[DVC247]

Within the next couple of weeks I am going to be getting one of the new (all steel) SIG USPSA 226s to test drive extensively for an article for Front Sight. I have played with one already and have some impressions, but I am looking to benefit from other people's experience--factory recoil spring is 15 lbs, I presume I should switch that out? To what weight, 11 or 12? Planning on getting a trigger job too, probably bevel the mag well as it seems really tight (and I'm told most SIGs are like that). Anything else I should know or do? Spare parts for those known to break frequently, etc?

FYI Master class, and I have been shooting Production Division exclusively for the last 4 years, with a Glock.

[HuskySig]

My recommendation would be to send your P226 off to Bruce Gray and let him do his full competition upgrade.

The only parts that I've ever broken were the firing pin and firing pin positioning pin due to lots of dry fire without a snap cap.

In my experience, springs are the only things that wear out. I prefer the 14 lb recoil springs and 17 lb mainsprings.

[robertbank]

Why not leave it stock and report on the pistol as it comes to you. We shuoldn't have to spend a grand on a pistol and another $500. replacing parts and getting parts fitted properly so the gun will operate smoothly.

Sorta like the writers who say gun shot a great 2" group at 21 feet aka 7 yards with one called flier. Ya right!

Take Care

Bob

[Bear23]

Where would one buy such springs. i.e. for an X5? Many of us won't want to send our guns to some guy, me included.

[DVC247]

I have talked to Bruce Gray's shop, but I don't want to go too far with the gun, as it won't be mine (until perhaps after I'm done with the article, I might have an opportunity to buy it), and I hate to put big $$ into someone else's gun. My local gunsmith is worldclass and does work on SIGs. I noticed when I was (briefly) shooting the 226 I was missing with some follow-up shots, and was wondering if it was because of the heavier recoil spring. Muzzle bounce? Factory recoil spring on my Glock is 17#, and I (and most everybody else) runs a 13#. Only time behind the trigger will tell for sure, but I tend to like lighter recoil springs. Anybody make a "Shok-Buff" for SIGs? I see Buffer Technologies makes a whole recoil system around the recoil spring guide, but I don't want that.

Learning the DA/SA transition will be a good amount of work. 95% of all my practice (as usual) will be dry-firing, so I probably ought to get a spare firing pin, etc--would I pick that up from SIG or a supplier?

[HuskySig]

DVC247, on May 19 2009, 01:36 PM, said:

...so I probably ought to get a spare firing pin, etc--would I pick that up from SIG or a supplier?

You can get spare parts for Sigs from Brownells or Top Gun Supply.

[DVC247]

I want to do a little work on the gun as comparing a factory-stock gun to a competition-tweaked Glock just ain't fair. And part of the article is...how much work do you have/need to do on it to get it competitive? If I wasn't going to tweak the SIG, I should compare it to a factory-stock Glock 34 with the horrible plastic sights and a 5+ lb trigger (which is how heavy mine was from the factory even with a 3.5# connector).

[DVC247]

Bear, you can get replacement recoil and hammer and firing pin springs for just about anything from Wolff (I think they're gunsprings.com?)

[HuskySig]

Bear23, on May 19 2009, 01:35 PM, said:

Where would one buy such springs. i.e. for an X5?

I've never seen an X-5 disassembled, so I don't know if the springs in an X-5 are the same as what's in a regular P220 and P226. I do know that the X-5 recoil spring assembly is quite different from the regular P220 and P226 recoil assembly.

I get my spare recoil and mainspring springs from Wolff.

[Bear23]

It looks like something from Star trek. they have the usual double helix or whatever it is spring then some sort of strange milled cap, then another spring beyond that. Looks neat, but still has the WTF factor.

[HuskySig]

DVC247,
It just dawned on me what would be perfect for you:

Grayguns DIY Competition Upgrade Kit

It has all the parts you'll need to upgrade your P226ST, except for a lighter recoil spring.

[Boyd]

You might also want to see if Bruce Gray could loan you a finished P-226 competition pistol so you could do a comparison as one aspect of your article. Grayguns SIG's are out of this world.

-MB

[hk_mtbr]

DVC247, on May 19 2009, 04:41 PM, said:

Bear, you can get replacement recoil and hammer and firing pin springs for just about anything from Wolff (I think they're gunsprings.com?)

