[EmanP]

So I tried Solo 1000 for the first time today since I ran out of Titegroup and I don't see why everyone likes it.

My normal load is a 124gr Montana Gold HP using Win Primers or CCI if I can't find Win and 4.0gr of T.G. That give me a velocity of 1060-1080 or a PF of 132-134, on average. This is out of my Sig 226 with a Barsto barrel. That Barsto is the fastest barrel I have out of several other barrels such as G19's, HK P30's & S&W M&P Service and about 40fps faster than the stock Sig barrel.

Looking through various posts I was seeing that people were loading from 3.8-4.0gr of Solo1000 to make thier PF. So I loaded up some 3.7-4.0gr loads today to chrono and weighed each rounds powder individually to make sure that the needed weight was exact. Great warm and sunny day today, chronorf in the shade, control rounds showed that everything was working and measurements were spot on. My results were dismal.

3.7 - 930.8fps / 115.4pf
3.8 - 946.92fps / 117.4pf
3.9 - 965.1fps / 119.7pf
4.0 - 977.7fps / 121.2pf

Pretty weak. I had to go up to 4.5gr just to get 1053fps / 130.7pf. So now I'm wondering how it is that people are posting making PF with loads that are 15% lighter. The Barsto barrel is as fast or fast in it's 4.4" than a friends G34 barrel. That 4.5gr is filling up most of the case as the flakes are big and fat.

And that brings me to the other issue, Solo 1000 won't meter worth a damn in a Dillion 550 even with the UniqueTek Micrometer. I was getting as much as 0.4gr difference from throw to throw. That's aweful! I was trying to find a way to make Titegroup more consistent than the 0.1gr +/- but a 0.4gr difference is not something I'm willing to put up with. That could totally hose me from making PF to not making PF.

So what is the deal with Solo 1000? What am I missing? The charge needed is more than what others are posting by a significant amount and it won't meter worth a damn even with a super whiz bang micrometer.

[G-ManBart]

What was your standard deviation and extreme spread? That's what really matters, not what the powder measure variation is. How did the loads feel at that PF? How was the accuracy?

I haven't gotten around to loading 9mm with Solo 1000 yet, but I've got 4lbs ready to go. If people are getting good accuracy, reasonable extreme spreads and like the feel I doubt they're going to care that it takes a couple of tenths of a grain more powder to make the same PF...it's a cheap powder to start with so that's not enough of a factor for me to discount it. R

[HSMITH]

Solo 1000 9mm loads were some of the most consistent over the chrono at our state match a few weeks ago.

[Joe4d]

The advantages of Solo 1000 are with Moly coated bullets. Lower burn temp and less smoke with those bullets gives it an advantage that out ways the other problems you mentioned.
I was ready to jump on the bandwagon as I shoot Precision and Masterblasters. I read a bit here even from the people that liked it and found a few things I didnt like, and now with your post I find something else,
So disadvantages include:
Multiple manufacturers so it is inconsistent from jug to jug, so every time you buy it your gonna have to start over.
Poor metering,
slower burning than tight group so will require more to make the same power factor.

Advantages :
Low cost,
Less smoke than tight group
Lower burn temp.

I'm gonna hold off until I can find some WST to run behind Moly bullets in my 6" .40

[Dan Burwell]

I use 4.0 gr behind a 147gr MG bullet, so it doesn't really surprise me it took you more then 4.0 to make PF behind a 124. I think what you are seeing there is the difference between moly and MGs. MGs tend to require more powder to make PF than another brand jacketed.

On the metering, according to SAFriday the metering improves after running 30-40 charges through the charge bar. I personally don't know about this for certain, but what I can say is my loads over the chrono are very very consistent. I take the first 30 rounds and toss them in the practice ammo if I am loading for a big match and have switched anything with my powder measure.

Like it or hate it's cool by me, I just love fact that it is clean, cheap, and consistent over the chrono.

oh yeah I will only buy 8# at a time so I don't have to monkey around with lot variations but twice a year.

[CocoBolo]

Dan +1 it takes on average .4 to .5 more powder to get the MTG up to the same speed as a moly bullet of similar weight. At .2gr more in my open between Zero and MTG. We recovered some MTG and Zeros after firing and compared the rifle marks and the MTG marks were not as deep as the Zero, I think this just means the jacket is a little harder.

