[bossharley]

I am a new shooter and will be shooting in the next week or 2 with S&W625. I was reading the rules regarding reloads. I was wondering if you all might share some expertise.

The rules state that Tac-reloads should be planned such that less than 6 rounds are expended prior to the reload (revolver neutral).

However, the classifier calls for 2 stages with 6 shot strings/ tac-reload / 6 more shots. Does a revolver shooter just retain the empty moon clip holder?

Also, when retaining the holders does the shooter pocket them, put them on belt/moon clip holders?

My local club is shooting a classifier on Sunday - would it be insane (even allowed) for me to shoot my first shoot as a classifier?

Thanks very much.

John

[rr4406pak]

It is definitely allowed if you shoot the classifier as your first shoot.
Don't let it intimidate you.

When we shot the classifier at my club they let you drop the empty moons (because they did not see the sense in pocketing an empty moon).
I would discuss with RO before you shoot String 3 and just shoot it how he tells you.

Just relax and have fun!

[bossharley]

rr4406pak, on Mar 31 2009, 05:33 PM, said:

It is definitely allowed if you shoot the classifier as your first shoot.
Don't let it intimidate you.

When we shot the classifier at my club they let you drop the empty moons (because they did not see the sense in pocketing an empty moon).
I would discuss with RO before you shoot String 3 and just shoot it how he tells you.

Just relax and have fun!

Thanks I am really looking forward to this!!

[Steve J]

rr4406pak, on Mar 31 2009, 04:33 PM, said:

It is definitely allowed if you shoot the classifier as your first shoot.
Don't let it intimidate you.

When we shot the classifier at my club they let you drop the empty moons (because they did not see the sense in pocketing an empty moon).
I would discuss with RO before you shoot String 3 and just shoot it how he tells you.

Just relax and have fun!

+1 ...and unless the club has SOs who are revolver shooters or a lot of revolver shooters in the club, they may not be up on some of the finer points of revolver rules.

[Jim Watson]

There is no requirement to retain a full moon clip with six empties in ESR Classifier Stage 3 or any other situation calling for a Tactical Reload after six shots with a revolver.

[Shooter59]

bossharley, on Mar 31 2009, 03:35 PM, said:

rr4406pak, on Mar 31 2009, 05:33 PM, said:

It is definitely allowed if you shoot the classifier as your first shoot.
Don't let it intimidate you.

When we shot the classifier at my club they let you drop the empty moons (because they did not see the sense in pocketing an empty moon).
I would discuss with RO before you shoot String 3 and just shoot it how he tells you.

Just relax and have fun!

Thanks I am really looking forward to this!!

I believe revolver shooters are exempt from retaining spent moon clips or speed loaders

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

If all ammo is fired it is not a Tac Reload. It is a reload. The classifier uses all you have. There are times you will be on a stage that requires you shoot four rounds, tac reload and go on When that happens, put the unused in your pocket, reload, and re engage.

Enjoy

[bossharley]

Jim Watson, on Mar 31 2009, 05:40 PM, said:

There is no requirement to retain a full moon clip with six empties in ESR Classifier Stage 3 or any other situation calling for a Tactical Reload after six shots with a revolver.

Thanks to all, I was hoping that was the way to handle it.

Wish me luck! Going to be slow and safe.

J

[Jane]

Unfortunately, the rule book doesn't make clear that the tac reloads in the classifier do not apply to revolver shooters.

But the IDPA website's SO Instructions for Classification Match do:

Quote

The key issue in the final stage is the "tactical reload." Shooters must be warned that the "tactical reload" requires the exchange of the partial magazine for a full one from behind cover. The partial magazine must be retained in a manner of practical carry. This means the partial magazine must be placed in a pocket, in the belt, or back in a magazine pouch. Lanyards, special baggy pockets, or placing the partial magazine in the mouth are not considered practical. If the partial magazine is dropped to the ground, the shooter may pick it up for retention without penalty. This is simply a standard re-load for revolver shooters.

If you think your club's SOs may not be aware of that, you might want to print the web page.

[Boats]

Was in the same position, wanted to classify my 3 inch 625 in ESR just for grins. Asked the RSO just before the stage, He said retain the empty moon clip just like it was a partially loaded magazine. Might have been right might have been wrong, made no difference to me just retained the empty moon. Cost me a couple of seconds max. At that point was on track safe in the middle of Marksman so who cares about a few seconds. I slowed down and made sure I got all hits on the Barricade anyway, short barrel and all. Argue with him and would have lost focus, no telling what could have happened.

