[CHA-LEE]

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=sJnD0IrD_3A

I would like to get a critique of this run. The stage is a 22 round field course where you start with a loaded gun on the barrel next to the starting position. The starting position is hands touching “X’s”. The wall you start on has two ports. Through the first port you can see two targets to the right one right in front of you then one to the left. But there is another target to the extreme left that is blocked by no shoots. The port on the right you can see the two targets on the right then two targets on the left, one being a head shot of the one blocked by the no shoots, but there is one target accessible from the first port that is blocked by a wall from the second port. So essentially you have to engage at least one “Blocked” target from each port and most of the rest can be engaged from either port. There is another target to the right of the shooting area, which I chose to engage while moving from port to port. Once you are done with the ports then you run down the COF and engage the lone target at the end and then two more targets to the left that can only be engaged when you are at the extreme end of the shooting area.

This was a really good run for me where everything clicked. I got all of my hits and only had one “D” hit and that was the last shot on the last target because I was shooting too fast and didn’t wait for an acceptable sight picture. I have watched the video many times and had had a couple of questions.

(1) When working the second port I am “ratcheting” between targets. I am not shuffling my feet but am obviously shooting, moving, shooting, moving and so on. Should I strive to shoot while moving to the next target, no ratcheting?

(2) My engagement order of the targets was a little different than most. A couple of the Master shooters chose to shoot through the first port first, then engage the two outside targets on the left second as they were walking backwards then cut into the second port. This forced them to swing back around to engage the target on the right as they were advancing to the end of the COF. My thought on this was to engage the two outside targets on the left first, then the one target that was blocked from the second port through the first port. Then as I was moving forward to the second port I engaged the target on the far right. This allowed me to get boogying to the end of the COF as soon as I was done engaging targets in the second port. Which way is better?

(3) Is it worth having an extreme left body bias and my arms outstretched far to the right touching the X’s. Verses being in a more comfortable arm position and staging my body to move to the gun in a more aggressive attacking motion?

[BritinUSA]

My 2 cents..

If you shoot the targets through the port first then you can shoot the two targets on the far left (behind the barrel) as you back up to the 2nd port.

Before you got to the 2nd port you engaged the target on the far right. A lot of the people on my squad shot that target as they moved around the corner, it was closer. The last target you shot through the port was a bit of a squeeze and I think that cost you some time.

When I shot it, I did the target on the far right as I moved around the corner then the target on the left (your last target through the port) as I moved down the range, no need to even stop it was wide open.

Foot movement looked very good, you were in the right position for every port and that looked quick.

1. Shooting on the move is usually quicker, though there are some exceptions.
2. I think the best way of shooting this stage is the method shown above, it allowed movement while shooting and there was no need to stop at the 2nd port for so long.
3. It's quicker to move your arms then it is to move your feet, when you move your feet you are moving your whole body mass. Your arms weigh less and move quicker.

This post has been edited by BritinUSA: 29 April 2009 - 08:25 PM

[TMC]

Well its tough to break down a stage when you're not actually on it but... an its hard to see what targets are available from where so its really difficult to comment on what you shot from where and to address would another position have been better. So this is what I would have done different for the tiny bit of time it could have saved.

I would not have shot the target on the right until I moved that direction. When you shot the stage you looked at it twice, once when you shot it and again when you ran down to the end of the stage. Also would have kept my gun up as I ran down to the end of the stage shooting the target in front of me on the way so when I got there my attention could be on getting around that corner for the remaning targets. You had your gun low until you got there and then brought it up to shoot the target in front of you.

As for stretching for the X's on the start, I have found that when you get too far over and out of balance your draw will suffer. I'd rather be conforatble and get a good draw while moving slightly to shoot.

My .02

[whatmeworry]

A couple of obvious things. Why did you go elbows deep into both ports? It takes time to push your arms into the ports and time to pull your arms out to move on. Look at yoursrlf when you shot the target in the corner on the right. Then you have to pull the gun back back to go elbows deep into the second port and then of course pulling your arms out to move to the corner and turn left. When you turned the corner you could have taken the target straight ahead in the back while on the move and then had the gun up and toword the left as you cleared the end of the vision barrier to shoot the last two targets.
CYa,
Pat

[CHA-LEE]

BritinUSA> Thanks for the reply. I considered your strategy while breaking down the stage and concluded that it would be faster to be done with the shooting by the end of the second port so I could focus on hauling ass down to the end of the COF. Engaging the targets on the left, behind the barrel, first allowed me more time to engage the far right target as I was moving from the first port to the second port. If I was moving backwards engaging the far left targets between ports, I would have been forced to engage the far right target as I was exiting the second port and before I could haul ass down to the end of the COF. I know for me, any time I am engaging targets or performing a reload I run a lot slower than if I am doing nothing but running. So for me, mixing in shooting with the movement to the end of the COF would be slower.

On this run I did it in 11.4 seconds. This was faster than anyone else in the match by almost half a second. So I had to be doing something right.

[CHA-LEE]

TMC> I agree with you that I should have had the gun up and engaged the target facing me at the end of the COF before I came to a stop. That is a hard one for me as I know that if I try to engage the target early I will run a lot slower. At a minimum I could have been engaging the target as I was putting on the breaks to slow down for the shooting position. As I did it I came to a stop then shot the target, which isn’t the fastest way to do it.

