[springy]

At the FNH match this year, they gave the High Lady awards a little different than usual. Usually there are not enough ladies in each division to give awards, so no awards are given. At the FNH they took each ladies percentage within their division and put all the ladies together, and gave awards to 1st, 2nd and 3rd High Lady. For example, if a lady shoots 78% against Daniel Horner in TO, and another lady shoots 78% against Robby Johnson in TI, then those 2 ladies are pretty much even. I know this is not 100% mathematically correct, but I feel it is a lot more correct than having 5 ladies shoot the match and none receive an award. For having the gump to prepare for a 3gun championship match, they deserve some recognition.

michael

[HRider]

I like that idea. I think Cheryl should get a trophy for "Best Match Brownies" to go along with those inevitable "High Lady" awards
Hurley

[Joe4d]

I honestly dont see shooting sports as really favoring one sex over another, I honestly see know reason why women and men cant compete straight up.

[Benelli Chick]

Whatever the reason, especially in 3-Gun, the high ladies are more like 50% or so, especially against Daniel. (This excludes Kay for sure and maybe Tasha who do score a bit higher compared to the men.)

I think you should recognize ALL the special categories.

At JP RM3G, if there weren't enough in a category, we gave a certificate to at least recognize your accomplishment. I mean, we ask you to fill out senior etc on the apps, and then we don't even recognize you?? That seems like maybe we shouldn't ask!

Yes, trophies or plaques are expensive, but if you can't manage that for all the categories, a certificate at least says something!

Also, I believe we want more lady shooters and more junior shooters, and for those categories, I think you need to give awards period. Again, at JP RM3G, we sent the top lady in Open and in Tactical to the table at the end of the special top 25% shooters pins that John gives out. They are obviously in the top 25% of ladies. We also give some special awards for juniors. If ladies and juniors feel they have a chance to win something or at least be recognized, they are more likely to come. (Maybe!) I'll tell you the truth, being a lady shooter and shooting with all guys, kind of makes you feel...less than adequate sometimes. At least when I'm shooting with some women, we can compete with each other, and even when we're ignored at the awards, we know! I honestly think that's why sometimes ladies and juniors don't come out and compete: because they won't be up there when they first start, and it takes a lot to keep going with no recognition at all.

I know it seems a little sexist as 90 plus% of the shooters are men. But, if we don't want that to always be true, we need to recognize those in the minority. We recognize the...shall we say...long time shooters and really long time shooters!

I liked what FNH tried to do. It's tough to compare those people shooting against Daniel to those shooting against others. He's kind of a freak! (Daniel, you know I mean that in the nicest possible way!) But, it was nice to see ladies recognized.

At Nationals, last year, they weren't even going to say the top lady's names!!! Come on! Fine, maybe no trophy, but a mention would seem appropriate even if there weren't 6 or whatever of them in any division!

In the past, SMM3G has given a special ladies prize of some jewelry. Many people try to come up with something special!

I think we need to recognize top lady, top junior etc. ALL the special categories, military etc. EVEN if it just means a mention. Why ask categories if you don't recognize them???

My $1.02!!!!!

This post has been edited by Benelli Chick: 25 August 2009 - 07:06 PM

[RWF]

+1 high lady needs be recogize. the awards cost i am sure is small and the meaning to the ladys would be great!

This post has been edited by RWF: 25 August 2009 - 11:04 AM

[bbbean]

More awards, more better.

[RufDog]

I agree with encouraging women to participate in the shooting sports. It seems to me many women are intimidated and to see other women shooting eases their apprehension. Extra recognition or "favor" could seem sexist but look at the intention, to get more shooters esp women. I say do whatever achieves that goal. As for juniors.... I think most matches require them to be 16 if not 21. I see junior participation VERY deterred. A kid will have interest at an earlier age but if they cant get involved untill 16-21 they will have long since lost interest & that is a tragedy.

[GAPEACH]

As a match director and a competitor, I see both sides and I think that lady participants should at least be recognized. Not sure how/what we will do at the Area 6 Multi-Gun this year, but last year we had shooters from the Match Sponsor, Nordic Components, give the ladies in the match their place in line for the prize table. That was very unexpected and very much appreciated!

And Cheryl does get the high lady award for the best brownies!

