[rgkeller]

What category awards were given out at the Open/Production awards ceremony?

Thanks

[Nemo]

I'm not sure about the overall distribution of the category awards but it stroke me as "unusual" that high junior production division (my son) didn't get an award. I would've thought that a nationals win would be recognized if there were more than one competitors in the category. There were 4 juniors in production. I understand that no 1st, 2nd and 3rd awards were given, but one plaque to 1st place woud've not hurt the prizes budget.

[rgkeller]

that is what I was afraid would happen

[L-10_shooter]

I think they need 5 people to shoot in order to get plaques and awards and such. Just short in your case. Sounds like he did a great job.

[steel1212]

I've been on the short end of that myself Nemo, it sucks. Pm in bound though for an idea.

[Jaxshooter]

Nemo I agree, he did great and should be recognized. They are right about 5 or more though.

[Nemo]

That's what I thought. Steely gave me a good idea that I'm gonna follow up on.

[Nik Habicht]

Unfortunately Appendix A2 of the rulebook covers it......

[rtr]

Buddy of mine won Production Super Senior but didn't get a plaque either, I guess that means there weren't 5 production super senior shooters.

[NMBOpen]

We have Platinum, Gold, Silver, and Bronze level sponsorships, and stage sponsorships. Why not sponsored awards for 1st in category? If the field is deep enough then USPSA covers 2 through n per A2. The <Sponsor Name Here> TOP <category> in <division> Award

This post has been edited by NMCOpen: 16 September 2009 - 01:17 PM

[fourtrax]

I ran into this at Area 5, luckily for me Carl Provan was running that match and got a plaque to me. I remember kicking around some ideas at the time on how to alleviate this, but nothing concrete ever came of it. I wish your son could have gotten a big "trophy/plaque" for his dedication and practice.
I feel for him! What an accomplishment on the National level, kudos!!

[Nemo]

NMCOpen, on Sep 16 2009, 03:56 PM, said:

We have Platinum, Gold, Silver, and Bronze level sponsorships, and stage sponsorships. Why not sponsored awards for 1st in category? If the field is deep enough then USPSA covers 2 through n per A2. The <Sponsor Name Here> TOP <category> in <division> Award

Speed Shooter Specialties likes this idea and Kenny just told me that they would like to sponsor the junior trophies/mementos.

This post has been edited by Nemo: 16 September 2009 - 02:43 PM

[NMBOpen]

Nemo, on Sep 16 2009, 03:43 PM, said:

NMCOpen, on Sep 16 2009, 03:56 PM, said:

We have Platinum, Gold, Silver, and Bronze level sponsorships, and stage sponsorships. Why not sponsored awards for 1st in category? If the field is deep enough then USPSA covers 2 through n per A2. The <Sponsor Name Here> TOP <category> in <division> Award

Speed Shooter Specialties likes this idea and Kenny just told me that they would like to sponsor the junior trophies/mementos.

I'm glad the idea has some traction. I hate to see the efforts, Francisco and others, go not just unrewarded but ignored. With the good people in this sport I'm sure others will step up for Ladies, Law, Military, Foreign, Senior, and Super Senior as well.

[Gwhiz]

If a category is recognized, 1st should always be awarded. The shooter did their part; the match just did not attract enough shooters for that category. .02

[shootingchef]

Gwhiz, on Sep 16 2009, 03:29 PM, said:

If a category is recognized, 1st should always be awarded. The shooter did their part; the match just did not attract enough shooters for that category. .02

always is.


The real issue is, if there is enough interest in the division for recognition. revolver and Lim. 10 have a tough go at it. Hard to recognize the division when there is only 2 poeple in it, out of a 246 shooter match. The rule book is very specific about awards and such at Level 3 matches. I don't like these restrictions and will petition my AD for a change, maybe a little leeway for the MD. Its real hard to find 10 people to recognize a class.

[blownhemi]

Must be a USPSA thing. I know at our IPSC Nationals here in Oz they give awards for the sub categories like Junior, Senior, Super Senior, Women's etc.

If you give a womens award you should give a junior award, at least a first place, it really is that simple. More than five shooter in the category, then do the top three places. Just my opinion.

edit: So I just went back and looked at our entrant lists for the Aussie IPSC Nationals and we had at least five in almost every category, but I do remember seeing awards for the couple categories that didn't have five (like ladies production). But all the others had five or more in every category (Junior, Senior, Super Senior, Ladies, plus the grades GM, M, A, B, C, D and Rookie).

So it makes we wonder why we can fill out almost every sub category here in Australia where gun ownship is hard but not there in the US where gun ownership is easy. What is scaring people away from competing at a national level?

