[boz1911]

I used to think our classification system worked well, but now I'm not so sure.
I dryfire on on pretty regular basis as in daily. These skills have made my classifier skills quite good, to the the point I'm over 80% and a boomer away from "M". Since most of the classifiers are stand and shoot they do not relate to the field courses we actually shoot. The results are that in major matches I'm shooting a class below my ranking.

I'm not going for broke on classifiers and do not reshoot any so it's not my intent to "grandbag".

I am not fleet of foot and I know that I never will be, so should I not worry about it or can someone give me a clue as to what I can do...

[ChuckS]

Well,

If your stand and shoot skills are good, then work on your non-stand and shoot skills . You have some very good shooters in your area. Go get some one-on-one training to smooth out the non-shooting part of your game. Some of the best shooters are not exactly track stars so focusing on getting more efficient in your stage planning and execution is the way to go.

good luck!
Chuck

[rvb]

In your daily dryfire are you practicing field-course skills or are you just practicing stand-n-shoot skills?

In your dryfire, you can practice moving between positions, entering positions with vision barriers and walls, reloading between positions, shooting on the move, etc. etc

If you are not already, try to keep your dryfire routine as diverse as the shooting we do. Work up a sweat running between positions. Work on what aspect needs the most improvement... so instead of being static in your dryfire, work on movement drills.

Doing this I've always found my match % at major matches to align suprisingly close to my classification %.

-rvb

[boz1911]

rvb, on Apr 28 2009, 06:20 AM, said:

In your daily dryfire are you practicing field-course skills or are you just practicing stand-n-shoot skills? In your dryfire, you can practice moving between positions, entering positions with vision barriers and walls, reloading between positions, shooting on the move, etc. etc If you are not already, try to keep your dryfire routine as diverse as the shooting we do. Work up a sweat running between positions. Work on what aspect needs the most improvement... so instead of being static in your dryfire, work on movement drills. Doing this I've always found my match % at major matches to align suprisingly close to my classification %. -rvb

Yes, I do practice some movement during dryfire, albeit somewhat limited in my garage. The biggest issue is foot speed, even in school, playing football, they timed my 40 yard sprints with a sun dial. I have recently added shooting wide open(slow for most people) to my livefire practice. I also decided that all my livefire practice will be with movement. Maybe some of this will help.

[danscrapbags]

I suck at stand and shoot (classifiers) and do quite well on feild courses. Someday I will put it all together, it's kind of like when I used to golf my long game was great but I couldn't put.

[h2osport]

I practice live fire with a group every wednesday night. We hardly ever have 1 static shooting position. We always incorporate movement into the practice. I dryfire mostly static with a little movement. I think adding movement to your live fire all the time will help out.

[rvb]

boz1911, on Apr 28 2009, 08:34 AM, said:

The biggest issue is foot speed...

I'm no athlete by any means either, but I don't think foot speed is that big an issue in this game (though it doesn't hurt, and the more I move up the more I think it's becomming important... hence now part of my training and weight-loss goals).

The real time killer isn't usually the running, it's the time it takes to set up on the target. Imagine a difficult target leaning hard around a barricade/wall after running 5 yds to the fault line.... then getting back out of that position quickly... those are the kinds of things you can dryfire and you don't need a lot of room to do it. Those are the kinds of things that eat up seconds on the clock.

-rvb

[bkeeler]

rvb, on Apr 28 2009, 07:15 AM, said:

boz1911, on Apr 28 2009, 08:34 AM, said:

The biggest issue is foot speed...

I'm no athlete by any means either, but I don't think foot speed is that big an issue in this game (though it doesn't hurt, and the more I move up the more I think it's becomming important... hence now part of my training and weight-loss goals).

The real time killer isn't usually the running, it's the time it takes to set up on the target. Imagine a difficult target leaning hard around a barricade/wall after running 5 yds to the fault line.... then getting back out of that position quickly... those are the kinds of things you can dryfire and you don't need a lot of room to do it. Those are the kinds of things that eat up seconds on the clock.

-rvb

........"It is not how fast you get there it is how fast you get there ready to shoot"....... RL or something like that.




