[hitman_usmc]

Ok, I did a search and didn't find very much about how people are setting up their airsoft area so that BB's aren't all over the place. I see Manny sells netted pellet traps. Has anyone used these? Do they work? Is there something better?

[The_Vigilante]

I remember seeing something like what you are looking for on You-Tube. Go there and do a search on AirSoft and IDPA/USPSA.

hitman_usmc, on Apr 15 2009, 03:44 PM, said:

Ok, I did a search and didn't find very much about how people are setting up their airsoft area so that BB's aren't all over the place. I see Manny sells netted pellet traps. Has anyone used these? Do they work? Is there something better?

[g.willikers]

Just use cardboard boxes, of suitable size, filled with scrunched up newspaper.
Paste a paper target to one of the sides and enjoy.
If the bbs tend to bounce off the cardboard, cut out a section and paste the paper target over the hole.

[kevin c]

hitman_usmc, on Apr 15 2009, 02:44 PM, said:

Ok, I did a search and didn't find very much about how people are setting up their airsoft area so that BB's aren't all over the place. I see Manny sells netted pellet traps. Has anyone used these? Do they work? Is there something better?

Yes! The pellet traps work great! I have three of them that I got from Manny and will sell you all of them at cost!

All of the above is true, but the traps he has are really only designed for paper targets about 6" square, or the little plastic knockdown targets that come with the traps.

Mine are retired and replaced by cardboard boxes of varying sizes that will tak 1/2 to 1/3 sized metric and classic targets. The boxes are big enough to allow me to miss on occasion .

eta: Oh, and I cut out the side of the box and hang a towel inside.

This post has been edited by kevin c: 15 April 2009 - 06:18 PM

[NoSteel]

I hang a large blanket behind the paper targets I use when indoors. Wrapping the lower end of the blanket around a dowl and tying to the ceiling allows the blanket to hang in a J shape which creats a trough to catch the BB's. Pretty simple set up...

[kamikaze1a]

I saw and shot at a sticky target once. Like those kid spider w/leash things that are soft rubber but sticky. The kids fling them against the ceiling and it sticks for a few seconds before rebounding to them. The pellets stick to the target and slowly roll down the target and collects in a trough...

[kevin c]

I've seen video of those. They're cute, is as much as I can say from looking at the vid, by which I mean they're pretty doggone small, and not in any configuration close to a IPSC target save a plate.

[Shawn Knight]

I have a large duffel bag hanging in the closet that I shoot into. The duffle catches and directs the BBs to the bottom of the bag and collects them for me. I can hang a target in front of the bag and as long a I am using the sights I hit the bag everytime. No mess!

If I have a mess I am not using the sights correctly!

[Anon]

Use biodegradeable BBs. Sweep up what you see, the rest will turn to dust, eventually.

For my targets, I like to use cereal boxes. I use spray-adhesive (buy it cheap at dollar-stores), and slap on a printed target.

A 1/3 scale target fits pretty well on a letter-size piece of paper.

The cereal boxes will catch a lot of the BBs.

[Flatland Shooter]

I use several flat pack boxes from the post office. These are the ones that are roughly 9" x 11" x 2" thick. I hang an ordinary washcloth inside the box to stop the pellets and seal the box lid over a wire coat hanger.

Paper IPSC targets printed from the computer are taped to the box and the box is hung where needed by the hanger.

After both sides are shot to the point they will not hold the paper target, I salvage the pellets, wash cloth and clothes hanger and start all over again.

A half dozen targets with a total investment of six washcloths (at least until the little lady notices they are missing).

Bill

[shoot]

+1 on sticky targets indoors but some ammo works better than others. Darn bio's that I use outside don't stick well at all on sticky targets.

Outside the biodegradable are great.

Airsoft steel challenge I like paint can lids painted white when out doors where I use the bio's. With sticky targets it helps keep the lions share of 23gr std BB'sstick 99%.

Hitting another bb will send fragments around the room though.

It took a while to figure the bio's don't stick worth a hoot on sticky targets. Now I can set up course of fire and leave a minimal mess.

What you gain competitively is arguable. I think it helps some things and hurts others. Dry fire is funner with a little trigger time thrown in.

[rupie]

shoot, on Apr 22 2009, 11:50 AM, said:

+1 on sticky targets indoors but some ammo works better than others. Darn bio's that I use outside don't stick well at all on sticky targets.