DVC - Where are you located? I have a GGI 228 that you could use to compare possibly.

[DVC247]

I'm in the Detroit area, but there is someone locally who has a Bruce Gray tuned stainless 226 with an awesome trigger for comparison if I do need it.

[Rln_21]

I work for Grayguns but I am not going to recommend our work one way or the other, there are plenty of others that can give their opinions. I would definitely be hesitant to put too much money into a gun that might not even end up being mine...

However, to answer some of the questions in the thread:
I would not be going for a lighter recoil spring, the Sig factory braided recoil springs are much more durable than a Wolff single strand spring and unless you are tuning it to run with a specific lighter hand load then I would leave the factory spring in there. I would also strongly recommend against using any sort of Shok-Buff or buffer assembly in your Sig.
Since your gun is new then it probably has a really horrible trigger that I would guess would account for your problems with the follow up shots. The brand new Sigs are completely full of MIM parts now and they make for terrible triggers from factory. You have the SRT system so you are almost certainly experiencing a tolerance issue with the SRT sear the we have termed "SRT bump" which really negatively affects the DA pull. In order to combat a tendency for the SRT system to follow since the SRT does not keep the firing pin block safety engaged between shots (like the original Sig DA/SA does), Sig Sauer greatly increased the sear engagement in the full cock notch of the hammer so your SRT system will also more than likely have a very long and creepy SA trigger pull.

The X-5 uses a standard Sig recoil spring (orange for the 9mm and green for the .40/.357) and therefore accepts standard sized Wolff aftermarket recoil springs as well.

This post has been edited by Rln_21: 21 May 2009 - 06:46 PM

[IL-SIG]

DVC247, on May 20 2009, 10:11 AM, said:

I'm in the Detroit area, but there is someone locally who has a Bruce Gray tuned stainless 226 with an awesome trigger for comparison if I do need it.

I'm that guy. I would be happy to work talk with you about this comparison. Probably shooting at Racoon tomorrow...

[SA Friday]

If you want to know what a P226 needs to be competitive in Production Division, there is only one guy I would be talking to: Roger Sherman. He's Sig sponsered. I'm sure they have his #.

[spd522]

DVC247, on May 19 2009, 02:01 PM, said:

Within the next couple of weeks I am going to be getting one of the new (all steel) SIG USPSA 226s to test drive extensively for an article for Front Sight. I have played with one already and have some impressions, but I am looking to benefit from other people's experience--factory recoil spring is 15 lbs, I presume I should switch that out? To what weight, 11 or 12? Planning on getting a trigger job too, probably bevel the mag well as it seems really tight (and I'm told most SIGs are like that). Anything else I should know or do? Spare parts for those known to break frequently, etc?

FYI Master class, and I have been shooting Production Division exclusively for the last 4 years, with a Glock.

I have shot and carried on duty a SIG 226 since 1989. It was my everything pistol in USPSA when I first started shooting it in 1990. Even for Open class. I still have it although I shoot my All Around for Production now.

Since you have been shooting a Glock, you obviously feel the SIG needs work in several areas to be competitive. I also have a Glock and shooting the two is quite different. You will get tons of different replys and suggestions for modifications to the SIG but there are only a couple really necessary. And they are quite cheap- important since the SIG isn't actually your gun yet.

The USPSA SIG comes with a FO front sightWarren Tac rear so one of these issues is already taken care of.

Change the hammer spring to a lighter one. This really only lightens the trigger pull for the DA shot but it will let you get it off faster and smoother. Some of the springs that come in kits are too light and you will get occasional light hits. This is different with every gun so you may have to experiment. Luckily, springs are cheap.

Shoot heavier bullets. My SIGs like 147 gr loads around 875-900 fps. They shoot light bullets well too but the 147s are softer recoiling and helps the front sight stay on target.

I have changed recoil springs before and always ended up with the stock spring back in them.

For a Production gun, beveling the magwell isn't legal.

You can spend money on action jobs but the gun will smooth up with use on it's own. With the stock SRT trigger, the reset issue is already fixed. (Yes a Grayguns trigger would be the max but the stock will work fine). I also think that kind of taints your article if you have to spend a lot of money to get the gun the way you want it. I know we all eventually do it anyway but keeping the gun as close as stock as possible would be a better representation of what to expect from a SIG.

