[fourtrax]

I help run a local match. I have seen people win 3 or 4 out of 5 of our stages and not be the overall winner for there division. I'm not the HF guru some are, but are there any good bets on stage mixture to prevent this from happening. Is it as simple as 1 classifier, 1 short, 2 medium, and 1 long course of fire. Generally, my club goes all out. Will too many long courses exacerbate this outcome?

Sundays match (148 rnds) the Open division had 5 competitors. One "b" class guy won 3 of the five stages and was 2nd on the other 2. An "a" class guy won 2 stages and was 3rd once and 2nd twice. The "b" class guy also shot 5% more A's than the "a" guy. Their times are very comparable. Just reading that and you might conclude that the "b" class guy won the overall, well,....You'd be wrong. I just want to know how to balance the courses better.

I was shooting with a Master class shooter once and we got to a stage at a local match and he said that "This is the match". The stage was a long course and he went into a brief explanation as to why the match would be won on that one long course. I can't remember his reasoning.

Any thoughts or suggestions,..... oh and I am the "b" guy in the above match.

Edited to say: The "a" guy had 2 mikes, but was 9 seconds faster for the whole match. The "b" guy(me) shot a clean match. It just doesn't seem right.

This post has been edited by fourtrax: 15 June 2009 - 02:55 PM

[Joe4d]

USPSA scoring favors speed . Its just a fact of the game.

However the minute you start picking and choosing stages to hinder this guy or help that guy, or help this gun division or hurt that division or make stages revolver, production or SS neutral you have destroyed the integrity of the game. Mix it up make up stages that have multiple solutions. Stages where a slow running accurate shooter can take a hard shot, or a fast running less accurate shooter may choose to run. Never ever ever think about guns or capacity or physical capabilities of specific shooters when you build stages.

[boz1911]

A thirty two round stage has the same match point value as two sixteen rounders. That's just the way it is, unless you design every stage with the same point value.......................boring

[wooddog]

(2) 30 - 32 round stages, (1) 16 - 18 round stage (2) 22 - 26 round stages Seems like a good balance to me

[fourtrax]

Never thought of that boz1911, but yeah, I see your point. I guess I'm looking for the best all around mix. I guess I thought someone had some ideas or did some math or something, that would enable the club to come up with a more balanced approach. What's the best mix for balance? That's my question. I don't want a shooter to drive to our match and outlay who knows how much money and win 3 or 4 stages and not win the match. I'm looking for balance. Or, is that scenario always going to be present no matter the mix (short, medium, long) of stages? The whole running a match thing is fairly new to all of us and we want it to be as good and equal to everyone as possible.

[VegasOPM]

I still struggle with this from time to time. The truth is, you can't really make it equal for all shooters- faster shooters with any semblance of control end up towards the top. I try to make it fun and challenging for everyone. I try and throw in a few tight shots, movers and some longer shots on long (32+ rd) courses, just to add to the challenge. With the current ammo and primer shortage, I have brought the overall ammo requirements down to around 100 rounds or so (not including makeup shots). I have at least one 30+ rd stage, a couple of 22-28 rd stages, one 16-20 rounder and a speed shoot of 6-12 rds. I don't worry too much about being SS or Revolver friendly to be honest. Everyone in the class is up against the same stage, and strategy and reloads matter a lot.

I think that the bottom line is to have multiple ways to shoot a stage and don't make all of the stages in a match, or matches in a year look the same.

[Spray_N_Prey]

VegasOPM, on Jun 15 2009, 09:23 PM, said:

I don't worry too much about being SS or Revolver friendly to be honest. Everyone in the class is up against the same stage, and strategy and reloads matter a lot.

I think that the bottom line is to have multiple ways to shoot a stage and don't make all of the stages in a match, or matches in a year look the same.

You still have to design stages that require no more than 8 rounds being fired only from a single location or view, so yeah if your doing it by the book, it's going to be SS neutral.

[tad]

Everyone likes to shoot as much as possible. For local matches you have some latitude, throw in a big field course once in a while 40-45 rounds. I don't think I have heard anyone complain about shooting to much!!

[VegasOPM]

Spray_N_Prey, on Jun 17 2009, 02:59 PM, said:

VegasOPM, on Jun 15 2009, 09:23 PM, said:

I don't worry too much about being SS or Revolver friendly to be honest. Everyone in the class is up against the same stage, and strategy and reloads matter a lot.

I think that the bottom line is to have multiple ways to shoot a stage and don't make all of the stages in a match, or matches in a year look the same.

You still have to design stages that require no more than 8 rounds being fired only from a single location or view, so yeah if your doing it by the book, it's going to be SS neutral.

Yes I follow the rule book, but I don't consider reloads when designing a stage. As an example, imagine a 6 rd array, 4 rd array, 8 rd array, and a final 4 rd array. Technically legal, but not SS friendly. Again, I don't go out of my way to mess with the SS guys.

[Spray_N_Prey]

yeah I hear the SS guys wha wha on some local matches. hehehe i've just started shooting revolver and I tell them "try shooting where you doing a standing reload LIKE EVERY STAGE".

but back to stage design I look at it this way, SS guys compete against SS guys, limited against limited, etc... so it all works out.

Now getting back to the OP, don't worry about it like someone already stated, USPSA scoring favors speed, even though some might say otherwise.

Here's how I try to setup a 5 stage match. 1 classifier (usually 12 rounds or less), 1 course with around 18-24 rounds, then the other 3 higher round counts. People come out to shoot and I know when I hit a match (especially if it's 1 1/2 to 2 hour drive) and there's 2-3 18-22 round courses, I feel cheated. I want high round counts and big stages. Maybe not everybody feels that way but that's how I feel. I will usually try to mix up with a hoser stage then an accuracy stage etc.. You will find that some shooters will go balls to the wall when it's a hoser stage, but throw in some accuracy / lots of tight shots / no-shoots that it really slows them down or racks up the penalties.
here's a cool idea.

1. Medium course

2. Long course with accuracy as the theme

3. Long course just a hoser stage

4. classifier

5. prop intense long course

As far as trying to design stages that gives you a lead or advantage over another shooter, forget about it. Just shoot to your potential and find your weaknesses and make them your strong points. Watch the other shooter in question and see why he's beating you. Is he that much faster than you? It sounds like accuracy is your strong point. Just learn to get in / out of shooting areas faster, etc... don't try to shoot faster, just do everything else faster and keep shooting points. In time your speed will improve and then you've already got the edge in accuracy and you'll beat the pants off of a fast / inaccurate shooter.

There's a reason the other shooter is an "A" class. Learn from it.

This post has been edited by Spray_N_Prey: 18 June 2009 - 12:43 PM