Outside the biodegradable are great.

Airsoft steel challenge I like paint can lids painted white when out doors where I use the bio's. With sticky targets it helps keep the lions share of 23gr std BB'sstick 99%.

Hitting another bb will send fragments around the room though.

It took a while to figure the bio's don't stick worth a hoot on sticky targets. Now I can set up course of fire and leave a minimal mess.

What you gain competitively is arguable. I think it helps some things and hurts others. Dry fire is funner with a little trigger time thrown in.

What do you think it hurts skill wise? In other words what are the draw backs to airsoft training?

This post has been edited by rupie: 01 May 2009 - 09:46 PM

[Gdaym8]

I am also curious what some of the drawbacks to airsoft training. I have modified my airsoft to be identical to my actual IPSC gun. I can shoot at home any time of day, and day of the week. I think they are invaluable. In my opinion, they are a great tool.

[kevin c]

1. No recoil management possible. Sight tracking/recovery will be off.

2. The tendency to track light colored pellets visually instead of watching the sights rise off the POA (not that they rise the way your match gun would, anyway - see the above). Use light colored targets with light colored pellets, or dark pellets otherwise.

3. Limited accuracy, at least for the AirSoft I have. That can be good or bad (gotta really get the precise sight picture on the POA right smack in the middle of the target - good for accuracy, but might throw you off as far as getting used to the less precise "acceptable" sight picture that you'd get w/ your match gun).

4. No matter what, 15 feet with a 1/3 sized target is not the same as the full sized target at 15 yards. Eye focus adjustments are different, and, unless the target is at eye level, any movement towards or away from the target will not match what happens to the relative angle of the target to your eyes/gun in "real life".

All that being said, it's still very useful, and is a lot less boring than dry fire.

[Duane Thomas]

The bullet traps with the teeny paper targets work - the paper stops the pellets from popping back out of the trap when they rebound off the netting. Take one of the targets that came with the trap to Kinko's or something and run it off, you've got usable targets for very little cash outlay.

The plastic target arrays are useless as the targets crack in short order after they get pounded by pellets for awhile.

My favorite Airsoft targets are actually the little aluminum mini-poppers for reactive target practice.

[kevin c]

Duane Thomas, on Jul 9 2009, 10:25 AM, said:

...My favorite Airsoft targets are actually the little aluminum mini-poppers for reactive target practice...

'cept that I'm really cheap, Duane. I reuse my pellets, at lease the ones I catch in soft backed traps. The pellets coming off the metal targets get deformed. It's okay if they're busted into pieces, but when they get mixed into the other pellets, the deformed ones can jam up an airsoft but good.

It's fun doing "steel" airsoft, but all pellets used that day go straight to the trash (I practice indoors).

BTW, I've seen aluminum airsofts targets get impressively dented up by pellets. Mine are steel, painted white the way our match steel is done. The paint does chip after a while, but one can of spray paint goes a long way for touch up.

[Duane Thomas]

Quote

1. No recoil management possible. Sight tracking/recovery will be off.

Not in my experience.

No offense - and I mean that sincerely - but whenever I hear someone list "little recoil" as a point against Airsofts, I cannot help but feel they don't really understand that this is one of the great advantages of this piece of equipment. I'll just do a cut-'n'-paste here of something I wrote in a different thread:

"Actually the fact that there is very little recoil and muzzle flip with an Airsoft is one of its major virtues. For one thing, it's very hard, if you do all or most of your practice with live ammo, for even hardened shooters to not develop at least a bit of flinch. Airsoft gets you around that. But for the sort of shooting we do, probably the major Airsoft virtue is that, because there's little muzzle flip and because, in the overall scheme of things compared to a real gun, the sights are moving back-and-forth more slowly, it's much easier to watch the sights move through the entire arc of recoil. This seems to transition over to an improved ability to tract the sights once you switch back over to a real gun. It's a common experience with a shooter who stays away from live ammo for awhile and does copiious amounts of Airsoft practice that the next time they go to the range with live ammo, they find that not only has their speed improved, so has their accuracy at speed."

Quote

2. The tendency to track light colored pellets visually instead of watching the sights rise off the POA (not that they rise the way your match gun would, anyway - see the above). Use light colored targets with light colored pellets, or dark pellets otherwise.

I've heard numerous people say this, but have never experienced it myself. Really, if you're looking at your sights, how could you be distracted by what's happening downrange?