[cheryl]

GAPEACH, on Aug 26 2009, 11:19 AM, said:

As a match director and a competitor, I see both sides and I think that lady participants should at least be recognized. Not sure how/what we will do at the Area 6 Multi-Gun this year, but last year we had shooters from the Match Sponsor, Nordic Components, give the ladies in the match their place in line for the prize table. That was very unexpected and very much appreciated!

And Cheryl does get the high lady award for the best brownies!

Nordic Components ROCK! As always, Michael & I are looking forward to shooting the A6 Multigun match again this year. The Tallahassee gang will see you in October.

[Tom Freeman]

Without a doubt High Lady should be recognized. Just like High Junior, Senior, LE and Mil.

This post has been edited by Tom Freeman: 27 August 2009 - 03:10 PM

[1chota]

Benelli Chick, on Aug 24 2009, 08:55 PM, said:

Whatever the reason, especially in 3-Gun, the high ladies are more like 50% or so, especially against Daniel. (This excludes Kay for sure and maybe Tasha who do score a bit higher compared to the men.)

I think you should recognize ALL the special categories.

At JP RM3G, if there weren't enough in a category, we gave a certificate to at least recognize your accomplishment. I mean, we ask you to fill out senior etc on the apps, and then we don't even recognize you?? That seems like maybe we shouldn't ask!

Yes, trophies or plaques are expensive, but if you can't manage that for all the categories, a certificate at least says something!

Also, I believe we want more lady shooters and more junior shooters, and for those categories, I think you need to give awards period. Again, at JP RM3G, we sent the top lady in Open and in Tactical to the table at the end of the special top 25% shooters pins that John gives out. They are obviously in the top 25% of ladies. We also give some special awards for juniors. If ladies and juniors feel they have a chance to win something or at least be recognized, they are more likely to come. (Maybe!) I'll tell you the truth, being a lady shooter and shooting with all guys, kind of makes you feel...less than adequate sometimes. At least when I'm shooting with some women, we can compete with each other, and even when we're ignored at the awards, we know! I honestly think that's why sometimes ladies and juniors don't come out and compete: because they won't be up there when they first start, and it takes a lot to keep going with no recognition at all.

I know it seems a little sexist as 90 plus% of the shooters are men. But, if we don't want that to always be true, we need to recognize those in the minority. We recognize the...shall we say...long time shooters and really long time shooters!

I liked what FNH tried to do. It's tough to compare those people shooting against Daniel to those shooting against others. He's kind of a freak! (Daniel, you know I mean that in the nicest possible way!) But, it was nice to see ladies recognized.

At Nationals, last year, they weren't even going to say the top lady's names!!! Come on! Fine, maybe no trophy, but a mention would seem appropriate even if there weren't 6 or whatever of them in any division!

In the past, SMM3G has given a special ladies prize of some jewelry. Many people try to come up with something special!

I think we need to recognize top lady, top junior etc. ALL the special categories, military etc. EVEN if it just means a mention. Why ask categories if you don't recognize them???

My $1.02!!!!!

[1chota]

Benelli Chick, on Aug 24 2009, 08:55 PM, said:

Whatever the reason, especially in 3-Gun, the high ladies are more like 50% or so, especially against Daniel. (This excludes Kay for sure and maybe Tasha who do score a bit higher compared to the men.)

I think you should recognize ALL the special categories.

At JP RM3G, if there weren't enough in a category, we gave a certificate to at least recognize your accomplishment. I mean, we ask you to fill out senior etc on the apps, and then we don't even recognize you?? That seems like maybe we shouldn't ask!

Yes, trophies or plaques are expensive, but if you can't manage that for all the categories, a certificate at least says something!

Also, I believe we want more lady shooters and more junior shooters, and for those categories, I think you need to give awards period. Again, at JP RM3G, we sent the top lady in Open and in Tactical to the table at the end of the special top 25% shooters pins that John gives out. They are obviously in the top 25% of ladies. We also give some special awards for juniors. If ladies and juniors feel they have a chance to win something or at least be recognized, they are more likely to come. (Maybe!) I'll tell you the truth, being a lady shooter and shooting with all guys, kind of makes you feel...less than adequate sometimes. At least when I'm shooting with some women, we can compete with each other, and even when we're ignored at the awards, we know! I honestly think that's why sometimes ladies and juniors don't come out and compete: because they won't be up there when they first start, and it takes a lot to keep going with no recognition at all.