BK

[bbbean]

The two biggest differences I see between me and the better shooters are confidence and the time I spend just looking for and lining up my sights. They're taking quick shots and moving on while I'm still moving closer and getting aligned.

This post has been edited by bbbean: 28 April 2009 - 09:19 AM

[boz1911]

bkeeler, on Apr 28 2009, 07:23 AM, said:

rvb, on Apr 28 2009, 07:15 AM, said:

boz1911, on Apr 28 2009, 08:34 AM, said:

The biggest issue is foot speed...

I'm no athlete by any means either, but I don't think foot speed is that big an issue in this game <font color="#808080">(though it doesn't hurt, and the more I move up the more I think it's becomming important... hence now part of my training and weight-loss goals)</font>. The real time killer isn't usually the running, it's the time it takes to set up on the target. Imagine a difficult target leaning hard around a barricade/wall after running 5 yds to the fault line.... then getting back out of that position quickly... those are the kinds of things you can dryfire and you don't need a lot of room to do it. Those are the kinds of things that eat up seconds on the clock. -rvb

........&amp;quot;It is not how fast you get there it is how fast you get there ready to shoot&amp;quot;....... RL or something like that. BK

<br /><br />I agree will all that. Most of our monthly matches don't incorporate long runs, but a lot of the majors around here seem to have a few courses where longer runs (with nothing to do) are included. Hell I remember one at South Carolina a few years ago that had a twenty yard run through loose sand. People were taking lunch breaks waiting for me to finish.......

This post has been edited by boz1911: 28 April 2009 - 08:45 AM

[badassmcgraff]

I don't think it's actually moving speed but rather taking out the unnecessary steps. Every GM I've talked to always has different advice but they always agree on one thing "it's not shooting fast that gets you faster it's doing everything else while your not shooting that gets you faster" When I watch a GM shoot they don't have any movement but what is absolutely necessary. That's why they always look like they aren't even moving until the end of the stages and they're time is half of what mine is.

[JThompson]

There is a rather large thread on this... perhaps several.

http://www.brianenos...cative+of+skill

The USPSA is moving to change the system in that there are no special exemptions for new classifiers being considered, so we should have some more indicative of what we really do. They will never be like a a large COF though as duplication from match to match would be impossible. What you will see is more and more short course type of classifiers. I applaud them for making the effort.

This post has been edited by JThompson: 28 April 2009 - 07:02 AM

[LPatterson]

Hopefully you mean "Medium to Long" courses of fire as a "Short" course is only 8 rounds & 2 positions. We are shooting CM 99-45 this weekend (weather allowing) which at 18 rounds classifies it as a "Long" course. Also included is CM 03-03 which does clasify as a "Medium" course. I too would like to see more movement though I am shooting a revo this year.

[JThompson]

LPatterson, on Apr 28 2009, 09:15 AM, said:

Hopefully you mean "Medium to Long" courses of fire as a "Short" course is only 8 rounds & 2 positions. We are shooting CM 99-45 this weekend (weather allowing) which at 18 rounds classifies it as a "Long" course. Also included is CM 03-03 which does clasify as a "Medium" course. I too would like to see more movement though I am shooting a revo this year.

Thanks Patty.... what I mean is short in that it would be very unlikely to see a "long course" you will see them short and medium, but with movement and a shooter area rather than all the small box, non moving, stuff we have now.

This post has been edited by JThompson: 28 April 2009 - 08:21 AM

[gmantwo]

I would like to see them take out the requirement to have so many GM's in a match before the entire match is considered a classifier. I think any match, level II or above, should count as a classifier in it's entirety. I can put together good classifiers, and a stage or two in a match, but overall can't get through a complete match without wasting a stage or two. Area 6 last year I finished 6th overall in stage 1, Field of Steel, out of nearly 300 shooters, but didn't win my class© because I blew stage 10.(actually had a case blowout I couldn't clear). In the Indiana SS/PROD I finished 13th in the classifier stage and didn't win my production class of D. So I'd like to see something done with the classifier system to more closely reflect the complete game of what we do.

