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#1 JohnGaultsGun

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 08:10 AM

Hi folks, I was wondering if anyone else had these problems and knows any solutions. I'm using bear creek 125g bullets in a stock glock barrel. Been doing this for a few years without a problem. Recently (in the last year or so), my bullets started to tumble and there was this strange build up of "gunk" on the throat that also prevented the cartridge from fully chambering. The load was 3.9g of TiteGroup and the OAL = 1.120".

The tumbling was so bad, at 5 feet I would see the entire bullet profile on the target! And the gunk build up was severe enough to cause my bullet to separate and stick in the chamber racked the slide and extracted the loaded case!

After talking to some guys locally that had similar issues, I switched to Universal Clays and the tumbling disappeared. However, the build up of gunk is still happening, though slower with Universal Clays. Any ideas?

Thanks,

Gary
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#2 Dan Hefta

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 08:13 AM

Sounds kinda scary to me, that's why I am sticking with FMJ's. Good luck I hope that you get it fixed.
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#3 Graham Smith

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 08:19 AM

What I found with my limited experience with moly bullets is that a certain amount of it "burns off" the base with the bullet is fired. This, and smoke, were particularly notable with fast hot powders like Titegroup. I didn't shoot them long enough for this to be a problem, but I suggest you do a search and you will find several threads where people who do shoot moly bullets discuss the necessary cleaning steps.
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#4 Jman

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 08:44 AM

Have you tried a longer COAL? Depending on the bullet ogive I routinely load my 9 out to ~1.158

My rule of thumb has been to load as long as the Glock mag can handle. Keep in mind it's my way

not necessarily the way. I just get a little :unsure: with short OAL in 9mm using FAST powder.

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#5 Aircooled6racer

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 08:49 AM

Hello: I have shot lots of Precision moly coated bullets through a couple of different Glocks. I do clean the chamber every time I shoot it. The barrel sometimes. I load to 1.140 and never had a tumbling problem. I use Tite Group and Clays. The G17 I shoot now I have shot about 2000 rounds of Moly and about 300 MG JHP. You may try cleaning out the Moly then shoot some jacketed bullets through it. Thanks, Eric

#6 noypi916

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 09:17 AM

I have limited experience with moly bullets. But what I can say is that it's an inexpensive bullet which is GOOD, but the bullets are inconsistent in sizes and weights. I still use it but right after shooting I always run bore snake with kroil oil while the barrel is still warm. I think that helps get the gunk out a bit on mine.

#7 soundwave

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 09:37 AM

Time to get out your bore brush and start scrubbing.

I have experienced the same gunk build up after a few sessions with molys in mt G34 barrel. Have not gotten to the point of tumbling bullets though.

IIRC, Titegroup burns very hot and smokes lead lube like a mofo. It probably just melts the moly lube more than Clays, hence the slower build up with Clays.

Clean it out thoroughly and keep shooting.
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#8 JohnGaultsGun

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 10:48 AM

Have you tried a longer COAL? Depending on the bullet ogive I routinely load my 9 out to ~1.158

My rule of thumb has been to load as long as the Glock mag can handle. Keep in mind it's my way

not necessarily the way. I just get a little :unsure: with short OAL in 9mm using FAST powder.

FWIW.


Actaully, 1.158 was my original OAL when this problem began. I subsequently moved my OAL back to accommodate the "gunk" build up but I have have actually given it more room to "fill" up. I'll try increasing the OAL back up to 1.158" and maybe ease up on the crimp. I've got my crimp set pretty tight thinking it would help the chambering issue. I'll know by end of next weekend and post the results.

