[chefcs5]

Ok so I am still a beginner in my mind so ill post it here. I am getting much much better at the draw, reload, movement.. but .... my accuracy has not improved one bit. I am just doing a small ammount of stand and shooting right now, most of my stuff is dry fire reloads and draws and such. my 2nd shot is always horrible. and subsiquent shots are almost as bad. So i am looking at a simple drill that will help with that. Is it bill drills? as some have told me or what. At this time I cant afford to do a ton of actual shooting so somthing where i could do like 50 rnds or so a week and actually see some improvement.. is there anything out there or is all hope lost until I can afford to shoot 200-300 rounds a week in practice?
any help..

Thanks

o and as to where my second and other shots are hittin..its all over..lol no general area. first shot is usally a good solid A hit

chefcs5

[Loves2Shoot]

I don't know it the best drill, but it works well for me.

Take 1 target and start at 5 yards. Draw and shoot 6 shots the the upper A/B zone in 6 seconds. Once you can get all your hits 3 times in a row, move back 1 yard and repeat until you find the distance you can not get your hits in the 6 seconds. Simple, but not easy.

[Paul Burtchell]

I would start with some bench rest shooting with sand bags. Start at a relatively close distance 10-15 yards and back it up as your proficiency improves. I use to shoot 5 shot groups for accuracy. It doesn't matter if it takes you 5 minutes to get those 5 shots. What you are looking for is a perfect sight picture and perfect trigger control and maintaining that when the shot breaks. You will learn very quickly what a good shot looks like. Using the sand bags takes out most all of the variables.

After some sand bag shooting I would get up close at 5 yards and shoot for groups and try and duplicate what you were doing with the sandbags. Again, take your time one perfect sight alignment/trigger release at a time. As you improve back up your distance. When you are able to keep all of your shots in a 3-4" diameter free handed at 25 yards with a reasonably accurate pistol you are getting fairly proficient.

It's a good idea to begin and end all your practice sessions with some group shooting.


When my Dad was still alive we would do alot of sandbag shooting. After 7 heart attacks he did not have alot of endurance for free hand shooting so I would benchrest shoot with him. We got to where we (with our Clark Custom 1911 Bullseye pistols)could shoot the staples that held up the targets at 25 yards. Yes, it can be done. Of course not often, but that was the goal. You will be surprised just how small of groups you can shoot, with practice. Our GOAL was to have a 5 shot one hole group.

Also, Dryfire, Dryfire, Dryfire. Practice on keeping the sights PERFECTLY aligned as the trigger breaks. Put a dime on top of your front sight post. It must stay on the sight when the trigger is pulled.

Nothing new here, just some experiences from an old ex-Bullseye competitor.

Edited for another tip.

This post has been edited by baerburtchell: 29 July 2009 - 06:15 PM

[Jman]

Start and finish each practice session with 25 rounds at USPSA target. Set it at 20 or 25 yards out. Shoot from a solid sandbag rest. Relax and watch your sights. It's still my favorite part of practice.

[Cy Soto]

chefcs5, on Jul 29 2009, 06:08 PM, said:

I am getting much much better at the draw, reload, movement.. but .... my accuracy has not improved one bit.

Chef,

I feel your pain because I struggle with the same issue. Through the advice of some very helpful and much better shooters I have discovered that my problem is caused by my lack of follow through on the target. I was getting (and still do sometimes) one solid "A" hit and then pulling my second shot into the "C"; usually in the direction of where the second target sits. What I discovered is that I wasn't following through after breaking the second shot and I was more concerned with getting to the next target. Well, needless to say, I was unnecessarily giving away points. I am not saying that this is the same issue that you are having but it certainly sounds familiar since you say that your problem is with your second shot.

Practicing transitions during dry and live fire has helped me to overcome this problem (leaving me to deal with many others). So, in addition to practicing slow/deliberate shots while paying attention to your sights as it's been suggested by other members, I will also advice you to practice some wide transitions to see if this may be the issue that is affecting your accuracy.

[uscbigdawg]

Loves2Shoot, on Jul 29 2009, 05:36 PM, said:

I don't know it the best drill, but it works well for me.

