[spankaveli]

Opinions are greatly appreciated. I just stared shooting uspsa in january so i'm still getting a grasp on everything.

the orange walls are hard cover, not soft but the program/website i was using only had that.

This post has been edited by spankaveli: 18 September 2009 - 01:37 PM

[Aristotle]

couple of thoughts:

1. Center position is illegal, more than 8 shots from a single location. You can eleviate that by putting vision barriers to the steel.

2. Potential ground strikes/shoot throughs' on T3-T4, same for the other side. I try to get them as close to the berm as possible, if not possible, use no shoots under the targets to prevent any shots to hit the ground. At my club anyhow that is a big no no.

3. I try and simplify my stage props so it's less effort for set up/break down. You can definitely use less walls on this stage.

4. It's not necessary to put in the description to "retrieve gun" etc, that's a given. My normal stage procedure will usually say " upon start signal, engage targets as they become "available" from within shooting area's only. yada yada"

5. I like to put a mark on the table and have the shooter place the gun with the trigger guard over the mark, for safety/consistency sake.

6. You may also want to add " gun must be unsupported by... blah blah blah." Otherwise expect me to place a magazine under the slide of my gun to prop it up for a quicker grab.

7. Try and tuck the table further up by the center position, this could be come a hazard for the RO when running the shooter. Always think about your RO as well when designing stages. And prop's like tables tend to "walk" during the course of a match, it's harder to index them down, next thing you know that table will be clear to the other side of the COF. If you have it against a wall, it at least is a good "index".

This post has been edited by Aristotle: 18 September 2009 - 09:53 AM

[SLM]

Would the center position be illegal as it looks like the poppers could be taken from the ports in the walls making it 8 in the center? Just wondering as I thought it was only illegal if you were forced to take more than 8 from one position?

[bofe954]

My understanding is that SLM is correct. You can have more than 8 shots available from a given position, you just can't make it so more than 8 shots have to be taken from a position.

[ChuckS]

Aristotle, on Sep 18 2009, 09:50 AM, said:

couple of thoughts:

1. Center position is illegal, more than 8 shots from a single location. You can eleviate that by putting vision barriers to the steel.

Not so sure about this. The way the drawing looks is that the poppers are available though the ports as well as the center and sides. Looks legal to me.


Later,
Chuck

[dvc40jim]

Looks like fun. Looks like if you were careful where you placed the outside targets you might be able to see and engage them from more than one spot... thereby creating the "freestyle" effect that sometimes leads to shooters forgetting targets or shooting more than once at targets.

As long as they can see the targets from more than one spot you're good to go. You just can't require more than 8 from one spot.

[spankaveli]

dvc40jim, on Sep 18 2009, 10:25 AM, said:

Looks like fun. Looks like if you were careful where you placed the outside targets you might be able to see and engage them from more than one spot... thereby creating the "freestyle" effect that sometimes leads to shooters forgetting targets or shooting more than once at targets.

As long as they can see the targets from more than one spot you're good to go. You just can't require more than 8 from one spot.

That's what I was going for.

[spankaveli]

Aristotle, on Sep 18 2009, 09:50 AM, said:

couple of thoughts:

1. Center position is illegal, more than 8 shots from a single location. You can eleviate that by putting vision barriers to the steel.

2. Potential ground strikes/shoot throughs' on T3-T4, same for the other side. I try to get them as close to the berm as possible, if not possible, use no shoots under the targets to prevent any shots to hit the ground. At my club anyhow that is a big no no.

3. I try and simplify my stage props so it's less effort for set up/break down. You can definitely use less walls on this stage.

4. It's not necessary to put in the description to "retrieve gun" etc, that's a given. My normal stage procedure will usually say " upon start signal, engage targets as they become "available" from within shooting area's only. yada yada"

5. I like to put a mark on the table and have the shooter place the gun with the trigger guard over the mark, for safety/consistency sake.

6. You may also want to add " gun must be unsupported by... blah blah blah." Otherwise expect me to place a magazine under the slide of my gun to prop it up for a quicker grab.

7. Try and tuck the table further up by the center position, this could be come a hazard for the RO when running the shooter. Always think about your RO as well when designing stages. And prop's like tables tend to "walk" during the course of a match, it's harder to index them down, next thing you know that table will be clear to the other side of the COF. If you have it against a wall, it at least is a good "index".

Thanks man. At the ranges we shoot at the ground strikes are not a big deal. Shoot throughs I'll have to look for though obviously.

I'll try to tweak it and take out a few walls. After you pointed it out, that does seem like alot.

[JThompson]

Looks to me like a shoot through to a NS target in the center, also possible shoot through from side port paper to steel.

[lynn jones]

level 1 it's all good.

lynn

[SA Friday]

Completely legal stage and a good one. On some of my stages, I like to leave the loopholes for table positioning completely open to see what people will come up with. Making the start a part of the puzzle to solve can be fun. You have multiple targets available from multiple positions. That's good. Having the table up a bit and a hindrance to movement is also something I've done in stages in the past. Perfectly legal and also adds to the puzzle, but you can have issues with this and people running into it while firing. I don't see an issue with it, but many may see it as a potential tripping hazard. Last guy I saw trip tripped on a rock in a wide open area... Opinions vary...