As for parts breaking, they will be rare. I have broken a recoil spring (gun still worked even with the spring in 2 pieces), a trigger reset spring, and the pin that held the block in the slide on my stamped slide 226. Those three items in 20 years and ??????? thousands of rounds.

Good luck on the article.

Craig

[IL-SIG]

I would like to suggest testing the model out of the box. Then, if you or others feel it needs modifications to make it more competitive, that can be described in the article. That way the reader knows what they would get for $1,250+

[DVC247]

Craig--or anyone--I was reading the rules, especially the new Production ones in the last issue of Front Sight, and near as I can tell bevelling the mag wall of a Production pistol IS LEGAL. Admittedly, I didn't think it was, but that sure seems to not be the case now. Check the rulebook and what was in the magazine before telling me I'm wrong, but please explain why.

[ROY NEAL]

Tarr,

You finally picked up the Rule Book and read it? Wow..for someone that routinely let's folks know that you haven't read the current rule book, this project must have hit a sensitive spot in that black space you call a soul. Now I am interested and look forward to "helping" you try out the new pistol. All in the interest of public safety and knowledge of course. Does Sig know all the evil testing routines that you plan on putting this pistol through? I mean you have been hanging out with Mr. Sweeney a lot lately.....you haven't got the urge to know if the gun will fire underwater like he did with the Wilson 1911? I have a range facility with a 100 yard "pool" to try it in........it won't be as famous as the Jake Jattras story where they tried it in a vegas swimming pool but you could actually get the event on film. It is standard issue to certain teams and we know a gunsmith who makes interesting modifications to Sigs for special folks who play in the water a lot. Better make sure it is the stainless steel version though. Just kidding. Can't wait to see the gun and put some rounds through it. It is a tough job to suffer through shooting a first class piece of equipment. I might even bring you a Diet Coke to show my gratitude. Maybe.......

Roy

[spd522]

DVC247, on May 28 2009, 08:35 AM, said:

Craig--or anyone--I was reading the rules, especially the new Production ones in the last issue of Front Sight, and near as I can tell bevelling the mag wall of a Production pistol IS LEGAL. Admittedly, I didn't think it was, but that sure seems to not be the case now. Check the rulebook and what was in the magazine before telling me I'm wrong, but please explain why.

I stand corrected. Internal Beveling is OK-Flaring is not.

Craig

[grayguns]

ROY NEAL, on Jun 2 2009, 06:54 PM, said:

Tarr, you haven't got the urge to know if the gun will fire underwater like he did with the Wilson 1911? I have a range facility with a 100 yard "pool" to try it in........it won't be as famous as the Jake Jattras story where they tried it in a vegas swimming pool but you could actually get the event on film.
Roy

It's an interesting coincidence that you brought up the Las Vegas pool-shooting incident in a thread that also mentions our current SIG work. As it happened, that was my 1911 that Jake borrowed to win his bet with Bob Brown. Yes, the thing did work underwater. And yes, the chlorine stripped the oil off the thing and rendered it a rusty mess by the time I woke up in someone else's hotel room the next day, hungover like death itself. -Bruce

[Mo Hepworth]

is the Blackwater legal for USPSA production division? IT has magwell grips. Apparently IPSC world says it is on the list...

[CocoBolo]

Golly Gee The gun is already expensive and it is advertised as a Production Class Gun. I stay test it as is and report its faults in the Front Sight and Sig should wake up and correct the design and live up the their Ads.

Changing the recoil to preference should be ok. Why not first test it with factory ammo. Then run your loads and change the recoil spring. Anything that has to be done by a smith Sig should do or change their add to say a gun you could build a production gun from.

If your going to spend $1500 to $2000 just go ahead a shoot open. I have two STI Open guns both bought used for under $1500. I had a CZ75 TS an out of the box limited gun for $1000.00 new. I happen to have a Sig 226 and have shot it in production and it runs pretty well, I prefer to use the Wife's CZ75 B, that yes had a trigger job. Cost of gun with all added parts and labor @ $600.00.

I thought the whole point of production was to cut the cost of shooitng in USPSA.

When I saw the first add for one I called around trying to find one, now I think I will wait till your report is done.