[Flyin40]

Wow does it stink but its so much cheaper. I'm still on my first Coleman propane canister for camping. I have about 10 of them left over from camping last yr. I would of went through 2 or 3 green gas cans by now.


Flyin

[dajarrel]

You could add an igniter at the end of the barrel and make it look like an open gun

If I was shooting one, I would go with whatever was the cheapest, and you're right, propane does kinda stink


dj

[BSeevers]

Flyin40, on Sep 22 2009, 04:45 PM, said:

Wow does it stink but its so much cheaper. I'm still on my first Coleman propane canister for camping. I have about 10 of them left over from camping last yr. I would of went through 2 or 3 green gas cans by now.


Flyin

What you practice?

[Bearcave]

Ran a couple of magazines thru my gun when it showed up in the house, propane better outside. It does work good, keep a bottle in my airsoft gun bag.

[JohnGaultsGun]

Flyin40, on Sep 22 2009, 01:45 PM, said:

Wow does it stink but its so much cheaper. I'm still on my first Coleman propane canister for camping. I have about 10 of them left over from camping last yr. I would of went through 2 or 3 green gas cans by now.


Flyin

Use a fan.

BTW, hows the accuracy on your airsoft? Have you measured your grouping at any given distance?

[Duane Thomas]

Quote

Use a fan.

But that's so....simple.

[Flyin40]

JohnGaultsGun, on Sep 23 2009, 03:32 AM, said:

Flyin40, on Sep 22 2009, 01:45 PM, said:

Wow does it stink but its so much cheaper. I'm still on my first Coleman propane canister for camping. I have about 10 of them left over from camping last yr. I would of went through 2 or 3 green gas cans by now.


Flyin

Use a fan.

BTW, hows the accuracy on your airsoft? Have you measured your grouping at any given distance?

I have only shot groups at 15 ft and its pretty much one hole grps maybe a little bit bigger but not much.


Fan won't help, it only stinks up the entire house instead of just the basement........so I guess its not that simple

[RogerT]

How much propane does it take indoors before you have a combustible fuel mix?

[Duane Thomas]

I have do idea. I'd be willing to bet it's a hell of a lot more than comes out of an Airsoft gun. We're talking little puffs of gas that quickly dissipate out into the room. Honestly, I'd just about bet money you couldn't fire and reload an Airsoft gun fast enough, in a room of any size, for it to be a flammable hazard.

[Flyin40]

RogerT, on Sep 23 2009, 06:46 AM, said:

How much propane does it take indoors before you have a combustible fuel mix?

In a closed room about 12 mags worth of propane. Also remember the propane settles at floor level where is concentrates because its heavier than air. I'll try to find where I read the info and post a link. I was really worried about shooting in the basement because of ventilation but now I just keep it to no more than 8 mags. When I used green gas I just used a fan to keep air moving. But just using propane stinks up the house fast when I use a fan.

So if your opening windows and have a fan its like Duane said, I don't think you have much to worry about.


Flyin

This post has been edited by Flyin40: 23 September 2009 - 04:20 AM

[Duane Thomas]

Quote

Fan won't help, it only stinks up the entire house instead of just the basement

Ah. Sorry. I didn't realize you were in your basement. No windows or whatnot to set the fan up in front of, I take it.

My sense of smell must not be as sharp as many folks'. I Airsoft in my living room, and honestly, except for that short blast when I finish topping off the mag and I lift the fill spout off the magazine inlet valve - and I can't say it smells particularly great at that point - I don't even notice it.

[Flyin40]

http://www.iigas.com/propane_msds.htm

Also here is a link for dangers of Silicone oil

http://fscimage.fish.../msds/77829.htm


Though this isn't about airsoft its kind of funny to see this quys results with different gases used in his spud gun

http://www.aaroncake.../spuds/boom.asp



I'll post some links as I find them



Flyin

This post has been edited by Flyin40: 23 September 2009 - 04:23 AM

[Anon]

I've been using propane all along (in the garage).

I will be switching to duster-gas in the winter, though. A little more expensive, but less likely to cause interactions with my natural-gas garage heater!

This post has been edited by Anon: 23 September 2009 - 04:29 AM

[Flyin40]

Anon, on Sep 23 2009, 07:28 AM, said:

I've been using propane all along (in the garage).

I will be switching to duster-gas in the winter, though. A little more expensive, but less likely to cause interactions with my natural-gas garage heater!

That was something I was wondering. With the duster gas does your gun still work well with the metal slide??

Flyin

[Flyin40]

I also wanted to add that if you shoot in your basement don't forget about your hot water heater and the flame. Mine is in a separte room but it was what I was really worried about with shooting in the basement.


Flyin

[Duane Thomas]

Quote

I will be switching to duster-gas in the winter, though. A little more expensive, but less likely to cause interactions with my natural-gas garage heater!

How so? Is duster gas not propane?

