Sign In
Register
Help
I know we have an existing thread concerning this match but things have changed and I think a new thread is in order.
The first change is that Dan Furbee is once again the match director. After a multi-year absence Dan is coming back to the Superstition Mountain Mystery 3-Gun. Dan was one of the founders of this match and having him back at the helm should be a great experience.
The second change is something that Dan has discussed with quite a few members of the match staff and that is stages. Scenario based stages that are designed to be 3-gun stages and not just USPSA stages with more distant targets are the goal here. I haven't seen any stage designs yet, I don't think any have been firmed up either, but anyone who shot the match back a few years ago should remember what cool stages Dan and crew provided. I am looking forward to it.
The third item that I know is on the agenda is a discussion of the rules. I know rules discussions always get people going but I don't think anything drastic is planned. There is some fine tuning that I know Dan wants and I am sure the other match staff will have input into the rules as well. The only area I know for certain that is being addressed is pistol selection for Heavy Metal. Look for that to be opened up quite a bit as far as type of pistols go and for a return to "real" Heavy Metal calibers.
Applications should be ready by mid November.
Dan hasn't spent much time on the forums so if you have questions for him or any of the staff you might want to use e-mail. The contact page for the match is at http://smm3gun.com/contacts.html.
-Larry
Superstition Mountain Mystery 3-Gun 2010 March25-28,2010 The Return of the Lost Dutchman
MultiQuote
#2
- aka: DIRTY CHAMBER
-
- Group: Classified
- Posts: 1,911
- Joined: 26-March 07
- Gender:Male
- Location:Salt Lake City UT
Posted 28 August 2009 - 05:51 PM
I have only shot the last three years, never a Dan match but have heard a lot of
good things. Looking forward to it !!
good things. Looking forward to it !!
#3
- Burned Out
-
- Group: Classified
- Posts: 2,494
- Joined: 04-February 04
- Gender:Male
- Location:san antonio tx
Posted 28 August 2009 - 06:06 PM
Sweet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!! I think???????????? 
welcome back Dan!!
trapr
welcome back Dan!!
trapr
Support Global Warming.............Spray Paint Rifle Targets
I've seen the photographs!!!!!!!!!!!....................Those were drawings!!!!!!!!!!!!...............Whatever! !!!!!!!!!!!
There are reasons and excuses, excuses we make up and tell ourselves and others in an attempt to make us feel better or look better. Reasons are the truth, if we are strong, we learn from them. If we are weak, we make up more excuses.
Scout Swonson, 2-20-98 / 3-18-10...........................simply the best!!!!
I've seen the photographs!!!!!!!!!!!....................Those were drawings!!!!!!!!!!!!...............Whatever! !!!!!!!!!!!
There are reasons and excuses, excuses we make up and tell ourselves and others in an attempt to make us feel better or look better. Reasons are the truth, if we are strong, we learn from them. If we are weak, we make up more excuses.
Scout Swonson, 2-20-98 / 3-18-10...........................simply the best!!!!
#4
- Blazing Saddles
-
- Group: Banned
- Posts: 5,864
- Joined: 11-October 02
- Location:Fairfield, California
Posted 29 August 2009 - 07:40 AM
jhgtyre, on Aug 28 2009, 05:01 PM, said:
The first change is that Dan Furbee is once again the match director.
That's all I needed to hear. Put me down as in.
Rich
Richard (Rich) A. White
A-36640
Pressure is what you feel when you don't know what you're doing. - Chuck Knoll
On the quest to be non-antagonistic and non-confrontational.
A-36640
Pressure is what you feel when you don't know what you're doing. - Chuck Knoll
On the quest to be non-antagonistic and non-confrontational.
#5
- Sees Sights Lift
-
- Group: Classified
- Posts: 431
- Joined: 03-September 03
- Gender:Female
- Location:Albuquerque, NM
Posted 29 August 2009 - 05:34 PM
I have missed you, Dan Furball 
Cheryl
Cheryl
"I believe you should live each day as if it is your last, which is why I don't have any clean laundry, because, Come on, who wants to wash clothes on the last day of their life?" :)
#7
- Knock...Knock...
