[leam]

I have few different primer types and I'd like to do a little comparison between them. What sorts of things would be valuable to someone making a primer purchase? For example, besides ignition failures, maybe depth of firing pin indent? Does a regular primer affect velocity significantly? Anything else?

Thanks!

Leam

[Merlin Orr]

Other than the "real" precision shooting disciplines where 001 in group size matters....

Ignition every time the firing pin impacts. Nothing else makes a damned bit of difference. At the distances we shoot and the accuracy requirements of the shooting sports found here, the rest is just not worth worrying over.

[M ammo]

Merlin Orr, on Sep 13 2009, 10:18 AM, said:

Other than the "real" precision shooting disciplines where 001 in group size matters....

Ignition every time the firing pin impacts. Nothing else makes a damned bit of difference. At the distances we shoot and the accuracy requirements of the shooting sports found here, the rest is just not worth worrying over.

+1

Merlin is right again!!

Jim M ammo

[BayouSlide]

The only thing that may make a difference for you is primer sensitivity, depending on your set up. Trigger work on pistols or revolvers may lighten the strike on the primer, making more sensitive primers more reliable than harder primers.

Curtis


Edited: 'cause I hate typos!

This post has been edited by BayouSlide: 13 September 2009 - 01:48 PM

[D. Manley]

Merlin Orr, on Sep 13 2009, 12:18 PM, said:

Other than the "real" precision shooting disciplines where 001 in group size matters....

Ignition every time the firing pin impacts. Nothing else makes a damned bit of difference. At the distances we shoot and the accuracy requirements of the shooting sports found here, the rest is just not worth worrying over.

+1, my sentiments exactly.

[Joe4d]

D. Manley, on Sep 13 2009, 04:44 PM, said:

Merlin Orr, on Sep 13 2009, 12:18 PM, said:

Other than the "real" precision shooting disciplines where 001 in group size matters....

Ignition every time the firing pin impacts. Nothing else makes a damned bit of difference. At the distances we shoot and the accuracy requirements of the shooting sports found here, the rest is just not worth worrying over.

+1, my sentiments exactly.

Well I would add , actually being able to find some at non price gouge prices.

[bball97]

leam, on Sep 13 2009, 01:00 PM, said:

I have few different primer types and I'd like to do a little comparison between them. What sorts of things would be valuable to someone making a primer purchase? For example, besides ignition failures, maybe depth of firing pin indent? Does a regular primer affect velocity significantly? Anything else?

Thanks!

Leam

I agree with everyone so far. I have used several brands and can't tell the difference in anything but appearance.

[Rob Boudrie]

Something I've always wanted to do:

Build a test fixture that will drop a ball bearing onto a firing pin. Use varying heights to do a detailed quantitive analysis of the difference in sensitivity between brands.

[leam]

Rob Boudrie, on Sep 13 2009, 06:43 PM, said:

Something I've always wanted to do:

Build a test fixture that will drop a ball bearing onto a firing pin. Use varying heights to do a detailed quantitive analysis of the difference in sensitivity between brands.

Hmm...I wonder how to make it so you could relate the impact required to "foot pounds of pressure" or some other measurement? FOr example, a 1 pound weight wouldn't deviate much from primer to primer, a 1 ounce weight might deviate greatly but not be significant in that deviation.

Interesting thought though, I think I'll see what I can do. Of course, suggestions from any of our engineers would be helpful.

Leam

[DUKE]

Which ever primers are consistent in your set up. {Or whatever brand primer you can find} Load um up Leam and have fun!

[Pezco]

I'm with the group saying if it goes bang 100% use them. I am also concerned about how they seat.

[leam]

I'm not trying to get an incremental boost in anything, more just trying to dispell or prove myths I've heard aobut different primer makers. Since primers are hard to find right now I can choose to buy Wolf brand that Bobby has in stock or I can wait and see. In that things aren't likely to get better any time soon, not sure how long I want to wait or what I'll see down the road. On another forum a guy says he's shot 8,000 plus Wolf primers with no failures. That sounds like a good statistic to me...

Leam

This post has been edited by leam: 16 September 2009 - 03:17 PM

[Jman]

lean,

you're good to go with Wolf primers. Load 'em up.

Jim

[mrg]

Pezco, on Sep 14 2009, 07:52 AM, said:

I'm with the group saying if it goes bang 100% use them. I am also concerned about how they seat.

Agree, had one manufacture's that were difficult (at best) to seat. Manufacturer agreed some were out of spec, but wouldn't stand behind their product. I don't use that brand anymore!

[D. Manley]

leam, on Sep 16 2009, 05:14 PM, said:

I'm not trying to get an incremental boost in anything, more just trying to dispell or prove myths I've heard aobut different primer makers. Since primers are hard to find right now I can choose to buy Wolf brand that Bobby has in stock or I can wait and see. In that things aren't likely to get better any time soon, not sure how long I want to wait or what I'll see down the road. On another forum a guy says he's shot 8,000 plus Wolf primers with no failures. That sounds like a good statistic to me...

