[mike cyrwus]

I am very inconsistent, especially with these longer 140mm mags. (shooting a 2011)

Sometimes i flinch right as the mag seats and a mag goes flying.
Im concerned about practicing bad technique, so Ive been breaking it down into smaller parts. Ill get out the video camera tomorrow to see what it shows.
I am (was) very good at reloading production guns, and I am noticably better with 126mm mags in the sti. I wonder if I am unconsciously protecting my finger from getting jammed in the magwell during a reload.

Tonight, I noticed that when I would not even look into the magwell and keep my eye on the target during the whole sequence, it felt as though they were smooth and slick. I wonder what this could possibly mean.


any comments would be appreciated. Ill have some video up soon.

thx.

[JimmyZip]

Mike,

Glad you asked this one. I switched to a larger platform this year and am struggling with the same issues. Some weeks I'm good, some weeks I suck. I am frustrated to say the least.

[DonT]

I'm certainly not qualified to instruct but will be glad to share what worked for me.

I started with 140's and Dawson pads so I was already used to them.
I watched Travis T's youtube vid over and over. I broke it down to each frame and movement. I then attempted to copy every move exactly as Travis did. I broke the entire reload down into 3 or 4 sections and practiced each section until it was smooth and memorized. Then put all the sections together and practiced until it was smooth and memorized. When it was smooth and consistant, it was fast.

Oh yeah, after a few times of smashing my finger, it learned to stay out of the way.

I am faster if I'm looking the mag in. But I seldom do. I also used to practice reloads in the dark so I wouldn't have to look and could be focused on where I'm going or my next target. Whatever works for you but I've found that my reloads are more consistant right in front of my face also.

And when I got really good at it...I stopped practicing

This post has been edited by DonT: 08 July 2009 - 12:21 AM

[AWLAZS]

Mike, I find that I will mess my reloads up during practice if I focus on going fast. When I try to smoke one in there I usually hit the mag on the mag well and it goes flying.

I always look the mag into the gun. I only see the mag go into the gun when I mess up. The crash causes me to send my conscious mind to work and focus on a part of the whole.

I really like Matt Burketts reload drills. He stops the mag just short of putting it into the gun. This builds a small pause into your reload that really smooths things out. That little pause is when you get your finger out of the way and use the heal your hand to seat the mag.

[Aristotle]

I always will look the mag into the gun, always. My consistency drops and so do mags when i do not.

In terms of getting reacclimated with the new equipment, there's nothing I've found that will replace hard work/practice. Nothing to it but to do it. You just need to get adjusted to the new gear, and nothing will help that except time, patience and hard work.

If you are proficient at reloading another gun, sounds like you have the fundamentals down, it's just time to get down and intimate with the new gear is all.

[rvb]

received the following advice with a similar question....
http://www.brianenos...showtopic=58727

-rvb

[Xfactor]

Hi Mike,
I'm also just getting used to running a new 2011, having spent a year and a half or so with an M&P...

One thing I've noticed in practicing reloads with my 2011 is that with a magwell, I really don't need to tilt the gun to the point where I can see the whole magwell opening and "look" the mag into the magwell like I did with the M&P. (I still look at the gun as I do it, I just don't need to "focus" on the magwell opening like I did with my M&P.) I use an EGW magwell - which is on the small side, relatively speaking - but it's still plenty big enough to funnel the mag into place if I grab the mag from my pouch properly, and I do my part in getting the gun in the right position for insertion ...and I bold that last part because I've realized that it's what differentiates a smooth reload from a hiccup!
To practice this last part, I spent some time observing/learning the position of my arm and hand as they naturally bring the mag up from my belt. Then I just matched the angle/rotation of the gun to this natural mag position. As it turns out, I really don't turn or rotate the gun that much at all to get in the right position for me... but if it's right, the mags just seem to suck up into the gun like a vacuum.

