[rtr]

10.5.4 says:

"Retrieving a dropped handgun. Dropped handguns must always be
retrieved by a Range Officer who will, after checking and/or clearing
the handgun, place it directly into the competitor’s gun case, gun bag
or holster. Dropping an unloaded handgun or causing it to fall outside
of a course of fire is not an infraction, however, a competitor who
retrieves a dropped handgun will receive a match disqualification."

At a match a shooter is resetting some steel downrange from most of the squad, including the RO. He is using a Limcat holster and somehow dislodges his gun and manages to catch it before it hits the ground. Another shooter who was setting steel with him says that the shooters gun became dislodged and he caught it before it hit the ground. Shooter is standing there with his strong hand taking almost a normal grip with the gun basically next to his holster in the same position it would roughly be in if in the holster (ie muzzle pointed down).

The RO is summoned. If you are the RO what do you do and why?

[boz1911]

10.5.1 Handling a firearm at any time except when in a designated safety area

or when under the supervision of, and in response to a direct command

issued by, a Range Officer.

DQ

He should have let it hit the gound and had an RO retrieve it, clear it, and holster it for him.

This post has been edited by boz1911: 28 August 2009 - 05:56 PM

[mscott]

DQ

[kevin c]

I hate that one's natural instinct to catch the gun (especially if it's not to prevent damage but with the half formed thought of trying to keep other's safe) is not considered the right thing to do, but I'm pretty sure the posters above have the right call.

[Chris Keen]

Yes, unfortunatly it's a DQ.

I hate to see a nice gun hit the dirt (or concrete), but it must be let go of, if you feel the gun come out of the holster.

[SLM]

Something falls, human nature is to catch it. Not to mention a multi-thousand dollar blaster hitting the ground isn't a pleasant thought. I'm sure I'd just reach out and catch it too. Ah heck, who doesn't like DQ Blizzards?

[GrumpyOne]

Hmmm, let's see.... $5,000 dollar gun hitting the dirt or concrete? Or forfeiture of a $25.00 match fee?.....I think I'll catch mine.

[whatmeworry]

Yumm! DQ Blizzards! Been there once because of a dropped gun. Freekin chair starts!
Adios,
Pat

[Viggen]

DQ

[Flatland Shooter]

I don't know if it was the right call or not, but my gun came loose during a walk through when I bumped into a barrier. Out of instinct, I caught the gun by the magwell and IMMEDIATELY placed it on the ground.

The RO was advised of my actions and in this case I was not DQ'd. As for catching the gun, it was totally instinct and I would have a hard time faulting someone in a similar situation from at least trying to catch their gun.

Bill

[BritinUSA]

I had a gun drop out of a holster on 3 occasions. One time I got my foot in the way and slowly lowered it to the ground... Not technically handling is it...?

[XD Niner]

I know this seems like a tough DQ but think about it from the safety aspect. Remember one of the Cardinal rules of shooting is that all guns should be treated as if they are loaded at all times. Would you try to catch a loaded gun if it fell or would you try to back away? Imagine reaching for a falling gun. There is a significant possibility that the shooter would allow one or more fingers to enter the trigger guard and contact the trigger. Yes, I understand that there was no ammunition in this particular firearm but it should still be treated as a loaded gun. While it is a tough rule and one that runs counter to our normal reactions I understand the logic behind it.

[ima45dv8]

XD Niner, on Aug 28 2009, 10:15 PM, said:

I know this seems like a tough DQ but think about it from the safety aspect. Remember one of the Cardinal rules of shooting is that all guns should be treated as if they are loaded at all times. Would you try to catch a loaded gun if it fell or would you try to back away? Imagine reaching for a falling gun. There is a significant possibility that the shooter would allow one or more fingers to enter the trigger guard and contact the trigger. Yes, I understand that there was no ammunition in this particular firearm but it should still be treated as a loaded gun. While it is a tough rule and one that runs counter to our normal reactions I understand the logic behind it.

Good post.

[kimel]

Y'all may want to check out the updated definition of dropped in the Sept 2008 addenda to the rules. Makes this situation much clearer.

[Jeff686]

If you bag it between stages this won't happen.