I don't do much 9 mm but I loaded a 1000 for my Son In law for the Area 8 Championship MTG 124 CMJ and my favorite powder WST (4.8 gr) big SD did disappoint took as much powder as a 180gr 40, went with 4.3 gr of TiteGroup, same amount as I use for 200gr 40, I don't think he's going to minor out.

My Hornady measure takes about 4 throws after an adjustment to get right, My dillon 650 will throw about .4gr more first time after an adjustment so I alwasy run several throws after an adjustment then weigh it. I've used solo and it I don't recall any issues metering, it shot alot like W231 or WST in my 40.

All of my guns seem to take more powder than the loads found here on the forum.

[Viggen]

So what is the deal with Solo 1000? What am I missing? The charge needed is more than what others are posting by a significant amount and it won't meter worth a damn even with a super whiz bang micrometer.
[/quote]


S1000 has always metered nicely using the 550's for me and I have been using the stuff for 8 or 9 years with WST and WSF as my backups - after throwing away the Unique and Bullseye.
TG is a good powder for 40 but way too much recoil in the 45 compared to S1000 using the same bullet at the same volecity - never have used TG in 9.
As for the charge needed, it's a different powder, of course it's going to require a different amount.
For me S1000 shoots clean, is inexpensive, and shoots soft and use it for 9mm, 45ACP, and 38 Special.

Just go with whatever powder strikes your fancy. They go bang, you like it, it's good. You will find folks likeing all sorts of powders for various reasons. Personally I think the only use for Unique and Bullseye is in the garbage but some folks really like them. They push the bullet out the barrel and they feel comfortable with their load. They all work for their intended purpose.

[Sarge]

I have not used solo1000 but I intend to when I get some molys delivered. Check some of my posts about velocities, MG bullets etc. MG bullets are slow just like others have said. In my gun it takes much more powder to get what others have stated they are able to get.
Solo1000 is one of THE top powders to use with molys or lead. I have seen molys fired from guns with TG and don't let anyone kid you, they smoke like hell. And the solo seems to be softer according to those who have used it.
I have read several posts about solo not metering well so this should not be a big surprise if it happens.
But like many have said, it is cheap and soft so it will take alot of negatives to offset that.

[EmanP]

Thanks for the replies guys. I didn't know it's main advantage was with Moly bullets, I'll have to give it a try with some of those. I was also misimpressioned that it would use the same amount for an equal PF. That's no biggie now that I've been set straight. It was just the metering that really got me. Exteme spread was from 20 - 40 fps. So not too bad, but all those rounds were with controled and individually weighed charges so all rounds for a given weight, were exactly that weight. I'm wondering what it'll be like when I just start pulling the handle. On Wednesday I'm going to load up a couple of hundred and practice with them next weekend and see what happens when I chrono then. I got an 8# jug so I'll be working with it for awhile and it will have to work for Nationals since that's all I have. With so many happy people using it, I figured there's gotta be something to it. Dan, I'll have to try chronoing the first few and then 100 later just to see if that holds true. That would be kinda weird if it did.

This post has been edited by EmanP: 23 August 2009 - 08:20 PM

[SA Friday]

Solo 1000's main advantage is it smokes less than any other powder I've tested with moly bullets. It's also cheap, clean burning, relatively not temp sensitive, and on the faster side of the burn chart for the calibers we play with. I reload with an RCBS Pro 2000, and the meter works differently than a Dillon, but I did and do have to watch solo 1000 closer when I reload compared to powders like TG or N320. Many polish the insides of their Dillon powder measures to help get more consistant throws. There are a few threads on this here in BE. Other reloaders I know have such a distain for the Dillon powder chargers that they retro-fit an RCBS powder charger to their machines.

It takes a little more work to get consistant throws, but the stuff makes up for it in very consistant burns. I've only gotten SD's below 5 once out of a 10 round string, and it was with Solo 1000. Other issues with Solo 1000 that have been well documented in other threads are the inconsistancy of the amount of powder needed from lot to lot. Also, I'm not a big fan of Solo 1000 and lighter bullets in 9mm, but I primarily shoot 147gr bullets out of my production guns and it works just fine with those. I've now loaded it in 40 cal with 170 to 180gr bullets and find it works better with the lead/moly bullets over the MG's for me.