[CHA-LEE]

Whatmeworry> I agree that my arms were too far into the ports. I can see how I made that happen on the first port as I tried to setup a “Universal” foot position that would somewhat work for both the outside targets on the left and the single target through the port. The second port is really bad because I was moving too close to the wall. I should have been further back from the wall than I was, but once you are in the shooting position you have to make due with what you have at the time. While I shot the stage I did notice, and was a little surprised, that I had to pull the gun back a long ways to clear the wall before getting into the port.

[CHA-LEE]

Thanks everyone for your replies, keep them coming if you see more that can be improved upon!!!

[BritinUSA]

CHA-LEE, on Apr 30 2009, 10:02 AM, said:

... On this run I did it in 11.4 seconds. This was faster than anyone else in the match by almost half a second. So I had to be doing something right.

That's kind of cool ! The way you shot it seems counter-intuitive but if your time was that good then maybe this is one of those 'exceptions to the rule' stages. I'll watch the video again tonight, do you have any other videos of people on your squad shooting this stage the other way ?

[CHA-LEE]

BritinUSA> Sorry, I don't have any footage of someone shooting it the way you discribed. I do know that the two Masters on my squad shot it your way, but ended up with a slower time.

[No Evil]

!

This post has been edited by No Evil: 30 April 2009 - 11:43 AM

[bkeeler]

CHA-LEE, on Apr 30 2009, 09:02 AM, said:

On this run I did it in 11.4 seconds. This was faster than anyone else in the match by almost half a second. So I had to be doing something right.

If you shot it a half second faster,did you win that stage?

If you did not win the stage then you need to look at your points.

If you did win the stage then I would not analyze this stage too much.

You looked pretty good to me from what I can see on the video.


BK

[CHA-LEE]

bkeeler> Unfortunately this video is my second run through the stage just for fun. The first go around during the match, I accidentally flipped my safety back on after the first shot and then took an extra shot forcing me to make an unplanned mag change that turned into a complete train wreck. The first time I shot the stage I engaged all of the targets in the same order and when I am shooting and moving, its at the same pace as the second run. But obviously due to the safety issue and botched reload my stage time was a lot slower. I am just glad that the squad let me reshoot the stage a second time for fun so I could see my stage plan work the way I imagined it would. I didn't want to bring up the actual stage time because its really not fair to compare the time of a second run through the stage to the first time through of others. I am sure that if everyone had the chance to shoot the stage a second time they could do better or change their strategy to do better. So its never an Apples to Apples comparison when comparing stage times the second time through to others that only shot it once. I realize that and that was not my intent in posting up the video. My intent was to seek insight on how I could do the run better than I did. There are always better ways of doing things and even though this was a Good Solid run on my part, it can always be done better. I try not to get wrapped around the axel on how well/poor I finish against others at local club matches because I am really not shooting against others, I am shooting against myself. So this is an effort to find ways to raise my game against myself.

[uscbigdawg]

All in all, not bad.

Left Port: I wouldn't have the 2 targets on the left until I was done with the port. Don't drop the gun down.

Right Port: About your position, basically, ports are a box. So, entering in to a port is like entering a box. A solid placement with your left foot to get the body turning in the overall direction of the port would have corrected the 'wratcheting'. I also would have picked up the open target on the right as you moved down the course.

Back section: Definitely would have shot that back target on the move and use it to slow me down for the 2 on the left.

If it felt good, roll with it. Goin' for it with no reload! That's always good.

Rich

This post has been edited by uscbigdawg: 30 April 2009 - 12:46 PM

[CHA-LEE]

uscbigdawg> Its funny that you mention going for it with no reload. There were a couple of the guys on my squad that thought doing that was too risky. The way I see it if you have the patience to call your shots well, all you need is the minimum round count for the stage. That and it also didn’t make sense to perform a reload just to get a warm and fuzzy feeling about having extra rounds in the gun. Not at the cost of taking extra time to perform the reload when it isn’t needed. I try to keep it simple, such as “You need 22 rounds to complete the course and you have 22 rounds in the gun, so take the time to call every shot good”.

[wide45]

Calling the shots takes no time, and has nothing to do with making the hits.

[CHA-LEE]

wide45> Can you elaborate on that? Maybe I am explaining it wrong, what I mean is that I am waiting that extra couple hundredths of a second for an acceptable sight picture for a given shot. Some shots need more of a refined sight picture than others in order to call them correctly as a hit or a miss. Otherwise I could just point shoot the targets and assume that the hits will be there based on the quality of my gun being indexed on the target.

[wide45]

Quote

I am waiting that extra couple hundredths of a second for an acceptable sight picture for a given shot.

Why would you shoot without an acceptable sight picture for a given shot?

If your vision is good enough to put the shot on the target, it's good enough to call where it went in relation to the target. The target is not necessarily the whole cardboard.

Quote

Otherwise I could just point shoot the targets and assume that the hits will be there based on the quality of my gun being indexed on the target.

Can you really assume they will be there? If you know where, then you are calling the shot.

This post has been edited by wide45: 02 May 2009 - 01:58 PM

[CHA-LEE]

wide45> I know that some times I get impatient and am not waiting for an acceptable sight picture before breaking the shot. Its easy to get stuck in the rut of shooting using a cadence regardless of sight picture seen.

[wide45]

It isn't like I don't know about that.