I think he was wrong though, if I was shooting a full size gun and tapping on Sharpshooter would have approached it different.

Boats

This post has been edited by Boats: 31 March 2009 - 07:39 PM

[freeidaho]

Jane, on Mar 31 2009, 08:18 PM, said:

Unfortunately, the rule book doesn't make clear that the tac reloads in the classifier do not apply to revolver shooters.

But the IDPA website's SO Instructions for Classification Match do:

Quote

The key issue in the final stage is the "tactical reload." Shooters must be warned that the "tactical reload" requires the exchange of the partial magazine for a full one from behind cover. The partial magazine must be retained in a manner of practical carry. This means the partial magazine must be placed in a pocket, in the belt, or back in a magazine pouch. Lanyards, special baggy pockets, or placing the partial magazine in the mouth are not considered practical. If the partial magazine is dropped to the ground, the shooter may pick it up for retention without penalty. This is simply a standard re-load for revolver shooters.

If you think your club's SOs may not be aware of that, you might want to print the web page.

Jane,
Unfortunately this phrase from the SO instructions for the Classifier stage 3 has been construed by some to mean that revolver shooter never ever have to retain rounds on a tac-reload or reload with retention, even if there are some live rounds in the mix. Which is not true. You can only abandon all of them when they are all spent. Or you can only abandon the spent brass. Either phrase works for the Classifier and regular IDPA stages too.

Thanks for the link. I hadn't been there in a while.

kr

[Bones]

bossharley, on Mar 31 2009, 05:28 PM, said:

I am a new shooter and will be shooting in the next week or 2 with S&W625. I was reading the rules regarding reloads. I was wondering if you all might share some expertise.

The rules state that Tac-reloads should be planned such that less than 6 rounds are expended prior to the reload (revolver neutral).

However, the classifier calls for 2 stages with 6 shot strings/ tac-reload / 6 more shots. Does a revolver shooter just retain the empty moon clip holder?

Also, when retaining the holders does the shooter pocket them, put them on belt/moon clip holders?

My local club is shooting a classifier on Sunday - would it be insane (even allowed) for me to shoot my first shoot as a classifier?

Thanks very much.

John

John,

Rest assured that Connecticut Sport Shooter SOs at the Hartford Gun Club on Sunday will be very familiar with revolver shooters and the applicable IDPA rules.

You have my word on that.

Good Luck,

Craig

This post has been edited by Bones: 01 April 2009 - 06:56 AM

[bossharley]

Thanks for the support, always a little nervous when trying something new.

John

Bones, on Apr 1 2009, 09:55 AM, said:

bossharley, on Mar 31 2009, 05:28 PM, said:

I am a new shooter and will be shooting in the next week or 2 with S&W625. I was reading the rules regarding reloads. I was wondering if you all might share some expertise.

The rules state that Tac-reloads should be planned such that less than 6 rounds are expended prior to the reload (revolver neutral).

However, the classifier calls for 2 stages with 6 shot strings/ tac-reload / 6 more shots. Does a revolver shooter just retain the empty moon clip holder?

Also, when retaining the holders does the shooter pocket them, put them on belt/moon clip holders?

My local club is shooting a classifier on Sunday - would it be insane (even allowed) for me to shoot my first shoot as a classifier?

Thanks very much.

John

John,

Rest assured that Connecticut Sport Shooter SOs at the Hartford Gun Club on Sunday will be very familiar with revolver shooters and the applicable IDPA rules.

You have my word on that.

Good Luck,

Craig

[RobMoore]

This is why on limited stages, use of the phrase "mandatory reload" is good when defining a point where all shooters must reload. You have to perform one there, no matter what you shoot. The rulebook lets you know you have three options, pick the one that fits the situation.

[Chuck Anderson]

Just out of curiousity, has anyone tried stuffing a partially spent moon clip back into their gun? I've never been able to do it with spent brass in the clip. It swells up when it shoots to the diameter of the cylinder wall and it would be nuts to try and stuff it back in.

[MichiganShootist]

I was at a match which required a tac-reload and the course of fire for the stage was 18 rounds... so I was forced to use a partially spent moon and to reload it into my 625. I got it done but it was probably damn near a 10 second reload. It took a lot of wiggle time and then just forcing the fired cases into the gun. If my cylinder didn't have a considerable chamfer I don't think it would be possible.

That's the only attempt I've made at that and it was real ugly.

