[Get'em Duck]

OK, Course of fire calls for gun loaded and ALL mags for stage to be on table, I shoot single stack and its a 32 round stage so I'll want gun and 4 mags on the table (plus the one in the gun makes 5)... do I have to replace mags into my mag pouches to start can they just be put into a pocket? what is the best way to handle this?
Thanks
~Duck

[CHA-LEE]

Well.... given that you are shooting single stack and will need a bunch of magazines for a 32 round COF, I would probably vote for picking up the mags and putting them in your normal mag pouches. Verses having them randomly placed in a pocket. If you put them all in your mag pouches all of your reloads during the stage will be normal. Verses digging into a pocket to find a mag then pulling it out to find that it is upside down, backards or have the top round pushed half way out or something like that. You will waste a lot more time fumbling with magazines pulled from a pocket, verses taking a few extra seconds to place the mags on your belt where they normally go.

Since you know you will have to do this on the stage, practice the process at home. Figure out the most effective placement of the magazines on a table that allows you to quickly pick up each magazine and place it in the appropriate mag pouch. Once you figure out a good "magazine pickup plan" and practice it 10 - 15 times it will be easy street when you get to the match.

[ChuckS]

Depending on the type of mag pouch you have, you may want to bevel in a "mag well" to aid in fast stowage of the mags.

Later,
Chuck

PS: Yup, mags in pockets will invariably find the worst position for your hand when you do finally get a hold of one...

[whatmeworry]

You can do whatever you want with the mags on the table IF the written stage instructions do not tell how the mags on the table must be dealt with. Stuff them in your pockets, in your mag pouches one or more of them might be a magnet. At the Single Stack Classic a couple of years ago I loaded the gun, took one mag in hand to a port with a ledge on which I put the mag. I shot the targets in that port and then reloaded with the mag on the ledge while moving to a second port. Shot those targets and reversed course back past the start table where I picked up another mag and shot the last port of the stage.
Everything depends on the written stage instructions. After that it's up to you to pick the best strategy for the stage.
CYa,
Pat

[CHA-LEE]

That is a good point. What you actually have to do with the mags on the table really depends on the stage layout. If the COF has you returning close to the table then just leave the mags there and pick them off of it as you go by.

You also need to think about multi tasking, such as slapping a mag into the gun but not racking the slide until you are moving to the first shooting position. This would allow you to pick up the last magazine off the table and put it on your belt then rack the slide last all while you are moving towards the first shooting position. You want to be standing stationary at the table fumbling with magazines as little as possible. If I had to pick up 5 magazines and my gun off of a table then move off to the first shooting position I would do it as listed below.

(1) Get to the table as fast as possible.

(2) Grab the first mag with my left hand and place it in the mag pouch, while doing this I would grab the next mag with my right hand and start feeding it to my left hand to place into the appropiate mag pouch. I would do this for the first three magazines.

(3) While placing the third magazine on my belt I would grab the pistol with my right hand and by then my left hand should be free to grab the 4th mag to seat into the gun, but not rack it.

(4) I would then grab the 5th magazine with my left hand and start moving towards the first shooting position as I place it into its mag pouch. Once the 5th mag is on the belt then I would rack the slide and by then you should be in the first shooting position ready to engage targets. From this point on its all normal performing your reloads as you would always do them.

[John Heiter]

Grab a handful of mags w/ your left and start shooting SHO

[IronEqualizer]

According to how the stage briefing is written I would do the ultimate gamer way and leave them on my belt and place the belt on the table.

AL

[jkrispies]

I really like the idea of carrying them to ledges, etc., but I know that I'd personally take off running at some point and forget them! That's just me.

I'd practice these two options a few times at home on the buzzer to see which is faster:

Option 1
1) stack 4 magazines on top of each other with all bullets facing the same direction
2) place one magazine to the side for a quick load
3) at the buzzer, lift the stacked 4 mags and place them in your pocket so that they're facing the same direction as if in the pouch (ie, straight up and down, bullet forward)
4) load and go for it

Depending on how your pants are configured and how tight they are, they may stay in this position through your running. They won't draw as quickly as from the mag pouches, but drawing from the pocket may be quicker than trying to squirrel them into your pouches: remember, 1911 mags aren't tapered on the end like a double stack, so it takes a bit more dexterity to quickly AND SECURELY get them in the pouches. When trying this one out, I'd also take a couple laps around the backyard with some hard starts and stops to see how they stay put in your pocket!

Option 2
Stack them so that they are fanned or staggered so that you can pick them up one handed but still easily get the top of the mag into the pouch quickly and without obstruction. If this last option works best, consider picking up all five at once and going from "pouching" the 4th mag to loading the gun; this will save you some movement from having to go back down to the table and back.

I hope that makes sense?

This post has been edited by jkrispies: 26 May 2009 - 02:05 PM

[Supermoto]

We had a stage with a start like that, One of the SS shooters lines the mags up so that they were all touching parallel, but staggered in height... kinda like the bars in those stupid AT&T commercials. Grabs them all at once with his left hand and easily loads each one into their mag pouches. Last one went into the gun

[jkrispies]

Supermoto, on May 26 2009, 02:07 PM, said:

We had a stage with a start like that, One of the SS shooters lines the mags up so that they were all touching parallel, but staggered in height... kinda like the bars in those stupid AT&T commercials. Grabs them all at once with his left hand and easily loads each one into their mag pouches. Last one went into the gun

That's a much more succinct and understandable way of saying what I meant in my post right before!!!