This post has been edited by Jeff686: 28 August 2009 - 09:04 PM

[Mistral404]

i was at Nationals sitting in the bleachers with a Ghost holster when i bang my gun. It fell. Called the RO. He picked it up and etc. Sure I was embarassed but followed the rules.

A lot of our safety rules in in conflict with some of our natural reflexes but the bottom line is that as intelligent beings we are suppose to learn those things that are contrary to our natural reflexes. I fully emphasize with the situation but we need to do what is right (according to our rule book ) vs what is natural.

When I was in the service they really push the idea of not doing what seemed natural but what is the smart call. The first example was a guy working with an electricity, the first instant is to grab the guy but that only kills two people rather than potentially one. It is like you do not try to grap a hot iron if it is dropping, you only get burn. When a guy tosses a knife at you, you do not grab it, you let it fall. All this is contrary to our natural instincts. Think of baseball, the idea is to catch stuff, whereas in the real world catching things can get you hurt.

DQ is the right call.

[rtr]

The September 2008 addendum says:

"Dropped Gun (during the Course of Fire) ---- A condition in which a competitor loses
control of their handgun. Loss of control does not require the handgun to land on the ground or
other range surface or prop. It occurs anytime the handgun is no longer in control of either hand,
even if it is trapped against part of the body or caught in mid-air."


It also says:

"Handling (as in “handling a firearm”) The act of manipulating,
firearm while the trigger is functionally accessible."

I think that is additive to my question.

FYI the shooter in my example was not DQed.

[BMartens]

Catch it, bag it and help paste the rest of the day.

[LPatterson]

If after catching his gun he had placed it on the ground, I would consider it the same as a dropped gun. But he was standing there holding the gun in a grip indicative of a shooting position, so I think he should have been DQed.

[Rolex]

I took the DQ. Finished shooting,holstered and went to put on
the lock and it went forward and down. Got it before it hit
my knee- DQ- Just have a hard time letting mt 3k plus open
gun hit the deck. BUT I did get a free DQ ice cream out of it

[G-ManBart]

Rolex, on Aug 29 2009, 01:21 PM, said:

I took the DQ. Finished shooting,holstered and went to put on
the lock and it went forward and down. Got it before it hit
my knee- DQ- Just have a hard time letting mt 3k plus open
gun hit the deck. BUT I did get a free DQ ice cream out of it

That's different than the scenario posed by the OP. R,

[STInky]

As far as the original senario....your gun falling from the holster while setting steel or reaching to pick up a pepper-popper while you are not actively involved in shooting the stage: I'm catching my gun !!!

I truely understand the "always loaded" golden rule and respect that...but I know it's not loaded, the RO that cleared me on the last stage that I shot knows it's not loaded...and I don't want my $2K limited gun hitting the ground !

Bring on the Ice Cream !!!

[Nik Habicht]

STInky, on Aug 29 2009, 04:49 PM, said:

I truely understand the "always loaded" golden rule and respect that...

,,,,but I know it's not loaded, the RO that cleared me on the last stage that I shot knows it's not loaded...and I don't want my $2K limited gun hitting the ground !

You know you're contradicting yourself here --- and putting everyone else on the range in danger, right? A better plan would be to bag the gun between stages, or get a better holster. Safety rules are designed to offer redundancies; breaking one gets you closer to having a potentially fatal accident. Is $2,000 really worth that level of risk?

[STInky]

Nik Habicht, on Aug 29 2009, 07:14 PM, said:

STInky, on Aug 29 2009, 04:49 PM, said:

I truely understand the "always loaded" golden rule and respect that...

,,,,but I know it's not loaded, the RO that cleared me on the last stage that I shot knows it's not loaded...and I don't want my $2K limited gun hitting the ground !

You know you're contradicting yourself here --- and putting everyone else on the range in danger, right? A better plan would be to bag the gun between stages, or get a better holster. Safety rules are designed to offer redundancies; breaking one gets you closer to having a potentially fatal accident. Is $2,000 really worth that level of risk?

No further comment, so I don't violate the guidelines.

[Cy Soto]

BritinUSA, on Aug 28 2009, 08:07 PM, said:

I had a gun drop out of a holster on 3 occasions. One time I got my foot in the way and slowly lowered it to the ground... Not technically handling is it...?

Gamer!! (J/K)

This post has been edited by Cy Soto: 29 August 2009 - 06:30 PM