Quote

3. Limited accuracy, at least for the AirSoft I have. That can be good or bad (gotta really get the precise sight picture on the POA right smack in the middle of the target - good for accuracy, but might throw you off as far as getting used to the less precise "acceptable" sight picture that you'd get w/ your match gun).

It's true that out-of-the-box the stock Airsoft may not be particularly accurate; it's also true it may not hit POI/POA. It's also true that both of these problems can, either largely or completely, be corrected. The Airsoft barrel is a two-piece unit, a brass inner barrel surrounded by a plastic sleeve. Pull the two apart, then begin placing strips of masking tape around the copper inner tube, just behind the muzzle, reinserting it inside the plastic sleeve frequently, reassembling the gun, checking function and POI/POA. Eventually you'll find you've gotten to a point the barrel won't tilt back up enough to allow the action to go back into battery. At that point, pull off one strip of tape, you've accurized the gun as much as possible - which will be a MAJOR improvement - but it still works, and I found on my gun this almost completely dealt with the POI/POA discrepancy, as well.

Quote

4. No matter what, 15 feet with a 1/3 sized target is not the same as the full sized target at 15 yards. Eye focus adjustments are different, and, unless the target is at eye level, any movement towards or away from the target will not match what happens to the relative angle of the target to your eyes/gun in "real life".

Do we need to practice exactly a particular problem to have the skills to deal with it? Or can we practice certain basic skills that will then transition over to multiple problems? Just asking.

[kevin c]

Just reflecting on my own experiences:

1. I was mostly thinking of recoil management here. For me, at my level (middling A on a good day) and my build (slight, with typical white collar flabby musculature) recoil management is still an issue. What happens w/ my airsoft is very different from what happens with my Production/L10 Glocks, in terms of how the gun recoils in the hand and what I have to do to manage it. Going from AS to live ammo requires an adjustment on my part. Others here and folks I know at my home club have similar experiences.
Perhaps it's analogous to starting out with a .22. Great in some ways, but to shoot our game there's a step up to using ammunition at 125/165 PF.

2. We all know that we're not supposed to look for the holes, listen for the steel ring/fall, etc. Doesn't mean that we don't do it. I can see the pellets go towards the target. I need to and can ignore it, but I see it none the less. The trick is being able to ignore it and stay on the sights. Somebody starting out could develop habits that move them away from the fundamentals.

3. That, I'm going to have to try.

4. Never said that AS wasn't good for practicing/refining a lot of the skills we need in the sport. That's why I do it, since I can't get to the range several times a week and don't have the ammo anyway. What I was driving at was that it is still removed from the experience of actually shooting a stage. That actually goes for any practice without live fire and/or space matching what a range has to offer.
It's like testing with small scale models. You can learn a lot, but some things don't scale up well, and you have to test the final full size version in the field to know for sure.

[Flyin40]

kevin c, on Jul 9 2009, 11:39 AM, said:

Just reflecting on my own experiences:

1. I was mostly thinking of recoil management here. For me, at my level (middling A on a good day) and my build (slight, with typical white collar flabby musculature) recoil management is still an issue. What happens w/ my airsoft is very different from what happens with my Production/L10 Glocks, in terms of how the gun recoils in the hand and what I have to do to manage it. Going from AS to live ammo requires an adjustment on my part. Others here and folks I know at my home club have similar experiences.
Perhaps it's analogous to starting out with a .22. Great in some ways, but to shoot our game there's a step up to using ammunition at 125/165 PF.

If you using a limited gun there is more of a concern switching back to full power ammo. I found out last yr after practicing with a 22 open gun set up exactly like my Open gun that there is no difference except a feel of recoil which meant nothing to actually shooting the gun. I did some test and found I can run 10 straight runs with the 22 and then pick up my Open gun and immediately shoot the stage again and I will run a faster time every single time with my Open gun. I did it time and time again. From that point on I never practiced with my Open gun again except before nationals where I put about 500 rounds downrange. Now if you have the funds available practice with your real loads. Thats not the case for me so I make do.

Also adding the metal slide, Metal outer barrel adds some recoil. The extra weight will move the muzzle. I know my dot moves up and down enough that I'll miss if I just pull the trigger twice. There is enough movement that to cause that miss.