I know it seems a little sexist as 90 plus% of the shooters are men. But, if we don't want that to always be true, we need to recognize those in the minority. We recognize the...shall we say...long time shooters and really long time shooters!

I liked what FNH tried to do. It's tough to compare those people shooting against Daniel to those shooting against others. He's kind of a freak! (Daniel, you know I mean that in the nicest possible way!) But, it was nice to see ladies recognized.

At Nationals, last year, they weren't even going to say the top lady's names!!! Come on! Fine, maybe no trophy, but a mention would seem appropriate even if there weren't 6 or whatever of them in any division!

In the past, SMM3G has given a special ladies prize of some jewelry. Many people try to come up with something special!

I think we need to recognize top lady, top junior etc. ALL the special categories, military etc. EVEN if it just means a mention. Why ask categories if you don't recognize them???

My $1.02!!!!!

I agree whole heartedly. Why ask for status if it ain't important. I am a super senior, (really ole dog!), and shooting against the youngsters is hard enough. Kinda nice to compare us with other ole dogs. Honor those who shoot well in their categories, it means something to them if not to those who feel differently.
1chota

This post has been edited by 1chota: 27 August 2009 - 04:14 PM

[LadyinBlue]

Benelli Chick, on Aug 24 2009, 08:55 PM, said:

Also, I believe we want more lady shooters and more junior shooters, and for those categories, I think you need to give awards period.

If ladies and juniors feel they have a chance to win something or at least be recognized, they are more likely to come. (Maybe!) I'll tell you the truth, being a lady shooter and shooting with all guys, kind of makes you feel...less than adequate sometimes. At least when I'm shooting with some women, we can compete with each other, and even when we're ignored at the awards, we know! I honestly think that's why sometimes ladies and juniors don't come out and compete: because they won't be up there when they first start, and it takes a lot to keep going with no recognition at all.

I know it seems a little sexist as 90 plus% of the shooters are men. But, if we don't want that to always be true, we need to recognize those in the minority. We recognize the...shall we say...long time shooters and really long time shooters!

My $1.02!!!!!

I'll see your $1.02 and raise you my 2 cents worth...lol
Denise...you do a great service to women shooters at the matches that you and JJ run. And you are correct that if women are recognized they are more likely to come back and compete again as they feel validated in their own division. I would also add that when husbands and wives shoot together, the husbands have a greater chance of acquiring the "free time" to attend a match. (mesage to the 90% of shooters who are men...invite your wives) Now, granted, he will end up spending twice as much money in double the gear, double the ammo, double the entry fee...but, hopefully, they will share transportation and lodging. An added feature, this great expense can create harmony in the relationship...unless of course the wife shoots better than the husband.
The same is true for juniors and expenses. If mom and/or dad are paying for their kids to shoot then the expenses increase exponentially.
My point is that as we are working to increase the juniors program for the future of shooting, don't forget the lady shooters need some recognition and support to increase their numbers as well.

[Modoc]

I have to agree with Lady in Blue and Benelli Chick -

I have been running a Cowboy Action Match as a main part of the Comittee for the past 6 years, and giving recognition to the Ladies and Jrs is deffenitely a big plus to keep them coming back.

[whiskey1]

High lady, junior and senior should always be recognized since those are undeniably physical attributes that make those groups different (not better or worse- just different) from the core of the sport. I am okay with scrapping high LE, Military, Postal Worker, Union Member, Clergyman, etc., since those categories are completely irrelevant from a physical perspective. A shooters full time occupation (or part time- reseve LE, national guard, etc.) may be something to be proud of but how are cops any more "Special" than Ambulance drivers, factory workers, or investment bankers? Okay I included bankers just to be provocative...

[bbbean]

whiskey1, on Nov 10 2009, 08:53 AM, said:

High lady, junior and senior should always be recognized since those are undeniably physical attributes that make those groups different (not better or worse- just different) from the core of the sport. I am okay with scrapping high LE, Military, Postal Worker, Union Member, Clergyman, etc., since those categories are completely irrelevant from a physical perspective. A shooters full time occupation (or part time- reseve LE, national guard, etc.) may be something to be proud of but how are cops any more "Special" than Ambulance drivers, factory workers, or investment bankers? Okay I included bankers just to be provocative...

