[SV-COP]

I use AAA 38 Super and SC for my new OPen gun and my Wilson Combat pistols. I'm having about 10% of my ammo that will not fire. The primers have a light primer strike, but I suspect the ammo and not the three pistols. Any ideas? Will an extra long M2i firing pin solve the problem?

Thanks
Trace

[uscbigdawg]

Long firing pin or a heavier mainspring.

Too many folks use too light a mainspring for the "magic" trigger job.

Rich

[GrumpyOne]

uscbigdawg, on Aug 29 2009, 07:01 PM, said:

Long firing pin or a heavier mainspring.

Too many folks use too light a mainspring for the "magic" trigger job.

Rich

+1 on the heavier mainspring. Go too long with the firing pin and bad juju can happen (pierced primers, etc.).

[G-ManBart]

GrumpyOne, on Aug 29 2009, 07:14 PM, said:

uscbigdawg, on Aug 29 2009, 07:01 PM, said:

Long firing pin or a heavier mainspring.

Too many folks use too light a mainspring for the "magic" trigger job.

Rich

+1 on the heavier mainspring. Go too long with the firing pin and bad juju can happen (pierced primers, etc.).

That's true in some instances, but I have the M2i long firing pin in four guns (two 38SC Open guns, .40 Lim and .40SS) and I've never had a pierced primer. It's shaped to block primer flow as much as it is to ensure a solid primer hit. R,

[kmca]

rangertrace, on Aug 29 2009, 03:58 PM, said:

I use AAA 38 Super and SC for my new OPen gun and my Wilson Combat pistols. I'm having about 10% of my ammo that will not fire. The primers have a light primer strike, but I suspect the ammo and not the three pistols. Any ideas? Will an extra long M2i firing pin solve the problem?

Thanks
Trace

Since you suspect the ammunition, did you try it a second time and did it go off? If so, I would suspect primers that aren't fully seated.

[shootingchef]

19# mainspring will fix this , add a long firing pin and it won't happen again, at least with properly seated ammo.

[G-ManBart]

kmca, on Aug 29 2009, 09:16 PM, said:

rangertrace, on Aug 29 2009, 03:58 PM, said:

I use AAA 38 Super and SC for my new OPen gun and my Wilson Combat pistols. I'm having about 10% of my ammo that will not fire. The primers have a light primer strike, but I suspect the ammo and not the three pistols. Any ideas? Will an extra long M2i firing pin solve the problem?

Thanks
Trace

Since you suspect the ammunition, did you try it a second time and did it go off? If so, I would suspect primers that aren't fully seated.

He's using new Atlanta Arms & Ammo .38 Super and Supercomp....very unlikely that they have high primers. R,

[pjb45]

+3 on the M2i long firing pin. I had a bunch of Coast Guard surplus .40 S&W ammo. I was getting a lot of failure to ignite. Changed to a M2i and no problems. I have it all my 40S&W guns.

[uscbigdawg]

I'll throw another big +1 one to an extended firing pin. I've got the M2i as well as the Limcat and both are great and have had no pierced primers running 178PF ammo in my open guns.

Rich

[SV-COP]

Very cool. I'll order one tomorrow!

[kmca]

G-ManBart, on Aug 29 2009, 07:29 PM, said:

kmca, on Aug 29 2009, 09:16 PM, said:

rangertrace, on Aug 29 2009, 03:58 PM, said:

I use AAA 38 Super and SC for my new OPen gun and my Wilson Combat pistols. I'm having about 10% of my ammo that will not fire. The primers have a light primer strike, but I suspect the ammo and not the three pistols. Any ideas? Will an extra long M2i firing pin solve the problem?

Thanks
Trace

Since you suspect the ammunition, did you try it a second time and did it go off? If so, I would suspect primers that aren't fully seated.

He's using new Atlanta Arms & Ammo .38 Super and Supercomp....very unlikely that they have high primers. R,

Don't know but it seems strange he's having the same problem in3 different guns.