Leam

I don't think you'll have any problems with the Wolf primers in a stock gun but they are a bit harder to light and a few people here have reported problems seating them. I've not really had any seating issues with Wolf but did have ignition problems in my Glocks running tuned triggers and have gone back to Federal. As a baseline check, I can run the Wolfs 100% in the same guns with stock triggers.

[Bill Nesbitt]

Rob Boudrie, on Sep 13 2009, 06:43 PM, said:

Something I've always wanted to do:

Build a test fixture that will drop a ball bearing onto a firing pin. Use varying heights to do a detailed quantitive analysis of the difference in sensitivity between brands.

Rob, I have a machine that will do that. It's called a revolver. Just back out the strain screw and measure the trigger pull. Try different types of primers and adjust the trigger pull.

[diablodawg]

Just finished my first thousand Wolf... one failure to ignite. No seating difficulties besides two strange instances of primers going in backwards, but I believe it is my technique.

They are Large Pistol Primers in .45acp through a STI Trojan, stock hammer and spring.

[rfwobbly]

Merlin Orr, on Sep 13 2009, 01:18 PM, said:

Other than the "real" precision shooting disciplines where 001 in group size matters....

Ignition every time the firing pin impacts. Nothing else makes a damned bit of difference. At the distances we shoot and the accuracy requirements of the shooting sports found here, the rest is just not worth worrying over.

Agreed. The only consideration that even comes close has to do more with the reloading process than the actual ignition. Considerations like ease of getting into the primer tray, propensity to stick or hang up in the primer drop tube, "feel" during seating process, etc.

I.e. I like the way Federal primers shoot, but I hate fumbling with those huge primer trays they come in.

This post has been edited by rfwobbly: 17 September 2009 - 10:23 AM

[NoSteel]

Personal preference if they go bang. I prefer CCI, Federal but recently switch to Wolf's SPP and they have worked well. Add me to the list of seating issues (approx 1 /100) with the new Wolf SPP's. Still happy with them for the price though. I would be interested in knowing strike pressure to make each mfg's ignite.

[kframe_mike]

It seems like these days,availability ranks right up there for me.Other than that,for my autos,whatever goes bang.For my revos,after un-tuning,whatever goes bang.-Mike

[leam]

Well, finally got a little time free to try some primer testing. Learned a little, came up with some questions, and made sure I let the neighbors know I was doing a little work on my side of the duplex.

Tested 5 each of Winchester, CCI and Wolf Large Pistol primers. Gun is a Sistema in .45 ACP, with stock mainspring. Before testing I scraped out each primer pocket then cleaned it with Hoppe's #9. All brass was RP.

When priming, Winchester primer #2 got turned in the priming tool tube so was discarded and replaced. Other than that, all primers when in easily. No undue pressure was required and all were seated at or a few thou below the bottom of the case.

When firing, I wanted to see what the primers put out so I shot a piece of white computer paper. Winchester #1 was too close. After that the muzzle was about 8" from the paper, and uniformity was maintained by putting the paper on one side of a box and my fingers on the grip at the other end. The 8" measure was based on the length of the box minus the front strap to muzzle distance.

Winchester #2-#5 gave the most uniform particle print. CCI had the most instances of large particles mixed in with regular, with CCI #1 having 15-20 large particles and the rest of the CCI and the Wolf having 0-4. I would post a picture of the paper but the prints are very light. If anyone really knows what they're doing, PM me with your address and I'll send it to you.

An interesting note is that all primers backed out of the pocket by a significant amount. There's probably a simple reason for this but I found it surprising. Of the three primer types, CCI seemed the most rounded after firing, and Wolf seemed to hold it's shape better. Winchester was in the middle. The Wolf primers seem less deformed, that makes me think the primer hull is a bit more solid. Depth of indention on all primers was significant, no chance of light strikes. Atain, if someone really knows what they're doing, let me know. I'd love to know if there's more information that can be extracted from the evidence.

Hope that helps in choosing primers.

Leam

[bumper]

leam, on Sep 25 2009, 04:10 PM, said:

An interesting note is that all primers backed out of the pocket by a significant amount. There's probably a simple reason for this but I found it surprising. Of the three primer types, CCI seemed the most rounded after firing, and Wolf seemed to hold it's shape better. Winchester was in the middle. The Wolf primers seem less deformed, that makes me think the primer hull is a bit more solid. Depth of indention on all primers was significant, no chance of light strikes. Atain, if someone really knows what they're doing, let me know. I'd love to know if there's more information that can be extracted from the evidence.

Hope that helps in choosing primers.

Leam

It's not surprising at all that the primers backed out! Nor that the depth of the firing pin indentation was significant.

Consider that when firing a normal round with powder, the brass is driven back against the bolt, this keeps the primer from backing out further than flush with the case. With primer only and no poweder, the force (thrust) of the primer drives it back out of the case, but the case does not move back against the bolt as it would normally - - rather it moves forward as much as it can, being first driven forward by the impact of the firing pin and then by the explosion of the primer. Meanwhile the primer backing out of the case allows the relatively soft metal cup to "form", to a degree, around the still extended firing pin.

bumper

[flack jacket]

Great info guys. I'm using a production gun so my gear seams to light all types of primers.

I don't care the brand as long as I can "Send it!!"