I'll also have to start cleaning more often. In the past, I could run 5K without having to clean ... but it doesn't look like that's going to happen any longer. If I have to switch to FMJs full time, that effectively cuts my shooting in half.
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#9 Aircooled6racer

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 10:57 AM

Hello: I only crimp about 0.001-0.002 with the moly's. You really need to clean the Glock more often than that. I clean my pistols after each use just to make sure everything is ok. Thanks, Eric

#10 JohnGaultsGun

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 11:05 AM

Hello: I only crimp about 0.001-0.002 with the moly's. You really need to clean the Glock more often than that. I clean my pistols after each use just to make sure everything is ok. Thanks, Eric


Yep. The old joke around the range is "Why do you clean your Glock?" even after only 5K. I've gotten lazy since shooting Production. I clean my Limited gun (2011) after every match. I'll do the same here.
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#11 Dan Hefta

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 11:14 AM

I did a little checking on the actual savings that I would get if I used Moly vs FMJ's and this is what I came up with. I am not going to say what bullet companies, I am not a salesman for either this is just an FYI.

Moly 115gr bullets $199 for 3500= 5.6 cents per bullet

FMJ 115gr bullets $290 for 4000= 7.25 cents per bullet

This is a savings of 1.65 cents per bullet. This is just and FYI so don't hang me for this, but to me it just isn't worth it. I am sticking with Jacketed bullets.

Edited by danscrapbags, 13 August 2009 - 11:15 AM.

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#12 Greg Bell

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 01:09 PM

I did a little checking on the actual savings that I would get if I used Moly vs FMJ's and this is what I came up with. I am not going to say what bullet companies, I am not a salesman for either this is just an FYI.

Moly 115gr bullets $199 for 3500= 5.6 cents per bullet

FMJ 115gr bullets $290 for 4000= 7.25 cents per bullet

This is a savings of 1.65 cents per bullet. This is just and FYI so don't hang me for this, but to me it just isn't worth it. I am sticking with Jacketed bullets.


In 147gr it is about 3.6 cents difference

I've not had any, but to avoid issues I clean my Glock 34 barrel about every 300 rounds shooting BBI 147gr bullets.

#13 usmc1974

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 02:55 PM

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#14 Jman

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 03:14 PM

:closedeyes:

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#15 MoNsTeR

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 03:21 PM

5K between cleanings is pretty, uhh, "optimistic" for any gun when using moly bullets. The gunk is the price we pay for spending 30%+ less than jacketed.
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#16 Micah

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 03:26 PM

I've shot about 25,000 Precision bullets (molly) through my gun in club and major matches without a single tumble. 1.155 OAL and a good crimp seems to be the panacea for tumbling issues.

I clean my Glock once a month...which is usually after 3-4 matches and some livefire practice.
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#17 GrumpyOne

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 04:44 PM

The tumbling might be caused by the rifling (well, the hexagonal thingy that Glock calls rifling) filling up with lead or moly coating, causing an over pressure situation, but if it cleared up after changing to Clays, probably not. To me though, if the manufacturer states that lead shouldn't be run (I don't own a Glock, but I've been told this on numerous times. It's not that I don't think they are terrific guns, cause they are, it's just they don't fit my hand that well) through the gun, then why take the chance? I mean though, take the price of 20,000 reloaded moly bullets versus the cost of 20,000 reloaded FMJ's; Is the difference in cost between the FMJ's and the moly's enough to buy you a new Glock when the pressure in this one gets to be enough to have a complete frame and barrel failure while you are shooting it? If so, continue.If you don't blow your hand off, you can get a new Glock every 20,000 rounds.
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#18 BlueOvalBruin

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 05:29 PM

Hi Gary,

I’ve been shooting bear creeks out of my G35 (lone wolf barrel) with Win231 and I get some of the same gunk buildup. The buildup in my gun appears to be carbon and moly, no lead. Is your barrel leading at all?