[GrumpyOne]

G-ManBart, on Aug 29 2009, 08:23 PM, said:

GrumpyOne, on Aug 29 2009, 07:14 PM, said:

uscbigdawg, on Aug 29 2009, 07:01 PM, said:

Long firing pin or a heavier mainspring.

Too many folks use too light a mainspring for the "magic" trigger job.

Rich

+1 on the heavier mainspring. Go too long with the firing pin and bad juju can happen (pierced primers, etc.).

That's true in some instances, but I have the M2i long firing pin in four guns (two 38SC Open guns, .40 Lim and .40SS) and I've never had a pierced primer. It's shaped to block primer flow as much as it is to ensure a solid primer hit. R,

I always thought (and was told by others), that a longer firing pin could also cause a discharge when you dropped the slide, since it doesn't have to travel as far to contact the primer. But if you guys say yes, it's ok, then I believe you.

[steel1212]

GrumpyOne, on Aug 29 2009, 11:43 PM, said:

G-ManBart, on Aug 29 2009, 08:23 PM, said:

GrumpyOne, on Aug 29 2009, 07:14 PM, said:

uscbigdawg, on Aug 29 2009, 07:01 PM, said:

Long firing pin or a heavier mainspring.

Too many folks use too light a mainspring for the "magic" trigger job.

Rich

+1 on the heavier mainspring. Go too long with the firing pin and bad juju can happen (pierced primers, etc.).

That's true in some instances, but I have the M2i long firing pin in four guns (two 38SC Open guns, .40 Lim and .40SS) and I've never had a pierced primer. It's shaped to block primer flow as much as it is to ensure a solid primer hit. R,

I always thought (and was told by others), that a longer firing pin could also cause a discharge when you dropped the slide, since it doesn't have to travel as far to contact the primer. But if you guys say yes, it's ok, then I believe you.

You also wanna make sure that it doesn't stick out of the FP hole either or it will keep the round from chambering. I run the Dawson Hyper drives in all my guns. A good Smith though can make a nice trigger with a 19# main spring. I have to use a 19# on my .45 that I use my .22 topend on and its nice also.

[uscbigdawg]

Given that it's Atlanta Arms & Ammo, ammo, I would strongly agree that the ammo is not the problem.

Rich

[G-ManBart]

kmca, on Aug 29 2009, 11:12 PM, said:

G-ManBart, on Aug 29 2009, 07:29 PM, said:

kmca, on Aug 29 2009, 09:16 PM, said:

rangertrace, on Aug 29 2009, 03:58 PM, said:

I use AAA 38 Super and SC for my new OPen gun and my Wilson Combat pistols. I'm having about 10% of my ammo that will not fire. The primers have a light primer strike, but I suspect the ammo and not the three pistols. Any ideas? Will an extra long M2i firing pin solve the problem?

Thanks
Trace

Since you suspect the ammunition, did you try it a second time and did it go off? If so, I would suspect primers that aren't fully seated.

He's using new Atlanta Arms & Ammo .38 Super and Supercomp....very unlikely that they have high primers. R,

Don't know but it seems strange he's having the same problem in3 different guns.

Well they are using small rifle primers (AA&A), so that's part of it. I've shot less than a thousand of the AA&A 38SC but it all worked perfectly and I've never heard of a single case of anyone finding high primers in their ammo before. Anything is possible, but it's both 38SC and 38 Super so it's definitely different lots of ammo. I'd be really surprised that they had a problem with more than one load at the same time.

I'd expect that the Wilson and the the Eagle (think that's what the other gun was) both have standard length firing pins and from our offline discussion it sounds like his new Open gun has a standard length FP in it as well. I'd be really interested to see what the mainspring is in that gun as well. I'm running 19lb springs in all of my guns (along with the M2i FP) and all will light SR primers just fine.

The good thing is that an extended FP is an easy fix to try

[uscbigdawg]

G-ManBart, on Aug 29 2009, 09:03 PM, said:

The good thing is that an extended FP is an easy fix to try

Come on Bart. I'm about the least handy guy when it comes to 1911's, but changing a Mainspring isn't that hard either.

