[gunut]

for shooting steel is one better ? using 5" 1911 and reload . I know the pressure will be lower in 38s . Thanks

[yoshidaex]

i guess it will depend on the velocity you are trying to achieve. a 9mm loaded to a 125 pf is pretty soft. i'm sure the 38s will feel soft also but having to look for your spent cases will be a pain. if you go with 9, you'll pick up more than you shot

[G-ManBart]

gunut, on Apr 29 2009, 06:32 PM, said:

for shooting steel is one better ? using 5" 1911 and reload . I know the pressure will be lower in 38s . Thanks

1911's in Super tend to be one of the most reliable combinations going. The earliest versions which led to the 1911 were actually designed around the .38acp which is the same length as Super. 1911's in 9mm can be a little picky about overall length and magazines (often using spacers), but it's not a huge problem at all...just something to be aware of.

Pressure for the same velocity with the same bullet will actually be very close between the two...same bore size, same powder, same bullet...pressure won't be different enough to matter.

Super cases are going to cost more as you can't buy them once-fired from places like the Brassman. Other than the initial outlay for brass the costs will be similar..... it may take a couple of tenths more powder to get the same velocity compared with the 9 but that's about it.

The really nice thing about 9 besides used brass availability is that assuming things go back to normal (or close) you can walk into most sporting goods places/gun shops and buy decent 9mm without much trouble which isn't the case for Super. R,

[fourtrax]

+1 G-Man. I would go with the 9 for exactly what G-ManBart says above. It will be a lot cheaper in the long run no matter what happens with the current pricing. Brass is plentiful and if you are deligent you can still get once fired 9mm for 20 bucks a thousand, no more than 30 if your desparate. Plus, what do you know, there it is on the ground for free at the range.

[gunut]

Thanks I was really thinking 38 but your points on 9 are making me think some more . Has anyone tried the new 9mm 10 rnd mags ?

This post has been edited by gunut: 29 April 2009 - 08:48 PM

[G-ManBart]

gunut, on Apr 29 2009, 09:47 PM, said:

Thanks I was really thinking 38 but your points on 9 are making me think some more . Has anyone tried the new 9mm 10 rnd mags ?

I'll point out that I prefer Super to 9mm, but I already have a whole bunch of cases, single stack Super mags, and loads worked up for it, so that would probably sway me, but 9mm does have it's strong points....tried to be as impartial as possible. Anything I can do with a 9 in a 1911 I can do with a Super. Either one loaded for steel is going to be a lot of fun to shoot! R,

[KWD]

Not to hijack this thread but while were talking about a 1911 dedicated to steel(me personally a 9mm) what length barrel would you choose 5"or 6". This is a iron sighted gun.

This post has been edited by KWD: 30 April 2009 - 10:30 AM

[jodus]

ive been trying to accumulate some 38 super brass and in 4 months ive got maybe 20 cases, not very popular around here

[JoeGlocker]

[ 9 is so much easier on the wallet!

[UW Mitch]

Another chime in on the 9mm front. So much easier to shoot it a lot!

~Mitch

[HSMITH]

No way would I shoot an iron sighted 5" gun if a 6" gun was legal, and especially so on steel.

9mm isn't too hard to get running on an iron sight gun without a scope in the way of ejection.

[G-ManBart]

HSMITH, on Jun 4 2009, 09:48 PM, said:

No way would I shoot an iron sighted 5" gun if a 6" gun was legal, and especially so on steel.

+1
I can't see going with a 5" gun over 6" now that you can get them to weigh about the same.

On a different note, the cost difference between the two really often winds up to be zero for many folks. If you happen to have a source for once-fired brass from a local police unit that will change things, but if you're buying brass it's not so clear cut. Super brass isn't available once-fired very often, but it usually lasts longer than 9 if you're reloading it so you'll get more mileage out of it. If you're shooting and leaving it, the 9 will be cheaper, but that's the only situation where it's a big difference.

[dleat]

I also say 9mm for reasons already presented. I have a 6" Caspian 9mm single stack and use the 10 rd. Wilson mags. The mags must be seated firmly on reloads if loaded to capacity. I have had no problems that could be attributed to these mags since I got them. About 500 rds per mag so far.

[chirpy]

I have a super that I originally had made into a ss race gun and then converted back to standard 5" (it's old but not many rounds thru it and I still have once fired brass I started with!). I use it in IDPA ESP occasionally. The only advantage to .38s is the 10 round mags work period (in my gun)! Brass is easy to find (Starline) but expensive!!!!! Used brass is almost non-existent. I have no experience with 9mm 10 rounders. Do a search because I believe there has been discussion on them. If I were doing it now I would go with a 9 if the mags worked just because of component costs.

FWIW

Richard

[Al Capizzo]

I'm shooting a single stack in super for steel, and while the initial cost for brass is higher than 9mm, the cases last FOREVER with these mild, low pressure loads. Also, if shooting steel challenge type events, you're standing in one spot so recovering your brass isn't a big issue.
I bought a super because I'm already set up to load for it, but if I was starting from scratch I'd probably go with a 9mm. They're just everywhere.

[Ron Ankeny]

I had a 38 Super single stack on a Caspian race ready frame for steel. Cool gun. I went 38 Super because I already shoot open. If I were in the market for a single stack steel gun I would go 38 Super Comp all the way. I have thousands of 38 Super Comp cases that have 10 loadings on them at 170-175 PF that I retired just because they were getting old. I know they would go many more loadings at minor PF. New brass loaded to minor would go until the reloading dies work hardened the brass and the mouths split. That's a lot of loadings.