I wouldn't think special recognition for high LEO or Military isn't due to their "special" status, but rather that those are groups we'd like to specifically encourage to compete.

[whiskey1]

You'll get more cops to compete if you promise to hide their identity. Then they won't have to listen to all of the well meaning comments like- I sure am glad you came to shoot. Most cops...blah, blah, blah.....couldn't hit a barn. I got stopped on the way to the range, etc...Why don't cops like to shoot? blah, blah, blah....this one time...blah, blah....did not know about safe area...blah,...what should I do about my alcoholic brother in law....blah, blah...did you see on the news where the cop...You seem to shoot pretty good for a cop...on and on ad nauseum.

Apologies tendered.

Soldiers may be different. BTW, I would think ambulance drivers would be a group we want to encourage to come to the range. Much more useful than a cop at a match. I have never seen anybody break a law at a match (not a very important law at least) but I have seen bunches of people twist knees or ankles, cut themselves on props, etc...One got bit by a pygmy rattlesnake in FL a few years ago.

[LPatterson]

Joe4d, on Aug 24 2009, 07:07 PM, said:

I honestly dont see shooting sports as really favoring one sex over another, I honestly see know reason why women and men cant compete straight up.

This is without a doubt the worst comment that I have ever seen you make. To say what I would like to say violates the rules of this forum.

[ERIC]

If there isn't enough in each category, it makes sense to group them together. Although if they are kept separate, it gives my wife an incentive to come out and shot HM Iron/Pump if she's the only competitor and guaranteed first place (this is actually my hopes and dreams and not hers).

Ladies, juniors and seniors should be recognized. I’m not so sure about LE and Military.

Regarding getting LE out to shoot, I've had a couple for neighbors. They were great guys and always had interesting stories. I've invited them to come out and shoot with me numberous times but it never seemed to interest them. I never understood that.

[GentlemanJim]

I want the Ladies that shoot to get all the recognition they can.

Frankly I am kinda sick of all the sports that exclude women, either by design or the brutality of the sport.

Our sport is more about mental acuity and skill than pure brawn.
As it stands, The top Lady shooters are kicking the behinds of more than half of the men who shoot...(including me)
As the numbers of Lady shooters increases...so will the top level they will attain.
At some point we WILL have a Lady GM.

In one way women are shooting heads up against men as it is...within their respective classes ie, D,C,B,A ect


Here is the thing....Women are different than men...more so than any other defined group...as in LE or MIL.

It also should be noted that it takes something special in a woman to jump into this man dominated sport...ie GUTS

In short... the Ladies should get all the recognition we can give them
Jim

[Dan Sierpina]

Jim,
When you're right, you're really right!

[whiskey1]

Amen, Jim. Well said.

[John Heiter]

As a match director, I personally have mixed feelings on the special recognition categories. It's almost like saying "Here's a trophy, you did really well for a..." and I just don't like that qualifier aspect of it. That said, I've come to realize over the years that not everyone shares that view and that the special recognition plaques mean something and are very important to some people. I don't want to disappoint anyone so I try to make sure we order the 30 or so special recognition plaques necessary for our section championship each year.

I really want more women and juniors to come out and shoot for a couple reasons. 1. I think they're a huge untapped market of shooters that will help to grow the sport and 2. As a group I find that women and juniors are typically more fun to shoot with than a bunch of old farts. Anyway, I've started trying to do more to encourage on the front-end of the match rather than at the end by offering discounted entry fees to both juniors and ladies. I want guys not to get away for a weekend of shooting but to bring their family for the weekend.

John

[Wakal]

Quote

At some point we WILL have a Lady GM

As long as we continue to reward mediocrity, I think not...

Match winner wins, everyone else stacks up behind them regardless of chromosome pattern, occupation, or other trivialities. Rewarding poor performance generates more poor performance, and we as Americans should be above such things. Judge not by the color of skin, chosen profession, age, or reproductive organ configuration...performance matters

[ERIC]

GentlemanJim, on Nov 10 2009, 10:42 AM, said:

Our sport is more about mental acuity and skill than pure brawn.

Try to tell that to my 90 pound wife as she shoots my shotgun.