Ultimately, if you are not a fan there are other powders that work with jacketed bullets equal or better than Solo 1000 depending on your reloading needs, but with a moly or lead bullet you will be hard pressed to find something better out there. As I documented in my initial testing to find a powder with moly bullets for my 9mm's, WST was the second best of all I tested. It's cheap and meters extremely well. It's consistant and accurate. It's also reverse temp sensitive like nothing else I've ever shot. Prepare to have different loads based on the season or hot enough for those 90+ temp days.

Lastly, the temp of my guns shooting Solo 1000 compared to anything including n320 is a no-contest. I can handle any part of my gun after running a large stage. I can't do that with TG or N320 or WST or (pick one).

So it's a trade off.

[blind bat]

It's funny you posted this. I decided to take all the powder I have and try to come up with recipes for 1000fps and 1050 fps with everything else equal (bullet, primer, OAL, weather, gun, etc.) I'm looking compare the feel of the powders I have in stock since my pet powder (Titegroup) is almost gone.

I was disappointed in how slow S1000 ran under a MG 124gr CMJ. I actually came here looking to compare my S1000 w/ 124gr FMJ numbers against what other shooters.

Here were my numbers from today using a 124gr MG CMJ @ 1.145" through a CZ 85B
Powder:..TG 4.1gr_______S1000 3.8gr_______S1000 4.0gr_______N320 4.0gr_______W231 4.2gr
Avg FPS:___1061___________874______________893_____________1005____________974
ES__________16____________53_______________47_______________33_____________45
SD___________5____________17_______________13________________9_____________16

I know power burn rates aren't linear but if they were it would take 4.48gr to get S1000 up to 1000fps and 4.76gr to reach 1050!!!! I'm going to bake up a batch of 4.2 and 4.4gr and see how they fly. I'm somewhat hesitant to go more than 4.5gr since that is a full grain over Accurate's (inAccurate?) current max.

Looking back in my notebook: 4.0gr under a Dardas 125gr LRN ran 1031fps, ES: 23, SD: 9. With a Berry's pl. RN and a 1.135" OAL I got 1000fps ,ES: 45, SD:19.

It was about 20 degrees cooler when I took the LRN, Pl.RN data. Is there any chance S1000 is reverse temperature sensitive (ie. air gets warmer, bullets fly slower)?

This post has been edited by blind bat: 23 August 2009 - 11:51 PM

[Tom E]

blind bat, on Aug 24 2009, 01:41 AM, said:

It was about 20 degrees cooler when I took the LRN, Pl.RN data. Is there any chance S1000 is reverse temperature sensitive (ie. air gets warmer, bullets fly slower)?

Yes, but only slightly. Probably not statistically significant.

Ambient temp (~80 deg F) vs out of the freezer (0 deg F) and carried in a cooler.

5" S&W 625, 200 gr Precision RN, 1.200"oal, Fed 150, 5.2 gr Solo 1000. Cold 862 fps avg, Hot 853 fps avg. 16 rounds of each fired.

[scheirere]

Emanp,
What press are you loading on? I tried S1000 recently with similarly unsatisfactory results. Part of my problem was the Dillon 650 I reload on. It's notoriously notchy when it indexes and would slosh flakes of powder out of the case. With most powders, a few flakes isn't a big deal but with S1000, it is. 3-4 flakes is a noticable change in charge weight and combined with problems in throwing the powder, you'll get some pretty big swings. (If you are using a 650, check out this thread http://www.brianenos...showtopic=86570 about smoothing out the index snap.)

Like you, I was getting really big differences in the throw weights. Which likely contributed to pretty big spreads in velocity on random samples of ammo that was mass loaded. Still, the powder shot well, was clean burning and did pretty much what everyone else has described.

[98sr20ve]

EmanP, on Aug 23 2009, 12:15 AM, said:

So I tried Solo 1000 for the first time today since I ran out of Titegroup and I don't see why everyone likes it.

My normal load is a 124gr Montana Gold HP using Win Primers or CCI if I can't find Win and 4.0gr of T.G. That give me a velocity of 1060-1080 or a PF of 132-134, on average. This is out of my Sig 226 with a Barsto barrel. That Barsto is the fastest barrel I have out of several other barrels such as G19's, HK P30's & S&W M&P Service and about 40fps faster than the stock Sig barrel.