I've gotten pretty smooth and consistent doing all this standing, but I still need work getting everything right consistently (particularly keeping the gun up by my face) while on the run...

[mike cyrwus]

AWLAZS, on Jul 8 2009, 06:22 AM, said:

I always look the mag into the gun. I only see the mag go into the gun when I mess up. The crash causes me to send my conscious mind to work and focus on a part of the whole.

This.

Ive noticed this as well. I wonder if a reload's success is predetermined. Possibly because of some doubt in your mind before the reload is initiated; or possibly, more likely, because of an incorrect hand index on the mag??


thanks much for the replies.

[SA Friday]

I've found the my reloads improve when I focused on and practiced two main things: Get your weak hand to the new mag and up to the mag well as fast as you physically can, and re-present the loaded gun smoothly and calmly. Don't jab the gun back out. The speed during live fire practice is measured from shot to shot. If you jab that gun out there, you will bounce your front sight all over and burn time calming everything down for a good sight picture to break the shot. I use Burkett's two step method, and encompass the two focal points above.

As for getting your fingers caught, yep it hurt big time. Bend your index finger, don't leave it flat against the front of the mag and you will clear the magwell. Second, the only two things that matter is the mag contacting your palm and the tip of the index finger. Everything else is optional, and just gets in the way. Get it out of the way. Splay your fingers out to stabilize the mag while in your hand. Then all you have to do is open your hand and use your palm once in line and starting to seat the mag. The index finger is there to guide the mag into the magwell hole and at the proper angle.

Some pics that BritinUSA took to show what I'm talking about.

Attached File(s)

•  P6271739.jpg (231.96K)
  Number of downloads: 123
•  P6271740.jpg (271.9K)
  Number of downloads: 132

[SA Friday]

mike cyrwus, on Jul 8 2009, 10:58 AM, said:

AWLAZS, on Jul 8 2009, 06:22 AM, said:

I always look the mag into the gun. I only see the mag go into the gun when I mess up. The crash causes me to send my conscious mind to work and focus on a part of the whole.

This.

Ive noticed this as well. I wonder if a reload's success is predetermined. Possibly because of some doubt in your mind before the reload is initiated; or possibly, more likely, because of an incorrect hand index on the mag??


thanks much for the replies.

DON"T look at the mag. Look at the magwell. I look at the outside edge of the magwell to be specific.

You drive your car where you are looking. If you look at the ditch, you will very soon start to drift the car that way. If you look at the road, you drive nice and straight down the road.

Drive the mag to the well, not the well to the mag.

[Duane Thomas]

Quote

ike, I find that I will mess my reloads up during practice if I focus on going fast. When I try to smoke one in there I usually hit the mag on the mag well and it goes flying.

Relatively recently I've changed my game plan where practicing reloads is concerned. I used to do a lot of descending par time drills. Then it occurred to me that if I do the majority of my practice at slower speeds, then full speed is never going to feel normal, it'll always feel like something "different" or "special". These days I do all my speedload practice at full speed. When you do that, you find in short order that you really do have all the time in the world to execute every facet of the technique well.

Quote

I always look the mag into the gun. I only see the mag go into the gun when I mess up. The crash causes me to send my conscious mind to work and focus on a part of the whole.

My theory is that looking at the mag well, or rather the orange dot I've nail polished on the interior of the mag well, occupies the conscious mind, allowing the subconscious mind to run the exercise MUCH faster and more smoothly.

Quote

I really like Matt Burketts reload drills. He stops the mag just short of putting it into the gun. This builds a small pause into your reload that really smooths things out. That little pause is when you get your finger out of the way and use the heal your hand to seat the mag.

The "pause" is a great technique. Thing is, if you do everything else as fast as possible, mentally you feel like you can afford the time to "pause" the mag into the gun. Realistically, to anyone watching you, the pause is not even detectible. It's debatable whether it even really exists as far as slowing down alignment and insertion of the fresh mag. But to US it seems very real, and it helps.