Take 1 target and start at 5 yards. Draw and shoot 6 shots the the upper A/B zone in 6 seconds. Once you can get all your hits 3 times in a row, move back 1 yard and repeat until you find the distance you can not get your hits in the 6 seconds. Simple, but not easy.

I like this a lot. Baby steps.

After many rounds of ammo, I'm stuck doing Bill Drills at 50. One of these times I'll get it.

Dry fire is a huge help, but you've got to be honest with what's going on with your sights when you are dry firing. Learning to call your shot is a key too.

Rich

[badchad]

chefcs5, on Jul 29 2009, 05:08 PM, said:

and as to where my second and other shots are hittin..its all over..lol no general area. first shot is usally a good solid A hit

Instead of a drill, how about shooting your second and following shots just like your first shot?

Sights aligned, good trigger pull...

[mda]

chefcs5, on Jul 29 2009, 07:08 PM, said:

o and as to where my second and other shots are hittin..its all over..lol no general area. first shot is usally a good solid A hit

chefcs5

Sounds to me like you are doing "Double Taps" ie. one sight picture and just yanking the trigger several times.

All shots taken need to have an "acceptable sight picture" before pulling the trigger. When you see where the sights at the moment the gun fires you will then know where the shot went. If you are seeing the sights then you should be able to hit where you are aiming.

Just do the basic drills. WATCHING THE SIGHT ON EACH SHOT and shooting only as fast as you can see.



MDA

[Flexmoney]

Loves2Shoot, on Jul 29 2009, 08:36 PM, said:

I don't know it the best drill, but it works well for me.

Take 1 target and start at 5 yards. Draw and shoot 6 shots the the upper A/B zone in 6 seconds. Once you can get all your hits 3 times in a row, move back 1 yard and repeat until you find the distance you can not get your hits in the 6 seconds. Simple, but not easy.

I like that step back drill.

I put a 4x4in sticker in the upper part of the regular A-zone (not the head). And, 3 shot...no time frame.


(and, I am moving this out of BEginners area. -Admin. )

[Lawdawg112]

Keep that front sight in focus when you shoot too. Don't immediately look to the target to try and confirm where you hit. Stay with the front sight and get a good sight picture and a nice even pull on the trigger.

[Sam]

Another approach is to pick any accuracy test that you can do only rarely, say whack an 8" plate at 60 yds. Then analyze the whole process of sight alignment and trigger control until you can do it much more often. If you make "study" the whole point of the exercise, then there is no frustration when you miss and no taste of pride when you get a hit.

This clinical detachment can do much to help us un-learn what we thought we knew. Practice can be about moving limits instead of re-enforcing them. I can be in a state of mind that says, "this is how I hit the plate! " Or, I can be in a mind state that says, "What do I need to change to hit the plate more often?"

[SV-COP]

I try to end all of my live fire sessions with at least one magazine of group shooting. Where I practice, I'm limited to a distance of about 30 yards and I'll usually put a paper plate at that range. I've found that I shoot my best groups if I'll only shoot 1-2 rounds at a time. If I try to shoot the whole mag at once, the group really opens up.

[latewatch]

Shoot groups and also invest in a few dummy rounds. Put the dummy rounds randomly in your magazine. These dummy rounds will be either a reinforcement that your doing things right or a vivid visual indication that you are not....

[Pezco]

Sounds like good stuff that I can throw into my sessions, thanks!

[Chuck Anderson]

Frank Garcia has a version of the step back I've always liked. 5 in 5 seconds in the A zone. Start at 5 or 10 yards and move back 5 yards when you can do it 3 times in a row. Very similar to what Scott was suggesting. Frank had it broken up by Division where you should be able to get to. If memory serves, 25=GM, 20 =M, 15=A. It reinforces the draw and sight picture on each shot. One of these days I'll do it at 25.

Another drill is to take a 1" orange target dot llike for rifle shooting and make it go away. Normally you do this between 3-7 yards. It's amazing how much accuracy you can work on at 3 yds. I usually finish a practice session with this drill to reinforce accuracy.

