[Supermoto]

I seem to drop points on fast hoser targets. I feel like I move the gun as I am breaking the shot because my eyes are transitioning to the next target as the shot breaks. This picture is 4 consecutive shots. Before the slide closes, my head is already moving. So, it looks like I need to do a better job calling my 2nd shot, I see the dot on the target, but by the time my finger catches up, my eyes are on to the next target. If my head is following my eyes I can't believe I would be able to see my dot lift

[jkrispies]

Supermoto, on Jun 30 2009, 10:59 AM, said:

I seem to drop points on fast hoser targets. I feel like I move the gun as I am breaking the shot because my eyes are transitioning to the next target as the shot breaks. This picture is 4 consecutive shots. Before the slide closes, my head is already moving. So, it looks like I need to do a better job calling my 2nd shot, I see the dot on the target, but by the time my finger catches up, my eyes are on to the next target. If my head is following my eyes I can't believe I would be able to see my dot lift

Hhmmm... So are you saying that in your mind you're seeing the sights on target, pulling the trigger, and then turning your head, but in reality you're seeing the sights on the target, turning your head, and then pulling the trigger? So in the last photograph, you still have one shot left to fire? I just want to make sure that I'm understanding the question correctly. I suppose that's possible since the distance/time path from brain to muscle is going to be shorter to your neck muscles than the end of your arm... but...

I'd say it's more likely that you're tensing up because of the speed of the "hoser" and that's causing you to not break your shot cleanly. Mea culpa, as well.

[JThompson]

Not enough when I shoot an out C and too much when I see the whole or target move.

This post has been edited by JThompson: 30 June 2009 - 11:40 AM

[Supermoto]

jkrispies, on Jun 30 2009, 02:35 PM, said:

Supermoto said:

Hhmmm... So are you saying that in your mind you're seeing the sights on target, pulling the trigger, and then turning your head, but in reality you're seeing the sights on the target, turning your head, and then pulling the trigger? So in the last photograph, you still have one shot left to fire? I just want to make sure that I'm understanding the question correctly. I suppose that's possible since the distance/time path from brain to muscle is going to be shorter to your neck muscles than the end of your arm... but...

I'd say it's more likely that you're tensing up because of the speed of the "hoser" and that's causing you to not break your shot cleanly. Mea culpa, as well.

that was the second shot. I think it comes don to a lack of visual patiences

[jkrispies]

Supermoto, on Jun 30 2009, 11:52 AM, said:

jkrispies, on Jun 30 2009, 02:35 PM, said:

Supermoto said:

Hhmmm... So are you saying that in your mind you're seeing the sights on target, pulling the trigger, and then turning your head, but in reality you're seeing the sights on the target, turning your head, and then pulling the trigger? So in the last photograph, you still have one shot left to fire? I just want to make sure that I'm understanding the question correctly. I suppose that's possible since the distance/time path from brain to muscle is going to be shorter to your neck muscles than the end of your arm... but...

I'd say it's more likely that you're tensing up because of the speed of the "hoser" and that's causing you to not break your shot cleanly. Mea culpa, as well.

that was the second shot. I think it comes don to a lack of visual patiences

If that was the second shot in the sequence of photographs, then I believe the bullet had already left the gun well before your head started turning. Remember, the bullet will leave the barrel before the brass ejects, so it was already heading downrange even before your photographic sequence began.

When you miss the shot on the second firing, where does it go? Are you consistently high, low, all over the place...?

There was recently another posting of a slow-speed video of a few members shooting; one of the shooters had a lot of gun bobble while the other was fairly stationary. It was suggested that the "bobbler" was using too strong of a recoil spring, which was causing the gun to dip forward as the slide returned to battery. That's gotten me to thinking, because I've been having an issue where I know I'm seeing the sights on target when I'm do a fast two shots on paper, but when I check the paper my second shot is way low. I'm also using a heavy spring. This is making me wonder if I'm seeing the sights on target as the gun is coming back into battery, but by the time I'm pulling the trigger, the nose is actually dipping down from the heavy spring. I'm going to order a lighter spring to see if that helps, but I also need to wait to make sure that the gun is settled before I fire that second shot I dunno... maybe just thinking outloud for my own benefit right now...

[JThompson]

For us open guys I call it being a student of the dot.. I look for the initial jump as it starts to come up and then my eyes are moving.

[Supermoto]

jkrispies, on Jun 30 2009, 03:10 PM, said:

When you miss the shot on the second firing, where does it go? Are you consistently high, low, all over the place...?

My C and D hits are usually at the same height just either to the left or right.
I'm not sure where the hit was on this target. I'll have to tape other large transitions and compare my follow through and my hits

[Flexmoney]

Although I don't think it is how Brian wrote it, I like to separate visual patience from follow-though.

I use visual patience on the front end to see what I need to see.

I use follow-through on the back end to stay with it to see what I need to see there.

That is just my personal way of making a slight distinction.


+++++++++++++

You are shooting with a speed focus and not a visual focus. That is clear from your actions to your words. If you don't change that mindset, you will continue with this struggle, in my experience.

[CHA-LEE]

Why would you want to transition your eyes to the next target ultra fast when you are actually looking at it through a wall and it can’t be engaged? I can see it making sense if your next target can be immediately engaged, but in the pictures you used as an example, you still need to physically get into the next shooting position before you can even engage the next string of targets. In that situation there should be nothing stopping you from taking the extra 1 – 2 tenths of a second to watch the dot lift as the shot breaks to call the shot, THEN move your eyes and head to the next target to engage.

Even though your head isn’t obviously moved in the picture you are still probably initiating the head movement before you should. I have found that pretty much any time I initiate my head movement off of a target before or right as the shot breaks my hits are way worse than just sticking with it until after the shot breaks and then initiate the movement of my eyes/head. Your eyes pretty much guide your head movement so if you think that you can snap your eyes over to the next target and not move your head, you are mistaken.

You can see WAY faster than you can shoot or transition between targets so don’t worry about taking a little extra amount of seeing time to accurately call the shot as it breaks.

[Supermoto]

CHA-LEE, on Jul 1 2009, 12:29 PM, said:

Why would you want to transition your eyes to the next target ultra fast when you are actually looking at it through a wall and it can’t be engaged? I can see it making sense if your next target can be immediately engaged, but in the pictures you used as an example, you still need to physically get into the next shooting position before you can even engage the next string of targets. In that situation there should be nothing stopping you from taking the extra 1 – 2 tenths of a second to watch the dot lift as the shot breaks to call the shot, THEN move your eyes and head to the next target to engage.

It was a wide transition to targets that were almost behind me

Here is the video of the stage, It did not go so well for either of us, since the steel would not drop

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=ZqJZN0IjTWk

This post has been edited by Supermoto: 01 July 2009 - 09:39 AM

[jkrispies]

CHA-LEE, on Jul 1 2009, 09:29 AM, said:

I have found that pretty much any time I initiate my head movement off of a target before or right as the shot breaks my hits are way worse than just sticking with it until after the shot breaks and then initiate the movement of my eyes/head. Your eyes pretty much guide your head movement

This statement reminded me of something unrelated, but kind of related. A motorcycle riding instructor once told me, "If you don't want to run over an object in the road, don't look at it; look at where you want to drive the bike. If you look at what you don't want to hit, you'll more than likely hit it." I found that to be true when I was riding, and it's also true of shooting: if you fixate on the no-shoot rather than the target, you're more likely to hit the no-shoot; if you're occupying your mind with the next target rather than the one you're supposed to be engaging at the moment, you're likely to miss in the direction of that next target.