-
- Group: Moderators
- Posts: 1,999
- Joined: 02-May 01
- Gender:Male
- Location:Arizona
Posted 15 September 2009 - 02:48 PM
Constructive Comment #1
Forgive me but I do not understand the rationale of Rule 7.2.5 in a 3 gun event. If I can have shotshell caddies, rifle magazines, etc. etc. in front of the point of my hip, why not the pistol and pistol mags?? The idea of concealment seems to fall down in an event where the shooter may have to have rifle, shotgun, and pistol ammo as well as a pistol on their person all at the same time. Don't mind the AR mags on a thigh rig or the shotshell armband but OMG a pistol mag is forward of the hip!!!!
Given the amount of stuff that 3 gunners have to carry on their bodies, let us put the stuff where it works best for each of us individually.
Constructive Comment #2
If we are going to have power factors for Heavy Metal (not a bad thing), then break out the chrono.
Constructive Comment #3
Good call on the Heavy Metal Pistol selection.
Constructive Comment #4
Can't do Horner scoring?????
Forgive me but I do not understand the rationale of Rule 7.2.5 in a 3 gun event. If I can have shotshell caddies, rifle magazines, etc. etc. in front of the point of my hip, why not the pistol and pistol mags?? The idea of concealment seems to fall down in an event where the shooter may have to have rifle, shotgun, and pistol ammo as well as a pistol on their person all at the same time. Don't mind the AR mags on a thigh rig or the shotshell armband but OMG a pistol mag is forward of the hip!!!!
Given the amount of stuff that 3 gunners have to carry on their bodies, let us put the stuff where it works best for each of us individually.
Constructive Comment #2
If we are going to have power factors for Heavy Metal (not a bad thing), then break out the chrono.
Constructive Comment #3
Good call on the Heavy Metal Pistol selection.
Constructive Comment #4
Can't do Horner scoring?????
In short, Iraq is not an imperialistic venture, but a messy, underappreciated attempt to make the United States more secure by removing dictators from their petrodollar-fueled arsenals and leaving constitutional goverments in their wake while promoting social justice for the previously marginalized.
- Victor Hanson
Victory at all costs, victory in spite of terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory there is no survival
- Winston Churchill
- Victor Hanson
Victory at all costs, victory in spite of terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory there is no survival
- Winston Churchill
#10
- Burned Out
-
- Group: Classified
- Posts: 2,494
- Joined: 04-February 04
- Gender:Male
- Location:san antonio tx
Posted 15 September 2009 - 08:50 PM
I don't understand why pumps and auto SG's are allowed in HM optic class, just make it HMI / pump, and HMO / auto, otherwise you open up a can of worms on who actually won the class, unless you do not intend on separating the SG scores out, if that s the case then why would anyone want to shoot a pump in that division????????
I also agree with the PF requirement, if its going to be a rule then it needs to be checked, and not randomly!!!
As for the pistol equipment, behind the hip???????????????????????????? WHY!!!!!
Trapr
I also agree with the PF requirement, if its going to be a rule then it needs to be checked, and not randomly!!!
As for the pistol equipment, behind the hip???????????????????????????? WHY!!!!!
Trapr
Support Global Warming.............Spray Paint Rifle Targets
I've seen the photographs!!!!!!!!!!!....................Those were drawings!!!!!!!!!!!!...............Whatever! !!!!!!!!!!!
There are reasons and excuses, excuses we make up and tell ourselves and others in an attempt to make us feel better or look better. Reasons are the truth, if we are strong, we learn from them. If we are weak, we make up more excuses.
Scout Swonson, 2-20-98 / 3-18-10...........................simply the best!!!!
I've seen the photographs!!!!!!!!!!!....................Those were drawings!!!!!!!!!!!!...............Whatever! !!!!!!!!!!!
There are reasons and excuses, excuses we make up and tell ourselves and others in an attempt to make us feel better or look better. Reasons are the truth, if we are strong, we learn from them. If we are weak, we make up more excuses.
Scout Swonson, 2-20-98 / 3-18-10...........................simply the best!!!!