[VegasOPM]

I've made my peace with the current system. It is flawed, but it works out in the end. There are sandbaggers and grandbaggers and everything in between. The only issue that I have is with serious sandbaggers in major matches just looking to raid the prize table. But there is plenty of stuff left up there by the GM that finishes at 75% in the overall standings.

My only request is that El Prez is taken off the classifier list. There are way too many "EL Prez GMs" out there to make it a viable stage anymore. Of course, even that logic is flawed... if someone spends all their time practicing the El Prez, they aren't going to do as well on the field courses, are they?

This post has been edited by VegasOPM: 28 April 2009 - 09:47 AM

[lugnut]

VegasOPM, on Apr 28 2009, 12:47 PM, said:

I've made my peace with the current system. It is flawed, but it works out in the end. There are sandbaggers and grandbaggers and everything in between.

I'm trying to as well. I just find it tedious to get classified but I'm going to a classifier match that should help me. The letters mean something.. but at the end of the day I just want to bear as many in my division as possible... that's my real goal. Thing is when you look at classifications of competitors is sometimes means little. For example- some people that are "U" in one division but could be A, B, etc in another division. Some folks that have kicked ass that were classfied as "U" because they didn't pay their member ship.

[Coach]

VegasOPM, on Apr 28 2009, 10:47 AM, said:

I've made my peace with the current system. It is flawed, but it works out in the end. There are sandbaggers and grandbaggers and everything in between. The only issue that I have is with serious sandbaggers in major matches just looking to raid the prize table. But there is plenty of stuff left up there by the GM that finishes at 75% in the overall standings.

My only request is that El Prez is taken off the classifier list. There are way too many "EL Prez GMs" out there to make it a viable stage anymore. Of course, even that logic is flawed... if someone spends all their time practicing the El Prez, they aren't going to do as well on the field courses, are they?

It is a classic and I think it should stay. There is a lot of gun handling skills wrapped up in that one stand and shoot stage. You only get to count it once per year. No one is a GM because of this stage alone.

[JThompson]

I love the El Prez... I think that one needs to stay for all time.

[kgunz11]

Jim, this sounds just like a conversation we recently had in PM doesn't it.

Like Boz, I don't have the foot speed, but I CAN stand and shoot. Gun handling and manipulation skills are there, but adding it to the longer field courses has been a new venture. I have recently taught myself that I CAN move as well, but my points suffered. In my most recent match, I tried an even balance of speed and accuracy and I was able to pull off the Division win against some tough local competition. I think I am starting to figure things out. My next conquest is going to be in transitions and splits. I have to call the shots, leave the target and get on to the next one.

[ong45]

boz1911, on Apr 28 2009, 03:00 AM, said:

I dryfire on on pretty regular basis as in daily. These skills have made my classifier skills quite good, to the the point I'm over 80% and a boomer away from "M". Since most of the classifiers are stand and shoot they do not relate to the field courses we actually shoot. The results are that in major matches I'm shooting a class below my ranking.

A field course is nothing more than a bunch of speed shoots

[Ben Stoeger]

I think the classifier system has a bunch of problems, but still ends up putting people pretty much where they belong. I don't see what the fuss is about.

[JThompson]

Ben Stoeger, on Apr 29 2009, 06:55 PM, said:

I think the classifier system has a bunch of problems, but still ends up putting people pretty much where they belong. I don't see what the fuss is about.

Well, for one, it gives us people who like to grumble, something to grumble about.

This post has been edited by JThompson: 29 April 2009 - 05:04 PM

[Flexmoney]

I've read so many of these threads over the years.


Often, it's a case of I didn't do as good as I wanted, so something must be wrong. Well, I hold this classification...so the classification system must be the problem..


Yeeeeeeahhhhh. That's the ticket!

[Ben Stoeger]

Flexmoney, on Apr 29 2009, 07:18 PM, said:

Often, it's a case of I didn't do as good as I wanted, so something must be wrong. Well, I hold this classification...so the classification system must be the problem..

Jeez... thats a kick in the nuts to a few people.