they are all gone we are not able to buy new ones so here comes a strange question from me.
Me and another shooter like to shoot open class ipsc shotgun in Europe but we keep losing major time on the mag fed Saiga's and Molots so we are thinking about building a Saiga mag under the Benelli.
I did find a gunsmith that says it can be done but is there anybody here who has ever seen this ?
I do not care about the price but a saiga is out off the question by our laws so this seems to be the only route

[Dan Sierpina]

I don't see why it can't be done. It would be a simpler mechanism. I converted a tube fed Remington .22lr pump to a magazine fed, for the same reason.

[Merlin Orr]

Would it be legal to do so here in the colonies..?

[TeamGE]

I doubt you could get the Benelli M1/M2 inertia recoil system to function with a mag full of shells rubbing on the bottom of the bolt carrier. Too much friction. Also, you would need a stronger recoil spring to strip the shell from the magazine, which is in total conflict with the design of the Benelli system. They are fussy enough in stock form in what they need in recoil/inertia to cycle correctly.

A gas piston system would be the call so you could adjust the force needed to blow the carrier back, overcome the drag of the top shell rubbing on the bottom of the carrier and the recoil spring necessary to strip a shell from the mag.

[AlamoShooter]

We would welcome you in Texas
Alamo

[J-Ho]

AlamoShooter, on Sep 23 2009, 06:23 PM, said:

We would welcome you in Texas
Alamo

Not so sure about that. Those folks tend to wear to wear too much orange. Well since it isn't burnt orange I guess you would be ok.

[Charles Bond]

Merlin Orr, on Sep 23 2009, 03:29 PM, said:

Would it be legal to do so here in the colonies..?

Under George Bush yes. Under the current administration, while I do not believe the present rules make it illegal, I would sure hate to see a "change" about the time the modification was ready to go.

[Sako92S]

Patrick
You have interesting gun laws there in Netherlands.
I believe you are allowed to buy AR-15 rifles but not semi shotguns, am I right?

Taisto
Ps. I was at the same match in CZ and Norway

[patrickbeijer]

You are correct Taisto ,and yes our laws are a bit strange we can have almost every gun as long as its not a single barreled shotgun or a full auto rifle and we cannot own more then 5 guns on a sporting license and then 6 more on a hunting permit (and 5 more on my wife's permit )
Oh yeah rifles are not allowed with barrels shorter then 13 inch

[ken hebert]

+1 on the move to Texas.

[Charles Bond]

patrickbeijer, on Sep 24 2009, 12:18 PM, said:

You are correct Taisto ,and yes our laws are a bit strange we can have almost every gun as long as its not a single barreled shotgun

So what happens if you get a new M-1, have someone attach a single shot shotgun to the barrel with tick welds. Does that make it legal to import?

[Sako92S]

Patrick
- No restrictions on barrel length (if you can get "other weapon" permit), normally on long guns 410mm and pistols must not fit on the certain size of box.
(In our town there is only 2 "other weapon" permits on sport shooting purposes, mine and my wife's)
- No restrictions how many guns you can own
- No restrictions on magazine capacity
- Collectors are allowed to buy full auto weapons

That is the situation here in Finland now but new gun law is coming beginning of next year and it's going to be tighter.

[patrickbeijer]

Charles Bond, on Sep 24 2009, 08:57 PM, said:

patrickbeijer, on Sep 24 2009, 12:18 PM, said:

You are correct Taisto ,and yes our laws are a bit strange we can have almost every gun as long as its not a single barreled shotgun

So what happens if you get a new M-1, have someone attach a single shot shotgun to the barrel with tick welds. Does that make it legal to import?

I think you can make it legal this way ,but it would look pretty funny on a ipsc match

@Taisto
Gun regulations are changing in whole europe and they are not getting better
all i want is a shotgun that is useable in open class but needs to be competitive with Saiga's and Molots

[Charles Bond]

patrickbeijer, on Sep 25 2009, 09:35 AM, said:

Charles Bond, on Sep 24 2009, 08:57 PM, said:

patrickbeijer, on Sep 24 2009, 12:18 PM, said:

You are correct Taisto ,and yes our laws are a bit strange we can have almost every gun as long as its not a single barreled shotgun

So what happens if you get a new M-1, have someone attach a single shot shotgun to the barrel with tick welds. Does that make it legal to import?

I think you can make it legal this way ,but it would look pretty funny on a ipsc match

@Taisto
Gun regulations are changing in whole europe and they are not getting better
all i want is a shotgun that is useable in open class but needs to be competitive with Saiga's and Molots

Of course something would happen at the first match were you "broke" that second barrel off due to weak tick welds.

[patrickbeijer]

offcourse THAT would be an option but we have to show the guns at the policestation before they put it on your license and they are good enough with guns to see that 1 barrel is not working ,and the gun should be able to function (i think ....)