#11
- Looks for Target
-
- Group: Classified
- Posts: 174
- Joined: 23-January 04
- Gender:Male
- Location:Lafayette, Indiana
Posted 16 September 2009 - 10:03 AM
bigbrowndog, on Sep 15 2009, 08:50 PM, said:
I don't understand why pumps and auto SG's are allowed in HM optic class, just make it HMI / pump, and HMO / auto, otherwise you open up a can of worms on who actually won the class, unless you do not intend on separating the SG scores out, if that s the case then why would anyone want to shoot a pump in that division????????
Answered your own question.
As for the pistol equipment, behind the hip???????????????????????????? WHY!!!!!
Agreed WHY, it's not IDPA.
Trapr
Answered your own question.
As for the pistol equipment, behind the hip???????????????????????????? WHY!!!!!
Agreed WHY, it's not IDPA.
Trapr
#12
- Sees Sights Lift
-
- Group: Classified
- Posts: 371
- Joined: 26-April 07
- Gender:Male
- Location:Shelton Washington
Posted 17 September 2009 - 08:54 AM
Amen Kellyn...except for the horner scoreing...I like both so keep this one as it is.
I don't have a dog in the fight for the HM rules so I will leave them alone.
No matter what I want to shoot the match, just tell me when the entries start so I can put my .02, excuse me, my $250 in the pot!
RLTW,
Scott
I don't have a dog in the fight for the HM rules so I will leave them alone.
No matter what I want to shoot the match, just tell me when the entries start so I can put my .02, excuse me, my $250 in the pot!
RLTW,
Scott
Scott Hawkins
AKA Busyhawk
Don't pick a fight with an old man, he is too old to fight,
he'll just kill you.
If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
AKA Busyhawk
Don't pick a fight with an old man, he is too old to fight,
he'll just kill you.
If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
#13
- Sees Sights
-
- Group: Classified
- Posts: 279
- Joined: 02-June 03
- Gender:Male
- Location:Chandler, Arizona
Posted 17 September 2009 - 11:30 AM
No drum mags in tac rifle. I know a couple of guys who bought them after the roller coaster stage who won't be happy they can't use them after all without going into open. At least they bought them after the ban expired. It would be cool to see that prop again.
#14
- Knock...Knock...
-
- Group: Moderators
- Posts: 1,999
- Joined: 02-May 01
- Gender:Male
- Location:Arizona
Posted 17 September 2009 - 04:29 PM
bigbrowndog, on Sep 15 2009, 08:50 PM, said:
I don't understand why pumps and auto SG's are allowed in HM optic class, just make it HMI / pump, and HMO / auto, otherwise you open up a can of worms on who actually won the class, unless you do not intend on separating the SG scores out, if that s the case then why would anyone want to shoot a pump in that division????????
Trapr
Trapr
+1 on this. Wow, I agree with Trapr!
In short, Iraq is not an imperialistic venture, but a messy, underappreciated attempt to make the United States more secure by removing dictators from their petrodollar-fueled arsenals and leaving constitutional goverments in their wake while promoting social justice for the previously marginalized.
- Victor Hanson
Victory at all costs, victory in spite of terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory there is no survival
- Winston Churchill
- Victor Hanson
Victory at all costs, victory in spite of terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory there is no survival
- Winston Churchill
#15
- Burned Out
-
- Group: Classified
- Posts: 2,494
- Joined: 04-February 04
- Gender:Male
- Location:san antonio tx
Posted 17 September 2009 - 04:33 PM
Oh, stop it!!!! 
trapr
trapr
Support Global Warming.............Spray Paint Rifle Targets
I've seen the photographs!!!!!!!!!!!....................Those were drawings!!!!!!!!!!!!...............Whatever! !!!!!!!!!!!
There are reasons and excuses, excuses we make up and tell ourselves and others in an attempt to make us feel better or look better. Reasons are the truth, if we are strong, we learn from them. If we are weak, we make up more excuses.
Scout Swonson, 2-20-98 / 3-18-10...........................simply the best!!!!
I've seen the photographs!!!!!!!!!!!....................Those were drawings!!!!!!!!!!!!...............Whatever! !!!!!!!!!!!