Looking through various posts I was seeing that people were loading from 3.8-4.0gr of Solo1000 to make thier PF. So I loaded up some 3.7-4.0gr loads today to chrono and weighed each rounds powder individually to make sure that the needed weight was exact. Great warm and sunny day today, chronorf in the shade, control rounds showed that everything was working and measurements were spot on. My results were dismal.

3.7 - 930.8fps / 115.4pf
3.8 - 946.92fps / 117.4pf
3.9 - 965.1fps / 119.7pf
4.0 - 977.7fps / 121.2pf

Pretty weak. I had to go up to 4.5gr just to get 1053fps / 130.7pf. So now I'm wondering how it is that people are posting making PF with loads that are 15% lighter. The Barsto barrel is as fast or fast in it's 4.4" than a friends G34 barrel. That 4.5gr is filling up most of the case as the flakes are big and fat.

And that brings me to the other issue, Solo 1000 won't meter worth a damn in a Dillion 550 even with the UniqueTek Micrometer. I was getting as much as 0.4gr difference from throw to throw. That's aweful! I was trying to find a way to make Titegroup more consistent than the 0.1gr +/- but a 0.4gr difference is not something I'm willing to put up with. That could totally hose me from making PF to not making PF.

So what is the deal with Solo 1000? What am I missing? The charge needed is more than what others are posting by a significant amount and it won't meter worth a damn even with a super whiz bang micrometer.

I need 4.1-4.2 grs to make 130+ PF with my Stock Barrle G34 and 124gr Montana Gold FMJ's. Shooting in a Chrono Box over a CED M2. You should check your chrono against another just to be sure. CED says you can have a 8% difference in consumer chrono results.

I used to think Solo did not meter well in my 550 as well. It takes about 10+ throws to get it to settle in before I start measuring. If I tap the tube really good it makes a big difference. You want those big flakes to settle in the powder measure before you start loading/weighting things. My loads are very consistent over the chrono. SD's in the single digits is common. It's not a great powder for light 9mm bullets but works fine with 124 gr for me. It does smoke less then TG using FMJ bullets way less using lead bullets.

This post has been edited by 98sr20ve: 24 August 2009 - 12:14 PM

[EmanP]

I'm using a CED chrono and checked a known quantity round in a specific gun like I do before every chrono event to make sure that the results will be accurate. I learned to verify the control the hard way one day when all my testing was wasted and lot's of hours and rounds for nothing. I am loading in a 550 as mentioned earlier. I'll do a lot of loading and testing today so I'm hoping to learn some new things about this new load.

[SA Friday]

Fellas, it's been said before and I'll say it again; OAL is just as huge a factor as the powder charge when determining velocity and chamber pressure. As I played with OAL and Solo 1000 in 40 cal and documented the findings in the 40 cal section, I can tell you .05" OAL can make up to 3pf difference with Solo 1000. All fast burning pistol powders are like this, some more so than others.

The last three posts are all missing OAL lengths. Without that data, it's hard to compare results.

Solo 1000 doesn't have the fastest burn rate in the area of powders we typically use. It isn't the slowest either. If you search and find my original thread when I tested powders with moly bullets, you will see I tested quite a few on the slower side of the charts. 7625 comes to mind, and might be an alternative powder with the 124's. If you want to stick to faster powders, try WST or Ramshot Comp. WST was the second best of all the powders I tried with moly 147gr bullets and might work with 124's, but I haven't tinkered with it.

Hell, TG will work, but you have to accept the smoke screen you will get. If you live in a windy area, it's no big deal. You live in a humid, calm area, you will have to pause to find the targets. I happen to know a M class production shooter in TX that loves moly 147's over TG out of his Glock 34. I can't blame him either. It's uber soft and one of the most accurate rounds I've ever shot out of any gun. The smoke isn't an that big an issue for him in that area of the USA.

[98sr20ve]

He didn't list OAL for his rounds. I know I tend to load longer then most people. But for the record. Mine is 1.135. I will update my post.

[MemphisMechanic]

Solo 1000 is ABSOLUTELY reverse temperature sensitive.

Check my previous posts - I chronod some rounds on fresh out of the freezer, and some that were 115 degrees back to back. Since it's usually hot as hell down here, I find this fact very convenient: Chrono your ammo when it's hot, and if you go somewhere up north where it's forty degrees cooler in the early morning, I know I'll make power factor.