[Flyin40]

Quote

I will be switching to duster-gas in the winter, though. A little more expensive, but less likely to cause interactions with my natural-gas garage heater!

Quote

How so? Is duster gas not propane?

Quote

I've had lots of questions from people regarding gases to use in their airsoft GBB guns. There is a lot of misinformation on the Web related to this issue, so I thought it was time to present some hard science facts about airsoft gases.

The four gases most used for airsoft GBB guns are Green Gas, HFC-134a, Red Gas, and CO2. Green Gas is also known as Top Gas and is, in reality, nothing more than propane (with some perfume and silicone oil added). The main use for HFC-134a and Red Gas is in the refrigeration industry. Propane is also used as a refrigerant, but is primarily used as a fuel. In the refrigeration industry, propane is known as R-290 and Red Gas is known as HCFC-22.

The properties that make these gases good refrigerants is also what makes them good propellants for airsoft guns. At room temperature and atmospheric pressure they are all gases, but they can be liquified by putting them under pressure. When a gun\'s magazine is filled with one of these gases, what actually enters the magazine is a combination of liquid and gas (that's why you invert the can to fill the magazine). As long as there is still some liquid in the magazine, the pressure of gas above the liquid remains constant for a given temperature (this is called vapor pressure). As long as the temperature doesn't change and as long as there is some liquid in the magazine, the pressure of the gas propelling your BBs remains constant. Here are the vapor pressure vs. temperature data for all four gases.

It is easy to see from the data why guns with plastic slides need to use HFC-134a (stock TM Hi-Capa 5.1, Western Arms, etc.). The pressure of propane (Green or Top Gas) or Red Gas is simply too high for them to handle unless the magazine valve has been modified to limit the flow of gas. It's also easy to see why CO2 requires a special magazine and valve system. Its vapor pressure at room temperature is more than seven times larger than propane. Using CO2 in a magazine designed for Green Gas (propane) would blow the gun apart when it was fired.

If you are using an unmodified GBB pistol with a plastic slide, you should stick to using only HFC-134a. If you have a modified gun that includes a metal slide, enhanced recoil spring, and metal guide, then you can use Green Gas. From here on, we will stop using the term Green Gas and simply say propane. The long-term advantage of being able to use propane is cost. Propane is available through most discount stores and sporting goods stores for less that $3.00 for a 16 ounce can when sold as fuel for camp stoves (Coleman, Bernzomatic, etc.). Compare that to $15 for an 8 ounce can of Green Gas. Of course, you'll need an adapter to fill your magazines. The adapter can be purchased from Airsoft Innovations (http://www.airsoft-innovations.com/ for $25 and is shown below.

If you buy an adapter, be sure to buy some light-weight silicone oil (also from Airsoft Innovations). The oil is added to the propane to lubricate your gun and seals and also to reduce the flammability of the propane.

The adapter comes with instructions for adding the oil and filling your magazines. Another advantage to propane over commercial Green Gas is that the steel cylinders that propane fuel comes in are much safer to transport than the thin-walled cylinders that Green Gas is shipped in. The downside to using propane is that it doesn\'t contain the perfume that is usually added to Green Gas. Instead of smelling like petunias, your shooting area will smell a little like rotten eggs. (If your spouse complains, just remind him/her of the money you are saving using propane!)

A word about filling your magazines. If you've followed the discussion above, you\'ll realize that the pressure of gas in your magazine doesn't depend on the length of time you fill the magazine. As long as you get some liquid in the magazine, the pressure of the gas is independent of the amount of liquid present. The colder the magazine is when you fill it, the more liquid you will transfer to the magazine and the more shots you will get. However, if you get too much liquid in the magazine, then some of it will rush out when you fire the first few shots and spray you and your gun with liquid propellant. This wastes propellant and can damage parts of your gun (like the nozzle and piston seal) that weren't built to handle the pressure increase that results when the liquid vaporizes inside them. With a little practice, you'll find the right "charging time" for your magazines.

Flyin

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This post has been edited by Duane Thomas: 23 September 2009 - 09:51 AM

[xcelr8hard]

How many bb's are you guys getting from a can of green gas? Seems I am getting less than 1k. I am thinking that is kind of low. Switching to propane when I get my adaptor.
It's nice here in Az. so I am fortunate enough to practice outside all the time. Don't have to worry about the fumes.

Butch

[kaiserb]

RogerT, on Sep 23 2009, 05:46 AM, said:

How much propane does it take indoors before you have a combustible fuel mix?

The IDLH [Immediate Danger to Life and Health] concentration for Propane is 2200 ppm, which is based on the LEL [Lower Explosive Limit]. It must be noted that protection for chemical overexposures is not effective protection from burns in the event of a fire.

http://www.ebsinfo.c...SDS-Propane.pdf

[Duane Thomas]

Flyin,

Great, useful data. Thank you.

[GlockerJeff]

I got about 2000 to 2500 through my gun on one tank of Coleman gas.