The one I've used that seems to help the most with shooters who get freaked out by distance is another version of the step back drill, but on static steel. Starting at 10 yds (for safety). Draw and shoot one round, one hit on the steel. Do it twice in a row and step back one step. I'll have shooters that can't keep 4 out of 8 on the paper at 25 getting hits at 45 and 50 and not realize it. Since the steel I use is about half the size of the target, they go back to 25 and smoke it. If you have he distance to do it, go as far as you can. The last time I did this drill I made it back to 135 yds on a 12" steel with a Glock 17. It's really comforting to know that the long shots in USPSA really aren't that long.

[saibot]

I like this one myself:
http://pistol-traini.../3x5-card-drill

[Hi-Power Jack]

chefcs5, on Jul 29 2009, 08:08 PM, said:

Ok so I am still a beginner in my mind so ill post it here. I am getting much much better at the draw, reload, movement.. but .... my accuracy has not improved one bit. I am just doing a small ammount of stand and shooting right now, most of my stuff is dry fire reloads and draws and such. my 2nd shot is always horrible. and subsiquent shots are almost as bad. So i am looking at a simple drill that will help with that. Is it bill drills? as some have told me or what. At this time I cant afford to do a ton of actual shooting so somthing where i could do like 50 rnds or so a week and actually see some improvement.. is there anything out there or is all hope lost until I can afford to shoot 200-300 rounds a week in practice?
any help..

Thanks

o and as to where my second and other shots are hittin..its all over..lol no general area. first shot is usally a good solid A hit

chefcs5

Try shooting at reactive targets (rotating rather than falling)
steel targets are great - I use 6" plates at 15-20 yards.

You know immediately if you jerked the trigger.

[Mistral404]

My accuracy improves as I improve my trigger control. Drills that re-enforce my trigger control have improved my accuracy.
When I have access to a 6 inch .22 plate rack, my accuracy improves by leaps and bound. There is no mercy in a small plate rack.
When the is not available, I set my targets so that I only shoot head shots. Freestlye, weak and strong hand.
Finally, I use hanging steel at 40-60 yards. My eyesight is bad, so I need to hear the ping. When I am pinging 7-8 out of 10 shots, I am feeling pretty good.
On the cheap side, if you do not have access to a plate rack, I use the Brian Enos plate rack--- small paper plates. I tie two strings between target stands and use paper clips to attach the plates. YOu can use par time like at Bianchi or shoot for accuracy with no time. I do incorporate a draw in almost all my drills. There are pros and cons to using the draw.

I will, however, being doing the Springer method next week.

[sshog8541]

Loves2Shoot, on Jul 29 2009, 05:36 PM, said:

I don't know it the best drill, but it works well for me.

Take 1 target and start at 5 yards. Draw and shoot 6 shots the the upper A/B zone in 6 seconds. Once you can get all your hits 3 times in a row, move back 1 yard and repeat until you find the distance you can not get your hits in the 6 seconds. Simple, but not easy.

This is a great drill.

[TWHaz]

chefcs5, on Jul 29 2009, 05:08 PM, said:

Ok so I am still a beginner in my mind so ill post it here. I am getting much much better at the draw, reload, movement.. but .... my accuracy has not improved one bit. I am just doing a small ammount of stand and shooting right now, most of my stuff is dry fire reloads and draws and such. my 2nd shot is always horrible. and subsiquent shots are almost as bad. So i am looking at a simple drill that will help with that. Is it bill drills? as some have told me or what. At this time I cant afford to do a ton of actual shooting so somthing where i could do like 50 rnds or so a week and actually see some improvement.. is there anything out there or is all hope lost until I can afford to shoot 200-300 rounds a week in practice?
any help..

Thanks

o and as to where my second and other shots are hittin..its all over..lol no general area. first shot is usally a good solid A hit

chefcs5

Save up and get one of these. If it will fit your weapon.

http://www.22lrconversions.com/

Then shoot more.

Still finish up each sesion with regular ammo, just less of it.

[spankaveli]

Awerbuck told us in a class that the best accuracy drill he ever came across was to put a paper plate at 25 yards. Draw from holster and shoot it once. do that 20 times.

Once you can do it 20 times add time limits.

I haven't tried it but I'm sure it can't hurt.

[benos]

Throw out the idea of "second shots."

Only shoot "first shots."

As you shoot more first shots, the time between them will naturally decrease.
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