[SA Friday]

MemphisMechanic, on Sep 7 2009, 02:27 PM, said:

Solo 1000 is ABSOLUTELY reverse temperature sensitive.

Check my previous posts - I chronod some rounds on fresh out of the freezer, and some that were 115 degrees back to back. Since it's usually hot as hell down here, I find this fact very convenient: Chrono your ammo when it's hot, and if you go somewhere up north where it's forty degrees cooler in the early morning, I know I'll make power factor.

hmmm, different thread? Can you point out the post? I would love to see what you got for data. I haven't tested to that extreme. I've only tested 30 degree-ish to into the 90's and haven't seen enough variation to make me nervous.

[Tom E]

My results showed Solo 1000 to be reverse temp sensitive but the difference was only 1%. 80 deg ambient vs out of the freezer.

[Sarge]

EmanP, on Aug 23 2009, 02:15 AM, said:

So I tried Solo 1000 for the first time today since I ran out of Titegroup and I don't see why everyone likes it.

My normal load is a 124gr Montana Gold HP using Win Primers or CCI if I can't find Win and 4.0gr of T.G. That give me a velocity of 1060-1080 or a PF of 132-134, on average. This is out of my Sig 226 with a Barsto barrel. That Barsto is the fastest barrel I have out of several other barrels such as G19's, HK P30's & S&W M&P Service and about 40fps faster than the stock Sig barrel.

Looking through various posts I was seeing that people were loading from 3.8-4.0gr of Solo1000 to make thier PF. So I loaded up some 3.7-4.0gr loads today to chrono and weighed each rounds powder individually to make sure that the needed weight was exact. Great warm and sunny day today, chronorf in the shade, control rounds showed that everything was working and measurements were spot on. My results were dismal.

3.7 - 930.8fps / 115.4pf
3.8 - 946.92fps / 117.4pf
3.9 - 965.1fps / 119.7pf
4.0 - 977.7fps / 121.2pf

Pretty weak. I had to go up to 4.5gr just to get 1053fps / 130.7pf. So now I'm wondering how it is that people are posting making PF with loads that are 15% lighter. The Barsto barrel is as fast or fast in it's 4.4" than a friends G34 barrel. That 4.5gr is filling up most of the case as the flakes are big and fat.

And that brings me to the other issue, Solo 1000 won't meter worth a damn in a Dillion 550 even with the UniqueTek Micrometer. I was getting as much as 0.4gr difference from throw to throw. That's aweful! I was trying to find a way to make Titegroup more consistent than the 0.1gr +/- but a 0.4gr difference is not something I'm willing to put up with. That could totally hose me from making PF to not making PF.

So what is the deal with Solo 1000? What am I missing? The charge needed is more than what others are posting by a significant amount and it won't meter worth a damn even with a super whiz bang micrometer.

I loaded a hundred tonight with some new solo1000 I got over the weekend. I took the advice to drop a bunch of charges first to settle the powder. That makes sense since the flakes are huge. I checked several charges during the process and they were all within .1. That is as good as I was getting with TG or 320.

[atbarr]

With Solo 1000, I drop 5 or 6 loads. I then drop ten and weigh. So far, so good.

A.T.

[kgunz11]

Just run N320 and you wont have to worry about smoke or temperature sensitivity. I recommend Solo1000 as the next best alternative to N320, and the TG seems to fly off the shelves in the e-store. I'm having a hard time keeping it in stock so there must be a ton of folks that are really loyal to it. I've enjoyed the N320 for my personal use, which is also hard to keep in stock. We are now, for the first time ever, out of stock on N320. That's the biggest complaint on the N320, availability.

[contactcole]

I'm a fan. I like the "push" recoil of the slower burning powder (compared, for example to Clays and TG). Feels like a light .45acp.

I've been pleased with Solo 1000 metering in my SDB. No issues.

I have noticed what felt (on recoil and sound) like variation in a couple loads when fired. Have not chrono the loads.

I run 3.6-3.8gr in a G19 w/ 125gr LRN ~1.135 OAL. Runs great w/ little smoke compared to TG for example. I've run up to 4gr w/ no signs on pressure in a LWD G19 barrel, but I do noticed the recoil and sound difference.

[Tom E]

My SD's run less than 10 unless the load is too light. I figure that means it drops powder thru my SDB well enough.