After about 500-1000 rounds or so the rounds get a little sticky, but nothing as severe as what you’ve seen. You probably shouldn’t need to clean too much. When the buildup gets a little excessive I just run a dry bronze brush through the bore a few times and it takes care of the gunk. I’m sure a dry boresnake would accomplish the same thing. Win 231 isn’t exactly the cleanest powder so I picked up some Solo 1000 to see if I can go a few more rounds between cleanings. I haven’t been able to test it yet but maybe someone else here can give some input on it. Some other shooters in the Oceanside club say that it shoots very soft compared to other powders for a given power factor.
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#19 JohnGaultsGun

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 06:07 PM

Yeah, my barrel was leading A LOT with TiteGroup. Not so much with Univeral Clays ... which is what I will be switching to in my G35. I'll be developing a new load for that one this weekend. I have a Barsto barrel in that glock.

I've been using a bore snake after each string in practice. Doesn't help much with the gunk buildup. If I use a bronze brush and a dental pick, it comes right off.
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#20 Greg Bell

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 06:55 PM

Garret,
I would give Solo 1000 a shot, I bet you will like it.

For cleaning I pass a patch soaked with 50-50 mix of Kroil-Hoppes #9, let it sit a bit, a few passes with a brush, another wet patch, then a few more dry patches and it's clean.

Edited by Greg Bell, 13 August 2009 - 06:59 PM.


#21 JohnGaultsGun

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 08:00 PM

The tumbling might be caused by the rifling (well, the hexagonal thingy that Glock calls rifling) filling up with lead or moly coating, causing an over pressure situation, but if it cleared up after changing to Clays, probably not. To me though, if the manufacturer states that lead shouldn't be run (I don't own a Glock, but I've been told this on numerous times. It's not that I don't think they are terrific guns, cause they are, it's just they don't fit my hand that well) through the gun, then why take the chance? I mean though, take the price of 20,000 reloaded moly bullets versus the cost of 20,000 reloaded FMJ's; Is the difference in cost between the FMJ's and the moly's enough to buy you a new Glock when the pressure in this one gets to be enough to have a complete frame and barrel failure while you are shooting it? If so, continue.If you don't blow your hand off, you can get a new Glock every 20,000 rounds.


I've never noticed any pressure signs. With all of the ammo problems that have been occurring, I probably would have noticed ... particularly with the primers. With the powdes I'm using, it doesn't seem to be that much of an issue, at least with the 9mm.

I wouldn't mind switching to a different brand of FMJs. I currently use Montana Gold 147grs. At $305 for 3k, that's .10 per bullet. Anyone else have a similarly performing bullet for less? Out there in Kali, I see Xtreme and Golden West bullets but it goes for almost the same price as MGs so there is not point to doing a switch.
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#22 Aircooled6racer

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 08:57 PM

Hello: I have never had any lead buildup with the Precision bullets. Moly buildup yes. I had to do the Chore Boy copper cleaning pad trick a few times with my Kimber I had. The Moly would build up but would not effect the bullet at all. With the Glocks the moly just seems to fall out with a dry brass cleaning brush. You could try Solo 1000 but it seems to smoke almost as bad as the Tite Group with moly bullets. Clays in a 1911 45 with Precision 200gr moly coated bullets works great. I would give your barrel a good cleaning and see what happens. You may try some MG 121's :cheers: Thanks, Eric

#23 trevoro

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 09:35 PM

If you are going to keep shooting moly out of a Glock, you really should have a barrel made for you out of Rearden Metal. :)
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#24 JohnGaultsGun

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 09:54 PM

If you are going to keep shooting moly out of a Glock, you really should have a barrel made for you out of Rearden Metal. :)


I'll trade you for a pack of $$mokes ... :P
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#25 Lawdawg112

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 10:14 PM

To make your cleaning a lot easier, keep a couple FMJ's in your bag and shoot them last in practice or at a local match and it will blow a lot of the crud out of your barrel before you clean it. I used to shoot a .45 clark custom that would foul lead like crazy. I would shoot 3-5 FMJ's at the end of the match and it would clean about 85% of the bad fouling out of the barrel. What ever is left use a bronze brush with some Sweets 7.62 and you'll be good to go for awhile.

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