[Arkansas48]

I have been shooting IDPA for short while and my gun of choice is a Taurus PT92. To ready the gun I have always inserted the magazine, racked the slide, lowered the hammer with my thumb (I have both decocker and no decocker models, but I generally use my thumb on all of them), and holster the gun (safety off). Today, at a match, I had a SO tell me "No with that weapon you are to start with the hammer cocked, the safety on and the gun holstered”. I’m not sure he was familiar with the 92 since he first asked if the gun was Double Action. Comments?

[mountaincoulee]

What Division were you registered to shoot the match in?

As I understand it, many DA/SA Production-approved handguns can be started cocked&locked in Limited and L10 provided the gun has a safety rather than a decocker.

Here's a cut&paste of the Production div. handguns from the USPSA website:

Taurus: "24/7 (27.5 oz.), PT100 (34 oz.), PT101 (34 oz.), PT111 (18.7 oz.), PT140 (18.7 oz.), PT145 (23 oz.), PT911 (28.2 oz.), PT92 (34 oz.), PT940 (28.2 oz.), PT945 (29.5 oz.), PT99 (34 oz.)
C Models not allowed. Any DAO or DA/SA revolver with a barrel length of up to 8.5" is approved. All listed models must be DAO, DA/SA or with a decocker only."

Incidentally, I compete with a DA/SA handgun, sometimes in IPSC Standard Div., sometimes in Production. If at a match there are too few competitors in Production (happens at my local club), I run it Standard (C&L) and accept that Cs and Ds will be more costly. At a bigger match, I'll run it in Prod.

[wanderer]

idpa rules in SSP state that da/sa guns must start hammer down.
i will make one comment incase you ever try uspsa.
if the gun is fitted with a decocker, it must be used to decock the gun. a finger on the trigger to manually decock is a DQ.

This post has been edited by wanderer: 12 September 2009 - 07:30 PM

[Walküre]

As stated, depends on the division.

For IDPA SSP, it must be decocked.

For USPSA Production, it must be decocked.

For IPSC Production, it must be decocked.

For all other divisions in all three sports (IDPA ESP, USPSA Ltd/L10/Open, IPSC Std/Mod/Open), it can either be decocked or cocked-and-locked.

Also, as stated, USPSA requires that if you have a decocker that you use it (if starting from DA). See rule 10.5.9. I don't know whether or not IPSC includes this provision as well, and have absolutely no idea about the status of such actions in IDPA.

[twodownzero]

Yet another rule that needs to be changed. Match DQ for something that nearly every CZ owner has to do in order to comply with the rules? Sorry, but that doesn't make any sense.

While I personally think thumbing down a hammer is unnecessarily unsafe, once the line goes hot, nothing should be grounds for a DQ unless it is unsafe. This is one area where the USPSA needs to take a serious look at its rules and what they're trying to accomplish.

[wanderer]

twodownzero, on Sep 13 2009, 09:32 PM, said:

Yet another rule that needs to be changed. Match DQ for something that nearly every CZ owner has to do in order to comply with the rules? Sorry, but that doesn't make any sense.

While I personally think thumbing down a hammer is unnecessarily unsafe, once the line goes hot, nothing should be grounds for a DQ unless it is unsafe. This is one area where the USPSA needs to take a serious look at its rules and what they're trying to accomplish.

it's quite simple really, they are trying to accomplish a safe range for everyone on it. as you said yourself, thumbing down a hammer is unsafe. any AD is potentually unsafe therefore a DQ offence. so the rule "no finger on the trigger unless pointing at a target" is trying to achieve just that.
decockers are there to safely lower the hammer, on non decockers, you just have to make sure you do it the safest way possible.

This post has been edited by wanderer: 13 September 2009 - 04:56 AM

[Walküre]

twodownzero, on Sep 13 2009, 05:32 AM, said:

Yet another rule that needs to be changed. Match DQ for something that nearly every CZ owner has to do in order to comply with the rules? Sorry, but that doesn't make any sense.

It's pretty simple really. Keep your finger off the trigger and outside of the trigger guard at all times unless you are preparing to fire. The only exceptions provided are for decocking the hammer on a non-decocker pistol and for dropping the hammer for the "if clear..." command. There is no reason for your finger to be anywhere near the trigger when loading and readying the pistol if you have a decocker (or if you are starting C&L in SA).

[Flexmoney]

Folks, lets leave the rules debates (what ought to be) out the beginners forum. If you want to explore that discussion, it belongs in the rules forum (do a search first...we may have beat that horse already ).

- Admin

[Flexmoney]

Arkansas48, on Sep 12 2009, 07:53 PM, said:

I have been shooting IDPA for short while and my gun of choice is a Taurus PT92. To ready the gun I have always inserted the magazine, racked the slide, lowered the hammer with my thumb (I have both decocker and no decocker models, but I generally use my thumb on all of them), and holster the gun (safety off). Today, at a match, I had a SO tell me "No with that weapon you are to start with the hammer cocked, the safety on and the gun holstered”. I’m not sure he was familiar with the 92 since he first asked if the gun was Double Action. Comments?

Arkansas48,

It sounds like the SO was mistaken. Your double action gun should be started in double action mode. Unless you were shooting a division that allows the gun to start in single-action...then it would be an option.

[Arkansas48]

Perfect, you answered my question and it was as I expected. I appreciate the responses.

BTW, for your rules discussion.....on the PT92 the only way to use the decocker on decocker models is to press the decocking lever down and then pull the trigger (so much for the discussion on "finger off the trigger when using the decocker").

Thanks again.

[Walküre]

Arkansas48, on Sep 13 2009, 06:13 PM, said:

BTW, for your rules discussion.....on the PT92 the only way to use the decocker on decocker models is to press the decocking lever down and then pull the trigger (so much for the discussion on "finger off the trigger when using the decocker").

Interesting - I've handled some PT92s and PT99s and never noticed any such requirement. A friend of mine used to own a PT99, and I never saw him have to pull the trigger while decocking.

Perhaps a difference in old and new production?