Offcourse i can move to Texas

[Sako92S]

patrickbeijer, on Sep 25 2009, 07:35 AM, said:

@Taisto
Gun regulations are changing in whole europe and they are not getting better
all i want is a shotgun that is useable in open class but needs to be competitive with Saiga's and Molots

Patrick
The solution for your problem is to get that NEW system from Thai open shooters.
Tube fed Benelli with changeable tubes.
 IMG_1861.jpg (66.61K)
Number of downloads: 140

 IMG_1865.jpg (63.49K)
Number of downloads: 124

 IMG_1866.jpg (60.23K)
Number of downloads: 111
My friend Wilhelm bought that system from Thai shooters at ESC09 match.
If I remember correctly it was 500 euros for complete set with all hardware and rig.

[patrickbeijer]

I have seen this before on a internet movie (don't no where ) but it seems slower then working with regular magazines from what i have seen.

I did spoke to another gunsmith today and he told me that getting my benelli to run on mags is asking for problems with the functioning of the gun(the other gunsmith sayd it could be done) so for now i am not goiing to do this

Do you think you can load quiker with the interchangeable tubes then with the speedloaders ?
Do you have a website link from the Thai builder of these tubes ?

[Charles Bond]

patrickbeijer, on Sep 28 2009, 06:04 PM, said:

Do you think you can load quiker with the interchangeable tubes then with the speedloaders ?

Heck no. It also looks to me that you are going to invite a DQ for sweeping using this method.

[StealthyBlagga]

Take a look at the new XRail system. This YouTube video shows an XRail-upgraded Benelli M2 firing 26 rounds. It would still require TecLoader speedloaders for very long stages, but should reduce the number of stages where you need to reload, and even the Saiga guys have to reload after burning a 20 round drum.

Remember the upside of a tube gun is ammo flexibility - you can select slug much more easily than with a box mag, if that is something you do commonly in your matches (we do here).

This post has been edited by StealthyBlagga: 28 September 2009 - 08:17 PM

[mike4045]

StealthyBlagga, on Sep 28 2009, 08:13 PM, said:

Take a look at the new XRail system. This YouTube video shows an XRail-upgraded Benelli M2 firing 26 rounds. It would still require TecLoader speedloaders for very long stages, but should reduce the number of stages where you need to reload, and even the Saiga guys have to reload after burning a 20 round drum.

Remember the upside of a tube gun is ammo flexibility - you can select slug much more easily than with a box mag, if that is something you do commonly in your matches (we do here).

I want one. Would they be legal for open division?

[Sako92S]

mike4045, on Sep 28 2009, 09:23 PM, said:

I want one. Would they be legal for open division?

Yes, at least in IPSC shotgun matches.

Does anyone know the price tag for the full version?

[StealthyBlagga]

mike4045, on Sep 28 2009, 08:23 PM, said:

StealthyBlagga, on Sep 28 2009, 08:13 PM, said:

Take a look at the new XRail system. This YouTube video shows an XRail-upgraded Benelli M2 firing 26 rounds. It would still require TecLoader speedloaders for very long stages, but should reduce the number of stages where you need to reload, and even the Saiga guys have to reload after burning a 20 round drum.

Remember the upside of a tube gun is ammo flexibility - you can select slug much more easily than with a box mag, if that is something you do commonly in your matches (we do here).

I want one. Would they be legal for open division?

For IPSC (internaltional matches) and for IMA (i.e. most outlaw matches), these should be legal. Unfortunately, USPSA still clings to the 10+1 maximum .

[patrickbeijer]

I want one as wel

[gunfighteruk]

patrickbeijer, on Sep 23 2009, 08:06 PM, said:

In my country we are not allowed to buy shotguns that are new we are only allowed to use the ones we have and after they are all gone we are not able to buy new ones so here comes a strange question from me.
Me and another shooter like to shoot open class ipsc shotgun in Europe but we keep losing major time on the mag fed Saiga's and Molots so we are thinking about building a Saiga mag under the Benelli.
I did find a gunsmith that says it can be done but is there anybody here who has ever seen this ?
I do not care about the price but a saiga is out off the question by our laws so this seems to be the only route

Iv got a spare American Saiga magwell :

http://store.carolin...Magazine/Detail

looks like it would fit on an M1/M2 although iv no idea if the round would be at the right angle ?

the Italian Valtro PM5 pump guns feed area looks similar to an M1 & use a mag release set up,maybe you could mod the parts to fit ??

This post has been edited by gunfighteruk: 30 September 2009 - 08:44 AM

[patrickbeijer]

I won't change my M1 to a box fed but i would like to buy the Xrail system.
They do not respond to mail and iff you call them you get a tape.

I am very curious about the design and where the spring in the tube goes when you fill the magazine tube