[Spray_N_Prey]

IronEqualizer, on May 26 2009, 03:45 PM, said:

According to how the stage briefing is written I would do the ultimate gamer way and leave them on my belt and place the belt on the table.

AL

would there be any problem in this?

[G-ManBart]

Spray_N_Prey, on May 26 2009, 10:38 PM, said:

IronEqualizer, on May 26 2009, 03:45 PM, said:

According to how the stage briefing is written I would do the ultimate gamer way and leave them on my belt and place the belt on the table.

AL

would there be any problem in this?

Probably....even though I LOVE the idea. Rule 5.2.3 says "Unless otherwise specified in the written stage briefing, the belt carrying the holster and all allied equipment must be worn at waist level. Putting it on the table is pretty clearly not "worn at waist level". R,

[IronEqualizer]

G-ManBart, on May 26 2009, 09:46 PM, said:

Spray_N_Prey, on May 26 2009, 10:38 PM, said:

IronEqualizer, on May 26 2009, 03:45 PM, said:

According to how the stage briefing is written I would do the ultimate gamer way and leave them on my belt and place the belt on the table.

AL

would there be any problem in this?

Probably....even though I LOVE the idea. Rule 5.2.3 says "Unless otherwise specified in the written stage briefing, the belt carrying the holster and all allied equipment must be worn at waist level. Putting it on the table is pretty clearly not "worn at waist level". R,

If a holster is not used then why must it be worn? And in this scenario it will be worn at waist level when the course of fire begins.

AL

ETA 5.2.5.3 Blows this out of the water.

Unless specified in the written stage briefing, or unless required by a Range Officer, the position of holsters and allied equipment must not be moved or changed by a competitor during a match.

This post has been edited by IronEqualizer: 26 May 2009 - 10:03 PM

[G-ManBart]

IronEqualizer, on May 26 2009, 10:54 PM, said:

G-ManBart, on May 26 2009, 09:46 PM, said:

Spray_N_Prey, on May 26 2009, 10:38 PM, said:

IronEqualizer, on May 26 2009, 03:45 PM, said:

According to how the stage briefing is written I would do the ultimate gamer way and leave them on my belt and place the belt on the table.

AL

would there be any problem in this?

Probably....even though I LOVE the idea. Rule 5.2.3 says "Unless otherwise specified in the written stage briefing, the belt carrying the holster and all allied equipment must be worn at waist level. Putting it on the table is pretty clearly not "worn at waist level". R,

If a holster is not used then why must it be worn? And in this scenario it will be worn at waist level when the course of fire begins.

AL

Rule 5.2.5.3 would seem to apply:
"Unless specified in the written stage briefing, or unless required
by a Range Officer, the position of holsters and allied equipment
must not be moved or changed by a competitor during a match."

I've never seen a ruling on this, but it would appear that having your belt on the table, rather than on your waist, after the start, would violate 5.2.5.3 even if you put it back before you started shooting. R,


Edit to add: you also wind up with the problem of what to do with the gun at the end of the COF if you don't have a belt on....some places don't let you bag/unbag on the line.

This post has been edited by G-ManBart: 26 May 2009 - 10:02 PM

[IronEqualizer]

I think this rule 5.2.5.3 gets overlooked a lot. I have seen guys moving mag pouches back and forth, take one off in the front for prone, changing angles, etc. I think this is not a widely known rule. Sorry for the thread drift.

AL

[rstimpfling]

I bought a big magnet just for this purpose. I place the magnet in my front pocket, gab all the mags and stick them to the magnet. I shoot production so I can put 4 mags with 10 rounds on the magnet easily and run without them falling off. It is a lot faster than putting the mags in the mag holders.

[Nik Habicht]

rstimpfling, on Jun 7 2009, 02:10 PM, said:

I bought a big magnet just for this purpose. I place the magnet in my front pocket, gab all the mags and stick them to the magnet. I shoot production so I can put 4 mags with 10 rounds on the magnet easily and run without them falling off. It is a lot faster than putting the mags in the mag holders.

Welcome to OPEN......

See Appendices D4 Item 12 and E3.....

[ChuckS]

rstimpfling, on Jun 7 2009, 11:10 AM, said:

I bought a big magnet just for this purpose. I place the magnet in my front pocket, gab all the mags and stick them to the magnet. I shoot production so I can put 4 mags with 10 rounds on the magnet easily and run without them falling off. It is a lot faster than putting the mags in the mag holders.

And you may have some issues with this one also:

5.2.4 During the course of fire, after the start signal, unless stipulated otherwise
in the stage procedure, spare ammunition, magazines and speed
loading devices shall be carried in retention devices attached to the
competitor’s belt and specifically designed for that purpose. A competitor
may also carry additional magazines or speed loading devices in
his pockets and retrieve and use them without penalty once having
dropped or exhausted his primary magazines.

ETA: if it proves your pocket pal is legal, you would have to use it for the whole match according to this:

5.2.5.3 Unless specified in the written stage briefing, or unless required
by a Range Officer, the position of holsters and allied equipment
must not be moved or changed by a competitor during a match.

This post has been edited by ChuckS: 07 June 2009 - 11:44 AM