There are reasons and excuses, excuses we make up and tell ourselves and others in an attempt to make us feel better or look better. Reasons are the truth, if we are strong, we learn from them. If we are weak, we make up more excuses.
Scout Swonson, 2-20-98 / 3-18-10...........................simply the best!!!!
#18
- 100% Light Mod
-
- Group: Classified
- Posts: 3,387
- Joined: 04-September 03
- Gender:Male
- Location:Antioch Califiornia
Posted 26 September 2009 - 03:52 PM
Nice!
It probably really doesn't matter that much, I don't think pistol reloading at SMM3G is that frequent. I don't think we've had to reload the last 2 years, but I could be off. Worse thing, someone would get bumped to open for something with no benefit.
It probably really doesn't matter that much, I don't think pistol reloading at SMM3G is that frequent. I don't think we've had to reload the last 2 years, but I could be off. Worse thing, someone would get bumped to open for something with no benefit.
Dave - TY49171
Turangi!
Turangi!
#20
- Calls Shots
-
- Group: Classified
- Posts: 960
- Joined: 23-June 05
- Location:Edmond, OK
Posted 27 September 2009 - 10:48 AM
Hell I don't care if you gotta put the thing in your back pocket, I am shooting this match anyway. After spending a week in Raton with the guys from the bowling team, I can't see how I would miss this one. Not to mention LPH threatened me!
See you all in the spring.
Mike
See you all in the spring.
Mike
#21
- Burned Out
-
- Group: Classified
- Posts: 2,494
- Joined: 04-February 04
- Gender:Male
- Location:san antonio tx
Posted 28 September 2009 - 05:16 PM
Berkim, the normal guys probably do not have to reload but the nuts that shoot HM do, so having the rule removed is a nice thing. I look forward to more info.
trapr
trapr
Support Global Warming.............Spray Paint Rifle Targets
I've seen the photographs!!!!!!!!!!!....................Those were drawings!!!!!!!!!!!!...............Whatever! !!!!!!!!!!!
There are reasons and excuses, excuses we make up and tell ourselves and others in an attempt to make us feel better or look better. Reasons are the truth, if we are strong, we learn from them. If we are weak, we make up more excuses.
Scout Swonson, 2-20-98 / 3-18-10...........................simply the best!!!!
I've seen the photographs!!!!!!!!!!!....................Those were drawings!!!!!!!!!!!!...............Whatever! !!!!!!!!!!!
There are reasons and excuses, excuses we make up and tell ourselves and others in an attempt to make us feel better or look better. Reasons are the truth, if we are strong, we learn from them. If we are weak, we make up more excuses.
Scout Swonson, 2-20-98 / 3-18-10...........................simply the best!!!!
#22
- Calls Shots
-
- Group: Forum Dealer
- Posts: 805
- Joined: 28-August 03
- Gender:Male
- Location:Darwin, Minnesota
Posted 29 September 2009 - 05:58 AM
Seems to me that IMGA are the rules that pretty much everyone follows. Some RM's massage them a little but over all, they pretty much come right out of the IMGA rules. I personally think they are pretty darn complete!! And FYI....good job too!!
Well, ya know you have to say all that good stuff before you criticize any part of them....right?
One thing people may want to consider, as I was once a huge gamer in the HE-MAN (Heavy Metal) Divisions.....and it's about power factors. If you don't use a chrony, why have the rule? Or....the chrony can be added resources, slow down a match, etc. One thing you may want to consider is just to weigh bullets. Call out for 230 grain min for pistol and 147grain for rifle. Some may say that you can down load them to be sub-major.....how ever, in the case of pistol....with 230grain the pistols seem very sluggish when down loaded to sub-major, hardley worth the effort. With rifle....you get 147 grain bullets going less than 2500fps and you have nothing but a rainbow trajectory out at distances over 200yds. And really, to get the felt recoil down on 147grain you need to try and get under 2000fps and then your rifle is going to be iffy on function between your 'short' range loads and 'long' range loads. Pretty easy to pick up a guys magazine in a COF, strip a round off, pull the bullet and weigh it. Also, it can allow for a spot inspection as well, not everyone has to be checked....just knowing that some are will keep everyone honest. As to my gaming.....I was using 110gr for the 308 and 155grain for the 45acp at about a 140 powerfactor, it was a powder puff and still snappy.