[Duane Thomas]

Quote

ike, I find that I will mess my reloads up during practice if I focus on going fast. When I try to smoke one in there I usually hit the mag on the mag well and it goes flying.

Relatively recently I've changed my game plan where practicing reloads is concerned. I used to do a lot of descending par time drills. Then it occurred to me that if I do the majority of my practice at slower speeds, then full speed is never going to feel normal, it'll always feel like something "different" or "special". These days I do all my speedload practice at full speed. When you do that, in short order you become used to moving at that speed and discover that you really do have all the time in the world to execute every facet of the technique well.

Quote

I always look the mag into the gun. I only see the mag go into the gun when I mess up. The crash causes me to send my conscious mind to work and focus on a part of the whole.

My theory is that looking at the mag well, or rather the orange dot I've nail polished on the interior of the mag well, occupies the conscious mind, allowing the subconscious mind to run the exercise MUCH faster and more smoothly.

Quote

I really like Matt Burketts reload drills. He stops the mag just short of putting it into the gun. This builds a small pause into your reload that really smooths things out. That little pause is when you get your finger out of the way and use the heal your hand to seat the mag.

The "pause" is a great technique. Thing is, if you do everything else as fast as possible, mentally you feel like you can afford the time to "pause" the mag into the gun. Realistically, to anyone watching you, the pause is not even detectible. It's debatable whether it even really exists as far as slowing down alignment and insertion of the fresh mag. But to US it seems very real, and it helps.

[AWLAZS]

mike cyrwus, on Jul 8 2009, 12:58 PM, said:

AWLAZS, on Jul 8 2009, 06:22 AM, said:

I always look the mag into the gun. I only see the mag go into the gun when I mess up. The crash causes me to send my conscious mind to work and focus on a part of the whole.

This.

Ive noticed this as well. I wonder if a reload's success is predetermined. Possibly because of some doubt in your mind before the reload is initiated; or possibly, more likely, because of an incorrect hand index on the mag??


thanks much for the replies.

Most time when I mess up I am trying, thinking about what I am doing. When you try you suck. If i just do a bunch of reloads they all go well. I don't remember seeing the mag well but I know I looked because I tape myself. Then I say of they are going great lets speed it up. The next thing I see is the mag pinned against the mag well because I missed.

[mike cyrwus]

SA Friday, on Jul 8 2009, 12:06 PM, said:

DON"T look at the mag. Look at the magwell. I look at the outside edge of the magwell to be specific.

Yes, I do this; I wasnt clear in my post.



I have started back doing the pause.

Its one more step I knew about, but didnt want to incorporate another step into a skill that i want to make smooth and as simple as possible. I am afraid that the pause will limit me, bacause I do not want to always have a pause in my reloads. -even if its barely perceptible, its still slowing down.

[No.343]

I don't know a lot about this sport, but I've noticed that there is a sweet spot for my mag reloads. It seems that if the pistol is too far from my sternum I fumble the reload. When the pistol is six to eight inches from my chest the reloads usually go very smoothly. It seems like I have a better view of the mag well while in the sweet spot.

[AWLAZS]

There is a sweet spot but its not the same for everyone.

The small nano second pause is a part of a great reload

This post has been edited by AWLAZS: 08 July 2009 - 06:49 PM

[werewolf45auto]

When I switched to Open from L10 (with a single stack) my reloads were not good. It was crazy but I could hit the ss gun reloads much faster then with the 2011. My second thought was not to worry about it to much because I would not be making any were near the same amount of mag changes as I was shooting L10. Now I have shoot my Open gun in about 5-6 matches and a handful of live and dry fire practice sessions and my reloads are as fast or faster. I look at the magwell, or remember seeing it more during a static reload than on the move. Since I put an ICE magwell on I think the white insert really helps against the black interior of the grip.

This post has been edited by werewolf45auto: 15 August 2009 - 01:48 PM