Here is a link with a headcam showing the difference between a 22 and my open gun

22 vs Open gun

Quote

2. We all know that we're not supposed to look for the holes, listen for the steel ring/fall, etc. Doesn't mean that we don't do it. I can see the pellets go towards the target. I need to and can ignore it, but I see it none the less. The trick is being able to ignore it and stay on the sights. Somebody starting out could develop habits that move them away from the fundamentals.

You have to use black BB's so you can't see them. It helps alot. I didn't know that until I already bought white. I'm going to use the white up then only use black. I found they are pretty easy to get ahold of.

Quote

3. That, I'm going to have to try.

TM's have a hop up which will put pressure on the BB in the chamber. This cause the BB to spin and making it much more accurate. I know after I adjusted my Hop up all the way up(turn it counter clockwise) I was doing headshots at 15ft at full speed and realized that the gun was very accurate. I never once hit the no shoot that covered up the target and hit A's every time. I also upgraded the inner barrel to help with accuracy.

Quote

4. Never said that AS wasn't good for practicing/refining a lot of the skills we need in the sport. That's why I do it, since I can't get to the range several times a week and don't have the ammo anyway. What I was driving at was that it is still removed from the experience of actually shooting a stage. That actually goes for any practice without live fire and/or space matching what a range has to offer.
It's like testing with small scale models. You can learn a lot, but some things don't scale up well, and you have to test the final full size version in the field to know for sure.

Hopefully after practicing a couple of weeks I'll be able to make it too the range and give some feedback.

[Flyin40]

hitman_usmc, on Apr 15 2009, 02:44 PM, said:

Ok, I did a search and didn't find very much about how people are setting up their airsoft area so that BB's aren't all over the place. I see Manny sells netted pellet traps. Has anyone used these? Do they work? Is there something better?

Back to original question


http://www.aaps-fede...asp?TOPIC_ID=10

Take a look at these



Flyin

[Flyin40]

kevin c, on Jul 9 2009, 10:42 AM, said:

Duane Thomas, on Jul 9 2009, 10:25 AM, said:

...My favorite Airsoft targets are actually the little aluminum mini-poppers for reactive target practice...

'cept that I'm really cheap, Duane. I reuse my pellets, at lease the ones I catch in soft backed traps. The pellets coming off the metal targets get deformed. It's okay if they're busted into pieces, but when they get mixed into the other pellets, the deformed ones can jam up an airsoft but good.

It's fun doing "steel" airsoft, but all pellets used that day go straight to the trash (I practice indoors).

BTW, I've seen aluminum airsofts targets get impressively dented up by pellets. Mine are steel, painted white the way our match steel is done. The paint does chip after a while, but one can of spray paint goes a long way for touch up.

You have any pics of your steel targets?? or the website you got them at. I was thiniing of getting some to get some guys together to have some steel challenge type match in the winter.

Thks

Flyin

[kevin c]

BAM Airsoft.

Their website doesn't show their targets, but you can get them here:

www.airsoftextreme.com/store/index.php?main_page

[Flyin40]

kevin c, on Jul 9 2009, 05:03 PM, said:

BAM Airsoft.

Their website doesn't show their targets, but you can get them here:

www.airsoftextreme.com/store/index.php?main_page

Thks, I have some poppers that should be arriving tomorrow so I can start shooting postal matches.

Have you ever tried these??

Steel targets


Flyin

[kevin c]

No, but they look promising.

One problem I dislike is cleaning up the pellets. That's not a problem with paper/cardboard, because I set up traps behind. With steel, though, you get whole and fragged pellets all over. My indoor practice area is multiuse, and now has pellets in every nook and cranny.

One thing that helps some is to mount the metal targets angled forwards, so that hits deflect downwards. I set a towel draped box below and in front of the target to catch the hits. Works OK...

This post has been edited by kevin c: 09 July 2009 - 05:29 PM

[Flyin40]

kevin c, on Jul 9 2009, 06:18 PM, said:

No, but they look promising.

One problem I dislike is cleaning up the pellets. That's not a problem with paper/cardboard, because I set up traps behind. With steel, though, you get whole and fragged pellets all over. My indoor practice area is multiuse, and now has pellets in every nook and cranny.

One think that helps some is to mount the metal targets angled forwards, so that hits deflect downwards. I set a towel draped box below and in front of the target to catch the hits. Works OK...

LOL, thats me exactly. I shoot in the basement and use the vacuum to suck up all the pellets.


Flyin