This post has been edited by blownhemi: 16 September 2009 - 04:22 PM

[Bwana Six-Gun]

Nemo, on Sep 16 2009, 01:05 PM, said:

I'm not sure about the overall distribution of the category awards but it stroke me as "unusual" that high junior production division (my son) didn't get an award. I would've thought that a nationals win would be recognized if there were more than one competitors in the category. There were 4 juniors in production. I understand that no 1st, 2nd and 3rd awards were given, but one plaque to 1st place woud've not hurt the prizes budget.

That sucks! The juniors are the future of our sport! Whether there is one or one hundred, juniors should always be recognized! I hope the everyone at home lets Francisco know what he has accomplished. He is tops in my book.


Bwana Six-Gun

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I shot with "Hollywood" as they call him He did a great job and was having fun as well. He handled all the kidding very well and should have an award for just that. I think all of the juniors should get something to make them feel proud of what they have just done Those trophies are only a couple of bucks each and would be there keepsake for a long time. Nelson you should be very proud of that young man. Thanks, Eric

[blownhemi]

Be careful falling into the "Everyone gets a prize" trap. Something given has no value but I agree the juniors should have something to aim for at the end of the match. Was it a reduced entry fee for juniors?

[Flexmoney]

blownhemi, on Sep 16 2009, 06:57 PM, said:

Must be a USPSA thing. I know at our IPSC Nationals here in Oz they give awards for the sub categories like Junior, Senior, Super Senior, Women's etc.

If you give a womens award you should give a junior award, at least a first place, it really is that simple. More than five shooter in the category, then do the top three places. Just my opinion.

edit: So I just went back and looked at our entrant lists for the Aussie IPSC Nationals and we had at least five in almost every category, but I do remember seeing awards for the couple categories that didn't have five (like ladies production). But all the others had five or more in every category (Junior, Senior, Super Senior, Ladies, plus the grades GM, M, A, B, C, D and Rookie).

So it makes we wonder why we can fill out almost every sub category here in Australia where gun ownship is hard but not there in the US where gun ownership is easy. What is scaring people away from competing at a national level?

IPSC is the same/similar for Level III matches.

Reference Appendix A2 in either the USPSA or the IPSC rule books for the requirements.

[JThompson]

Screw that Nemo... go get one made for the kid, I'll help kick in for him.......

[blownhemi]

So you've got to ask yourselves why people from these categories aren't entering? How many people are there registered for USPSA, I remember seeing the figure 16,000 somewhere. And you can't get five juniors to shoot in the same division? Something needs to be changed if that's the case.

I'm not trying to make this a IPSC v USPSA thing. I'm just saying that if people aren't entering these categories there has to be a reason.

Here's the figures from our Darwin Nationals last year. Darwin is about as far from anywhere on the planet. There's not alot to do there really and it's hot and sticky so as a destination it ranks pretty low.

Here's the breakdown of the various divisions.

OPEN - 107 competitors
Ladies - 17
Junior - 6
Senior - 23
Super Senior - 19

Production - 70 Competitors
Ladies - 3 (still got awards)
Junior - 6
Senior - 7
Super Senior - 6

Standard - 63 competitors
Ladies - 9
Junior - 2 (still got awards)
Senior - 14
Super Senior - 8



In Vegas you guys had: (roughly counted)

Open - 281 competitors (more than our whole nationals 8) )
Ladies - 31
Junior - 10
Senior - 49
Super Senior - 5

Production - 145 competitors
Ladies - 12
Junior - 4
Senior - 10
Super Senior - 2

So why, in a country where shooting sports are so huge, are the Juniors and Super Seniors staying away?

[shootingchef]

for Juniors, there is School to consider, they would have missed at least 2 days. Some parents won't pull their kid out for that long. As for the super seniors, they can't see well enough to shoot production,

[blownhemi]

We Aussies have the same issues - jobs, school, etc. Maybe people just don't put enough value on the Nationals there.

[lneel]

shootingchef, on Sep 16 2009, 09:06 PM, said:

for Juniors, there is School to consider, they would have missed at least 2 days. Some parents won't pull their kid out for that long. As for the super seniors, they can't see well enough to shoot production,

Actually my son Nick was out of school for 4 days! Friday for travel, Mon/Tues still shooting and Wednesday travelling home. We have done it the last 3 years and find it damaging to his first 6 weeks no matter how he tries to catch up.

As stated before, Juniors are the future of our sport and why the Nationals are held just as the school year is starting is strange to me. June in Las Vegas sounds good!

Also, his High Junior trophy for a Nationals event of any kind was a bit disappointing. No disrespect to who made it, just wonder why USPSA had to cheap out on something that could inspire rather than disappoint. The sponsor trophies were nicer than the competitors.