Just my $.02 on the rules......as for Dan getting back into this? GREATNEWS!!! I think we may rethink this match for 2010.
Tim
Well, ya know you have to say all that good stuff before you criticize any part of them....right?
One thing people may want to consider, as I was once a huge gamer in the HE-MAN (Heavy Metal) Divisions.....and it's about power factors. If you don't use a chrony, why have the rule? Or....the chrony can be added resources, slow down a match, etc. One thing you may want to consider is just to weigh bullets. Call out for 230 grain min for pistol and 147grain for rifle. Some may say that you can down load them to be sub-major.....how ever, in the case of pistol....with 230grain the pistols seem very sluggish when down loaded to sub-major, hardley worth the effort. With rifle....you get 147 grain bullets going less than 2500fps and you have nothing but a rainbow trajectory out at distances over 200yds. And really, to get the felt recoil down on 147grain you need to try and get under 2000fps and then your rifle is going to be iffy on function between your 'short' range loads and 'long' range loads. Pretty easy to pick up a guys magazine in a COF, strip a round off, pull the bullet and weigh it. Also, it can allow for a spot inspection as well, not everyone has to be checked....just knowing that some are will keep everyone honest. As to my gaming.....I was using 110gr for the 308 and 155grain for the 45acp at about a 140 powerfactor, it was a powder puff and still snappy.
Just my $.02 on the rules......as for Dan getting back into this? GREATNEWS!!! I think we may rethink this match for 2010.
Tim
Nordic Components, Inc. -- Website
Nordic Components, Inc. -- Dealer Forum
As a matter of fact, I am not a Grand Master......But I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night!!
Nordic Components, Inc. -- Dealer Forum
As a matter of fact, I am not a Grand Master......But I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night!!
#23
- Sees Sights
-
- Group: Classified
- Posts: 279
- Joined: 23-August 05
- Gender:Male
- Location:Denver, Colorado
Posted 21 October 2009 - 04:31 PM
Am I understanding this rule correctly that I MUST use reduced recoil slugs?
9.1.3.b. Slugs - "Reduced Recoil” power rating and a maximum of 1 ounce.
I am sure hoping this is a typo.
9.1.3.b. Slugs - "Reduced Recoil” power rating and a maximum of 1 ounce.
I am sure hoping this is a typo.
#24
- Righteous Dude
-
- Group: Moderators
- Posts: 3,648
- Joined: 15-January 02
- Gender:Male
- Location:Mesa, Arizona
Posted 21 October 2009 - 05:26 PM
MarkCO, on Oct 21 2009, 04:31 PM, said:
Am I understanding this rule correctly that I MUST use reduced recoil slugs?
9.1.3.b. Slugs - "Reduced Recoil" power rating and a maximum of 1 ounce.
I am sure hoping this is a typo.
9.1.3.b. Slugs - "Reduced Recoil" power rating and a maximum of 1 ounce.
I am sure hoping this is a typo.
The rule you are quoting is under "12 gauge calibration ammunition." They are to use reduced recoil slugs for calibration. You are not so restricted.
-ld
Maku Mozo
There are FOUR lights!
There are FOUR lights!
#25
- Sees Sights
-
- Group: Classified
- Posts: 279
- Joined: 23-August 05
- Gender:Male
- Location:Denver, Colorado
Posted 21 October 2009 - 05:41 PM
jhgtyre, on Oct 21 2009, 06:26 PM, said:
MarkCO, on Oct 21 2009, 04:31 PM, said:
Am I understanding this rule correctly that I MUST use reduced recoil slugs?
9.1.3.b. Slugs - "Reduced Recoil" power rating and a maximum of 1 ounce.
I am sure hoping this is a typo.
9.1.3.b. Slugs - "Reduced Recoil" power rating and a maximum of 1 ounce.
I am sure hoping this is a typo.
The rule you are quoting is under "12 gauge calibration ammunition." They are to use reduced recoil slugs for calibration. You are not so restricted.
-ld
Thanks much! Makes sense.