[SpeedNeeder]

I recently shot my second IPSC match. In my first match, I was very controlled, SLOW, and most importantly safe. I had a 100% clear sight picture on EVERY shot, focusing first on the target, then on the front sight before shooting. In my second match, I honestly don't think I focused on my front sight except for some of the longer shots. This is obviously something I need to work on, since I couldn't 'call' a single shot I made that day.

I will refocus on front sight focus, lol.

Anyway, my question is:
What do you actually look at and focus on between first and second shots on the same target?

I can see the brass fly, but I completely lose the sight when the muzzle comes up.

[wide45]

What did you see when you fired the first shot? Do that again.

[TWHaz]

Go out and shoot into a berm. Just watch the front sight rise and return.

that is what you need to see on most shots.

The time and money saver if you are going to shoot this sport is ????????????????????????????


Read "Practical Shooting, beyond the fundamentals "


http://www.brianenos...tore/books.html

[fourtrax]

Reacquire the sight, and repeat. It can be especially daunting for the new guy to watch a squad of seasoned shooters shoot a stage. While maybe not all are seeing the sights, rest assured that most are. Firing into the berm and watching the sights is an exceptional drill. Buy the book mentioned and hang on. You'll get there with a little practice.

[bikerburgess]

I had a similar experience in my first matches, sights what sights, now it depends the target whatever sight picture I needed for the first shot I get (or try to get) I get for the second shot exept for closer shots that I trust my index and timing for.

Practice as much as you can and pay atention to what the sights do.

[benos]

SpeedNeeder, on Aug 23 2009, 05:42 PM, said:

Anyway, my question is:
What do you actually look at and focus on between first and second shots on the same target?

Look right at the front sight. It should look like a building, silhouetted against the sky. If you don't blink, you'll see it rise out of the rear notch, then it'll disappear for a split second and then reappear as it's coming back down into the notch.

Note time that it's "disappeared" is so short that it usually will look as if it never did.
be

[SpeedNeeder]

Thank you for the info.
I can always see the front sight for the first shot, though it seems to take an awefully long time to find it again before the second!

[SpeedNeeder]

OK, I went to the range today with my family, and I was able to try out the Sure Fire shot timer on my wife's iPhone.

I was using IPSC paper targets, 2 set up side by side at around 25', mostly shooting 10 rounds at a time, 2 each target back and forth.

What I learned:
I shoot a lot faster when I don't wait for a good sight picutre! I can draw and make 10 shots in around 8s. I recall one time I scored 5 alphas, 3 charlies and 2 deltas doing this.

The only time I had 10 alphas with 10 shots was when I forced myself to see the front sight before shooting, both eyes open all the time, and no blinking! Took me about 12 seconds to draw and fire the 10 rounds. My typical split was about 0.75s, while my average transition was about 0.85s.

So I agree that you should always have a clear sight before taking the second shot, though I see that this will take some practice to become faster at it.

I totally lost the front sight each time I fired, and I would usually find it somewhere to the right when I got it back - sorry benos, i couldn't see the building falling back between the rear sights, so I assume I have some grip and stance things to work out as well.

Maybe I will start a "Watch Me Learn IPSC Thread"!?

This post has been edited by SpeedNeeder: 30 August 2009 - 02:24 PM

[TWHaz]

SpeedNeeder, on Aug 30 2009, 11:01 AM, said:

OK, I went to the range today with my family, and I was able to try out the Sure Fire shot timer on my wife's iPhone.

I was using IPSC paper targets, 2 set up side by side at around 25', mostly shooting 10 rounds at a time, 2 each target back and forth.

What I learned:
I shoot a lot faster when I don't wait for a good sight picutre! I can draw and make 10 shots in around 8s. I recall one time I scored 5 alphas, 3 charlies and 2 deltas doing this.

The only time I had 10 alphas with 10 shots was when I forced myself to see the front sight before shooting, both eyes open all the time, and no blinking! Took me about 12 seconds to draw and fire the 10 rounds. My typical split was about 0.75s, while my average transition was about 0.85s.

So I agree that you should always have a clear sight before taking the second shot, though I see that this will take some practice to become faster at it.

I totally lost the front sight each time I fired, and I would usually find it somewhere to the right when I got it back - sorry benos, i couldn't see the building falling back between the rear sights, so I assume I have some grip and stance things to work out as well.

Maybe I will start a "Watch Me Learn IPSC Thread"!?

Have someone watch your face while you shoot. (close). You may have a flinch or be closing your eyes and/or anticipating the gun firing.
Have someone load your mags with some dummy rounds and have them watch what happens when you shoot.
Have your wife video tape up close, your face while shooting then review it slow mo. Or post it on Youtube and link it here.
You may want to double up on ear protection to lessen noise.
There are a bunch of things a new shooter can be doing or not doing.


You need to focus on that front sight and pull the trigger back and hold it back while watching the front sight settle back into the rear slot. Do this first until you see the front sight all the time.

Then shoot a second shot.

If you can latch on to an GM,M shooter at a match.

Ask them for some help/advice and Listen.

[TWHaz]

Read "Practical Shooting, beyond the fundamentals "

The small amount spent on it will save you hundreds $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ .

The book will explain most of what you are looking to learn.

You will read it again and again as you progress and get even more out of it.

DVC

[SpeedNeeder]

OK, book ordered.

[Houngan]

This is my personal experience over the last three years, when I started shooting competitively.

I had the same questions, read the book, and STILL didn't think that what folks were saying was what they were seeing. You may go through these phases:

1. The slow phase. You're taking two distinct shots, waiting for recoil to cease and then beginning the next shot.
2. The fast phase, no sights. Your focus stays out at the target and you shoot through the image of the sights. THIS IS THE MOST DECEPTIVE AND NEARLY SUCCESSFUL PHASE. Brian calls it "type 2" and it has its uses, but you may find yourself using it in all situations and at all distances, which is a bad thing.
3. The careful phase. You start getting the ability to track the sights in recoil, but you start shooting way too carefully and getting perfect sight pictures. Again, a good phase, but not the ultimate answer.

Brian puts it simply and best, and you have to trust that it will occur after enough practice, thought, and desire to see. You will see what you need to see when you need to see it. BUT, it does take time to train your brain, so don't despair, just keep looking.

Whoops! Wrong thread. Mods, could you move this to the "what are you seeing?" thread? Thanks.

H.

This post has been edited by Houngan: 02 September 2009 - 08:50 PM

[SpeedNeeder]

Good input Houngan. I hope to practice some more this weekend. I want to try and see that darn front sight going up and down!

[SpeedNeeder]

I went to the range today with some family. We had a great time! We're all novice shooters.
I spent most of my time being the RO, but got some shooting in toward the end.

I shot ONLY trying to keep track of the front sight at IPSC targets at about 20 yards. Again, I had to really focus to keep both eyes open all the time. When I fired I could see the front sight jump up and then I lost it, but did find it again as it came back down into the rear sights. I guess that's a success. I was still taking about 0.8 seconds between shots, but I was happy that I was seeing the front sight better, and I had an idea where every shot went. Not sure what to focus on to get those splits down, or if it's just a matter of practice.

[TM262]

As stated above, remove the target for now. Go stand in a bay, focus on your front sight and shoot at nothing. Really focus on seeing the sight. Be able to tell someone else or yourself what it did. Did it track straight up and down, up, right down? Just try to watch the front sight until you are sure you are seeing what it is doing through several shots.