[WyoBob]

I have a good friend back in Nebraska who is getting into shooting steel with his new STI. He's right handed and right eye dominate. He's also missing the tip of his trigger finger to the first joint. As a result, he's used to shooting by using his middle finger and does a pretty good job with rifles, shotguns and handguns.

But, he's having a problem with his right index finger touching the slide on the STI and slowing it down to where the pistol malfunctions. He received some advice to switch over and pull the trigger with his support hand index finger. I didn't think much of that idea as it seems very cumbersome.

My advice was to dry fire and draw practice quite a bit and to concentrate on keeping his finger straight and off the slide. Not too elegant but all I could really come up with. I also thought I'd recommend that he use a grip where his off hand index finger pulls on the front of the trigger guard. I came up with this idea as I tried to duplicate the way he has to grip the gun. Because this grip is higher with the right hand, when wrapping my support hand around my right, it feels really weird and very unstable. I know part of this is because of the way I've been gripping my 1911's for thousands of rounds so the new grip feels weird as there isn't good "nesting" of fingers possible. But, pulling back on the trigger guard with my offhand index finger seemed to increase stability quite a bit.

Am I on the right track in advising him? Any other ideas? I think he'll be in good shape if he can "train" his right hand index finger to stay clear of the slide.

WyoBob

[eric nielsen]

I would look again at whether your friend can somehow some way pull the trigger with his shortened index finger.

Merle Edington won the 1994 USPSA Open Championship with a trigger finger that barely went past the 1st joint. I also shot with him quite a few times when we were both stationed in South Carolina. He was called for unsafe gun-handling more than once, with a "do-over" once the RO got a good look at his finger.

Assuming the gun isn't plated you can take metal from the side of the frame behind where even a short trigger wouldn't normally stick out. You can also put 45-degree cuts [Dan-Bedell-style] behind the thumb-safety pins to allow a very narrow grip-safety and a grip that slides your strong hand around the side of the gun.

[SkyScrapin]

Does your friend have small hands? I don't see how a smaller trigger wouldn't work.

Preston

[Flexmoney]

SkyScrapin, on Jul 29 2009, 11:41 PM, said:

Does your friend have small hands? I don't see how a smaller trigger wouldn't work.

Preston

About 9/10 the normal size....


We have a young man that shoots using his middle finger on the trigger. He has been shooting like that since he was a little bugger (couldn't reach) and never changed.

[kz45]

My weak hand has most of my thumb and the first digit of my trigger finger gone, I put a short trigger in it and have no problems, but the transition is slow, don't want to drop it. It can be done

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This post has been edited by kz45: 29 July 2009 - 09:15 PM

[WyoBob]

Thanks for the comments, so far.

I'm embarrassed to admit that, though I've known my friend for over 40 years, I was wrong about how much of his index finger is missing. Now that I think about it, it's at the second joint from the tip of the finger that he's missing. Nothing left to operate a trigger.

So far, there's no comments on the left hand index finger on the front of the trigger guard. From my fumbling around, it seems to add stability for me.

Another thought I had was adding a "Clip Draw" to the pistol: http://www.clipdraw....ion=show_detail That might keep his finger from contacting the slide and slowing it down.

What are your thoughts on this? BTW, he's shooting a double stack STI in 9mm, an Edge, I think?

WyoBob

[Houngan]

I shoot with a guy who also has a missing first joint on his trigger finger, and he shoots an STI just fine in Open. He's also Phillipino and probably not much over 5'5", so I would think he should learn to use his index finger. He might push the gun a bit at first, but should quickly become accustomed.

H.

[COMATZD]

I think the clip draw idea may be the best. Just something to locate the finger consistently and keep it off the slide.

[danny]

COMATZD, on Jul 31 2009, 03:20 PM, said:

I think the clip draw idea may be the best. Just something to locate the finger consistently and keep it off the slide.

Have him tape the two fingers together at the kuckle near the palm, so he can still flex to pull the trigger.

[nwb01]

My good friend "Flash" is missing his trigger finger, doesn't hold him back a bit.

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[eric nielsen]

The ClipDraw is attached under the grip panel of a 1911 gun. The STI doublestack guns don't have a removable grip panel so it won't help on that gun.

It is a great idea for your friend's problem if he ever shot in Single Stack division. Seems like it would work on a Para too.

[Surge]

How about training to "point at the target" with the finger, as a way to keep it off the slide? Basically your original idea but worded in a way to make it conceptually easier.

I can think of another idea that involves modifying the shooter rather than the gun, but it's a little extreme....

This post has been edited by Surge: 01 August 2009 - 07:46 PM

[Greg Bell]

nwb01, on Aug 1 2009, 09:01 PM, said:

My good friend "Flash" is missing his trigger finger, doesn't hold him back a bit.

He came to mind when I saw this thread a few days back. He's SSP/MA isn't he? I SO'd him a few times at bigger matches never seemed to be an issue in any way.

[nwb01]

Greg Bell, on Aug 1 2009, 11:04 PM, said:

nwb01, on Aug 1 2009, 09:01 PM, said:

My good friend "Flash" is missing his trigger finger, doesn't hold him back a bit.

He came to mind when I saw this thread a few days back. He's SSP/MA isn't he? I SO'd him a few times at bigger matches never seemed to be an issue in any way.

Yes, he is a SSP,ESP and CDP/MA, as well as a solid B class shooter. He is also a forum member......... 4.5fingershooter is his name !

This post has been edited by nwb01: 01 August 2009 - 08:19 PM

[Flexmoney]

If he has normal mobility (extension) and just has a lose of mass/length, then he just needs to keep it off the slide.

I'd think he'd need to be using a squared-up shoulders, thumbs-forward grip.

How new is he? He might be locked into a different type of stance/grip, which is giving him less stability, and making him want to get that (right index) finger on the gun to help keep it in control?

So, if he has mobility in the rest of the finger, he just needs to get on board with the "proper" grip and stance and learn to keep that finger from dragging the slide...like we all have had to do.

[WyoBob]

eric nielsen, on Aug 1 2009, 08:34 PM, said:

The ClipDraw is attached under the grip panel of a 1911 gun. The STI doublestack guns don't have a removable grip panel so it won't help on that gun.

It is a great idea for your friend's problem if he ever shot in Single Stack division. Seems like it would work on a Para too.

Eric, I'd forgotten about the double stack. Thanks.

Surge, I mentioned "re-training" to point the finger toward the target when I talked to him on the phone the other day.

Flex, as you said, he just needs to "retrain".

He doesn't shoot in any formal IDPA/Ipsc type shoots. Just local stuff. He's like the rest of us, though. Just wants to get better.

Thanks, everyone, for all of the helpful advice. I appreciate it.

WyoBob

[Flexmoney]

Yeah, if he is any kind or weaver stance, get him out of it. It's move of a right (strong) hand based grip. Where as he can get into more of a left-hand based grip...like many here do anyway (with the squared to the target shoulders and the thumbs forward variations).

[Navysteve]

nwb01, on Aug 1 2009, 09:01 PM, said:

My good friend "Flash" is missing his trigger finger, doesn't hold him back a bit.

Hey that looks like stage 11 at area 3 this year.. I had fun shooting you guys I did not realize that you were shooting with your middle finger.

[nwb01]

Navysteve, on Aug 2 2009, 01:07 PM, said:

nwb01, on Aug 1 2009, 09:01 PM, said:

My good friend "Flash" is missing his trigger finger, doesn't hold him back a bit.

Hey that looks like stage 11 at area 3 this year.. I had fun shooting you guys I did not realize that you were shooting with your middle finger.

Yes it was. Nice shooting with you too Steve