The only thing I see is some of the wording in the WSB can be polished up a little, and the two targets to the right and left may have to be adjusted to not have shoot through issues with the right and left ports. Push both of the inside targets back about a foot or two and it should be good to go.

I shoot for very simple WSB's on most of my stages. 'Upon start signal, engage targets as they become visible from within Area A.' Starting position: Standing behind table, gun unloaded lying flat and unpropped anywhere on table, hands relaxed at sides.

Very good stage. I'm gonna steal a copy for our area for possible future use.

[spankaveli]

Did a bit of tweaking after a bunch of helpful suggestions. This the first time I've ever even considered designing a stage so lots of things that were pointed out never crossed my mind.

[SA Friday]

Also a good stage, but the steel needs to be moved back. The steel in the second one is way too close to the front and engageable from the open spots in the side walls.

As a rule, you need at least 7 yds between the steel and the shooter. Most clubs run 10yds or more, and try to keep the steel towards the back berm to help with frag and possible bullets skipping over the berms.

[spankaveli]

Now the steel can be hit from either side or through the wall openings (openings can be replaced for walls with ports obviously)

This post has been edited by spankaveli: 18 September 2009 - 12:47 PM

[BayouSlide]

SA Friday, on Sep 18 2009, 01:52 PM, said:

Also a good stage, but the steel needs to be moved back. The steel in the second one is way too close to the front and engageable from the open spots in the side walls.

As a rule, you need at least 7 yds between the steel and the shooter. Most clubs run 10yds or more, and try to keep the steel towards the back berm to help with frag and possible bullets skipping over the berms.

Per 2.1.3, steel must be a minimum of 23 feet away, or 26 feet if only a fault line exists, to account for the possibility of a foot fault.

Curtis

[NMBOpen]

Start position should state unpropped on table rather than unsupported. I haven't figured out levitation just yet

[SA Friday]

spankaveli, on Sep 18 2009, 01:43 PM, said:

Now the steel can be hit from either side or through the wall openings (openings can be replaced for walls with ports obviously)

Ya, now that's good stuff. You can walk off the steel and place it based on the closest engagement location. Make sure the front two targets on each far end are placed well forward of the side openings and the rest can be engaged from the side openings legally. This is a really solid stage.

This post has been edited by SA Friday: 18 September 2009 - 01:01 PM

[BayouSlide]

Spanky, you want to make sure that there are no paper targets in line with your steel from any potential shooting location. It looks you may have a problem with that unless it was addressed during set up. Per 9.1.5.2, a shoot through that strikes down a popper is considered range equipment failure, necessitating reshoots and resulting in match delays.

Curtis

[SA Friday]

BayouSlide, on Sep 18 2009, 02:01 PM, said:

Spanky, you want to make sure that there are no paper targets in line with your steel from any potential shooting location. It looks you may have a problem with that unless it was addressed during set up. Per 9.1.5.2, a shoot through that strikes down a popper is considered range equipment failure, necessitating reshoots and resulting in match delays.

Curtis

Set T 3-4 and T 11-12 really low and the steel back to the 10 yd spot and you are going to be fine.

[spankaveli]

I think the way the steel is positioned there should be no shoot through issues either from the ports or the outsides. It might need to be tweaked during setup but I'm going to play with it some more.

Thanks again for all the help.

[BayouSlide]

SA Friday, on Sep 18 2009, 03:05 PM, said:

Set T 3-4 and T 11-12 really low and the steel back to the 10 yd spot and you are going to be fine.

You can always use your Stage Setup Notes for particulars like this as well.

Nice work

Curtis

[open17]

Aristotle, on Sep 18 2009, 09:50 AM, said:

couple of thoughts:

1. Center position is illegal, more than 8 shots from a single location. You can eleviate that by putting vision barriers to the steel.

Ummm---No.


Course design
and construction must not require more than 8 scoring hits from
any single location or view, nor allow a competitor to shoot all
targets in the course of fire from any single location or view.

Those extra targets are also available from other locations--the side ports. You can ALLOW all but one shot from
one location, you just can't REQUIRE more than eight from any one location.

[Aristotle]

lol, I got the point after the first 3 or 4 posts, thanks.

You guys are rite, I stand corrected, I have no problem saying that. :-)

hey spank, you can always adjust the side fault lines so there will not be any chance at a shoot through. Looks much better. I have found it helps to also add the berm angles, locations. As for the props, suggestion would be maybe use a single wall with a port. 2 less walls you/they have to build. If you want to do something different, make the port a funky cut. Otherwise looks solid.

See you in a few weeks at A4 Spank. ;-)

This post has been edited by Aristotle: 18 September 2009 - 09:01 PM

[spankaveli]

Thanks dude. I'm gonna work on a few more this week. :cool:

Yep, see ya in a few weeks

[JThompson]

spankaveli, on Sep 18 2009, 01:43 PM, said:

Now the steel can be hit from either side or through the wall openings (openings can be replaced for walls with ports obviously)

You still have one shoot through issue here. I leave it to you to find it.