Rich

[G-ManBart]

GrumpyOne, on Aug 29 2009, 11:43 PM, said:

I always thought (and was told by others), that a longer firing pin could also cause a discharge when you dropped the slide, since it doesn't have to travel as far to contact the primer. But if you guys say yes, it's ok, then I believe you.

I don't think I can recall ever hearing of that happen. With so many folks running extended firing pins I think we'd have heard about it a long time ago.

Actually, this gives me an idea for an experiment. Live primer in an empty case, no firing pin spring at all, or a very short one just to keep the pin centered and see if dropping the slide would be enough to cause a slam fire.

[G-ManBart]

uscbigdawg, on Aug 30 2009, 12:06 AM, said:

G-ManBart, on Aug 29 2009, 09:03 PM, said:

The good thing is that an extended FP is an easy fix to try

Come on Bart. I'm about the least handy guy when it comes to 1911's, but changing a Mainspring isn't that hard either.

Rich

LOL....true enough. I told Trace to ask what MS was in it (just built) and if it's anything other than a 19lb, to swap one of those in as well.

[uscbigdawg]

Agreed on the fix.

Too, remember...a lot of us have been running long firing pins since the 90's.

Rich

[GrumpyOne]

G-ManBart, on Aug 30 2009, 12:08 AM, said:

GrumpyOne, on Aug 29 2009, 11:43 PM, said:

I always thought (and was told by others), that a longer firing pin could also cause a discharge when you dropped the slide, since it doesn't have to travel as far to contact the primer. But if you guys say yes, it's ok, then I believe you.

I don't think I can recall ever hearing of that happen. With so many folks running extended firing pins I think we'd have heard about it a long time ago.

Actually, this gives me an idea for an experiment. Live primer in an empty case, no firing pin spring at all, or a very short one just to keep the pin centered and see if dropping the slide would be enough to cause a slam fire.

I'm interested in that experiment....I'm all up for debunking myths.

[HSMITH]

I run 17# mainsprings, rifle primers if seated always go bang with either an EE or Koenig hammer.

[G-ManBart]

HSMITH, on Aug 30 2009, 07:58 AM, said:

I run 17# mainsprings, rifle primers if seated always go bang with either an EE or Koenig hammer.

Not sure about the Wilson or Eagle Trace is referring to, but the Open gun has an STI hammer (the one with the angled slot on the side). Maybe it's a bit too heavy for a lighter spring to get going fast enough for SR primers???

[SV-COP]

These pics are of fired AAA 38 SC ammo from my new open gun. 95% of the rounds looked like this and it left lots of metal in and around the breechface and barrel hood. I'm sure hoping my new Dawson Hyper Drive firing pin will keep this from happening.

[XRe]

rangertrace, on Sep 3 2009, 11:55 AM, said:

These pics are of fired AAA 38 SC ammo from my new open gun. 95% of the rounds looked like this and it left lots of metal in and around the breechface and barrel hood. I'm sure hoping my new Dawson Hyper Drive firing pin will keep this from happening.

Long firing pin will likely correct that - that's exactly what I'd expect to see with that load and a standard length firing pin. Primer material is flowing into the FP hole and being sheared off when the case is extracted/ejected. The AAA stuff is loaded using 7625 (to M2's specs), IIRC, which - while not a dangerous load - is not exactly low pressure.

I use WSRs in my gun - Dawson Hyperdrive pin and 17# main spring. No issues if the primers are seated properly, including no flow, no shear, etc. I've used the M2i pin in the past, as well, with good results - the Dawson was just a smidge longer (and both are longer than the Limcat pin - at least the ones I've measured). My Trojan carries an M2i pin. Frankly, there's no place for a standard length pin in a competition gun.

And... I agree with Chris... never *ever* had a pierced primer in any of my Open guns running with a long firing pin, and I've never run anything but long pins in my Open guns (EGW in my Vipers, M2i and now Dawson in my Brazos gun).

[SV-COP]

Thanks for the reply Dave!!