Having said all of that, I suppose if I started from scratch I would consider 9mm. I do know some 9mm single stacks can be somewhat finicky until the kinks are ironed out.

[poke_53]

9mm cheaper to reload and like said earlier 9mm brass is everywhere.

[G-ManBart]

poke_53, on Jun 10 2009, 07:26 PM, said:

9mm cheaper to reload and like said earlier 9mm brass is everywhere.

How is it cheaper to reload? Bullets, primers and powder cost the same. If you have to buy brass (even used) there's very little difference. Super/SC brass lasts a long time and 9mm brass is pretty well used up after a handful or reloads. Once fired 9 from Brassman is $56 and new Starline Super is $125. You'll get more than twice as many uses out of the Super easily....that's pretty much a wash.

The only real exception is if you can get the 9 for free, but that's dried up for lots of the people that used to rely on it. I can barely get a couple of thousand 9 a year (all I really need) and it used to be all I could carry. R,

[ihocky2]

This comes in more about the gun itself, but take into consideration future shooting. If you are starting with steel, like I did, you will find yourself in the future moving into USPSA, IPSC, or IDPA. Depending on the gun you get, you may need to shoot in a class that you don't want to.

That being said, I've shot 38 Super in a non-compensated gun and noticed a significant bit more muzzle flip over my 9mm 1911. It was not bad recoil, but enough to take a few tenths off my overall time because of longer target acquisition. With a compensator, the 38 Super was definitely nicer, but if I converted my 1911 over with a compensator I have to shoot Limited with a single stack. Not even close to competetive.

[wkj4567]

gunut, on Apr 29 2009, 11:47 PM, said:

Thanks I was really thinking 38 but your points on 9 are making me think some more . Has anyone tried the new 9mm 10 rnd mags ?

I use the Tripp Research 10 round 9mm mags. They work great.

[ihocky2]

I should have included before, I am running the Wilson Combat 10rnd mags and have no problems with them at all.

[ap38]

G-ManBart, on Jun 11 2009, 01:08 PM, said:

poke_53, on Jun 10 2009, 07:26 PM, said:

9mm cheaper to reload and like said earlier 9mm brass is everywhere.

How is it cheaper to reload? Bullets, primers and powder cost the same. If you have to buy brass (even used) there's very little difference. Super/SC brass lasts a long time and 9mm brass is pretty well used up after a handful or reloads. Once fired 9 from Brassman is $56 and new Starline Super is $125. You'll get more than twice as many uses out of the Super easily....that's pretty much a wash.

The only real exception is if you can get the 9 for free, but that's dried up for lots of the people that used to rely on it. I can barely get a couple of thousand 9 a year (all I really need) and it used to be all I could carry. R,

It's only the same if you can recover your cases. Even at local matches where brass is picked up, I never get that many back. Too busy RO'ing and scoring etc.

[norbs007]

I really won't say it's cheaper. I load both rounds and the 9mm brass gets left behind while the 38SC are used until lost; and I lose about 10% every match. I use 8.1gr of 3N37 for the 9mm and 10.1gr of 3N38 for the 38SC; so 2gr difference on powder and everything else is the same. The only big difference for me is picking up brass. What I like about 38SC is I use only Starline brass and it loads pretty consistent compared to the mix headstamps of the 9mm. The only time I find 9mm cheap is when I find them free at the range after an LE session.

[BigH]

Fellas, I am somewhat of a newbie so my opinion might not count as much as the more experienced shooters on this site. I currently shoot a cz 75 sp-01 in 9mm for steel. No issues-great pistol. A buddy of mine has been letting me practice with his STI Edge in Super 38 and I am in love with this caliber. In my opinion the recoil is much softer and is more of a push as opposed to a snap. Unfortunately I do not have any details on how he reloads but they feel soft and are a pleasure to shoot. I am sure it does not hurt that that STI Edge is a $1750 competition pistol. I hope this helps


By the way I looked at Midways prices for Brass:

Starline 9mm per 1000----$141
Starline .38 Super pr 1000----$141

.38 Super bullets are a bit more but not substantial

I am told that .38 Super uses small "rifle' primers not pistol. Is this true?

[BSeevers]

BigH, on Jul 2 2009, 09:57 AM, said:

Fellas, I am somewhat of a newbie so my opinion might not count as much as the more experienced shooters on this site. I currently shoot a cz 75 sp-01 in 9mm for steel. No issues-great pistol. A buddy of mine has been letting me practice with his STI Edge in Super 38 and I am in love with this caliber. In my opinion the recoil is much softer and is more of a push as opposed to a snap. Unfortunately I do not have any details on how he reloads but they feel soft and are a pleasure to shoot. I am sure it does not hurt that that STI Edge is a $1750 competition pistol. I hope this helps


By the way I looked at Midways prices for Brass:

Starline 9mm per 1000----$141
Starline .38 Super pr 1000----$141

.38 Super bullets are a bit more but not substantial

I am told that .38 Super uses small "rifle' primers not pistol. Is this true?

Small rifle primers with major USPSA loads. Some still use pistol primers.

Comparing retail brass prices isn't correct. Most 9mm shooters use once fired brass. That said I only use 38 Super cause it works and works with almost any powder and bullet combo I want. I pick up my brass and reuse it so I think its a pretty good value especially since free 9mm brass is way way harder to get than it used to be. I used to envy those 9mm guys leaving brass lay even at a practice. Now they pay for their brass.

As said most of us use 9mm bullets not "38 Super bullets" so our 38Super bullets are priced exactly the same. Our barrels are .355 9mm too.

I don't think I would compare a 1911 lockup with unknown PF to a CZ lockup and say its better.
Hint: Its is but do an apples to apples.