The SSR guys were digging through the brass and bullets in their pockets for reloads but that was easier than the half shot moon clip.

[Jim Watson]

MichiganShootist, on Apr 2 2009, 06:27 AM, said:

The SSR guys were digging through the brass and bullets in their pockets for reloads but that was easier than the half shot moon clip.

Early days, I spent a lot of time working on real revolver tac loads instead of the Official Rule Book Recommendation of
"A common method of doing a tactical reload with a revolver is to
dump empty cases and unfired rounds into your hand, stuff the whole mess in
your pocket, then recharge your revolver to full capacity."

There are ways to retain the live rounds, discard the empties, and do a real Tac Load with a revolver, but the need did not arise but once in the three seasons that I shot a revolver.

Heck, I even had some Auto Rims and a few of the little two-shot clips in my kit in case they wanted me to do something weird with my M25 at the time.

[Boats]

In our club matches if the course of fire is impossible or impractical for Revolvers we bring it up in the Walk through. The Match director always makes a call giving something reasonable. They don't try to trip revolvers up just don't shoot them and sometimes fail to think about what has to be done,

Most moon clips are not going to go back in the Cylinder very well with some rounds fired. Any COF that need 18 shots ought to be regular revolver re-loads. If not it's something to bring up to the MD

Boats

[GmanCdp]

All COF's around here that require a tac load is after 6 rnds,..never seen a COF that said to tac load after 2 or 4 rnds..use to see COF's that had 8 or 9 rnds in the first array,then an opening and shoot on the move at 3 T's,forced the shooter to do a tac load or be caught out in the open dry...back in 2002 thru 2004 when alot of shooters from around here were shooting SSR and ESR,during the calssifier,never did see anybody retain any shells..

This post has been edited by GmanCdp: 03 April 2009 - 06:28 AM

[MemphisMechanic]

GmanCdp, on Apr 3 2009, 08:22 AM, said:

All COF's around here that require a tac load is after 6 rnds,..never seen a COF that said to tac load after 2 or 4 rnds..use to see COF's that had 8 or 9 rnds in the first array,then an opening and shoot on the move at 3 T's,forced the shooter to do a tac load or be caught out in the open dry...back in 2002 thru 2004 when alot of shooters from around here were shooting SSR and ESR,during the calssifier,never did see anybody retain any shells..

I've designed a lot of stages that ENCOURAGE a tac load, but I refuse to require one. Ever. It's contrary to the spirit of the rulebook, and I personally think it's just plain lazy stage design.

If you slap two targets at one end of a 15 foot wall, and five in the remainder of the stage, the fastest way to shoot that stage with a bottom-feeder is going to be a tac load while moving. After getting stomped by everyone who chooses to tac-load a few times, the "Slide lock is always faster!" guys usually get the hint.

How that related to the topic at hand...

In the spirit of this type of stage design while indoors, I have set up stages before with 2 targets at one end of a wall, and three at the 'destination' end. It absolutely benefited our ESR shooter to tac-load on that stage.

This post has been edited by MemphisMechanic: 09 April 2009 - 08:27 PM

[michaels]

Chuck Anderson, on Apr 2 2009, 06:21 AM, said:

Just out of curiousity, has anyone tried stuffing a partially spent moon clip back into their gun? I've never been able to do it with spent brass in the clip. It swells up when it shoots to the diameter of the cylinder wall and it would be nuts to try and stuff it back in.

Chuck, if you keep a couple of the plastic moons for the 45 with you, and you think you might have to tac reload, they work pretty well for tac reloads. When you go to reuse one of the plastic moons, just flick the empties off the moon and drop the moon back into cylinder with just the live rounds left. Try to index it if you remember.

For SSR, you just turn the cylinder upside down and the live rounds fall out into your hand, pocket those, and then kick the empties onto the ground.

I did once have to range lawyer when a speedload malfunctioned on the reload and spewed all six live rounds onto the ground. Got the procedural for leaving live ammo on the ground. I asked the SO what he'd do if the floorplate came off his mag while he was doing a reload. He was kind enough to realize if was about the same thing and he removed the procedural....

michaels

This post has been edited by michaels: 21 April 2009 - 11:33 PM

[RobMoore]

I'm guessing you didn't drop it at the final position? In other words, after it spilled, you had to move from there to finish the course of fire?

[kevinpagano]

I have been kicking the idea around of shooting SSR in IDPA . Having shot alot of idpa in the past until the last 3 years. I dont think a mandatory tac reload/reload with retention should be required anywhere on a stage. It should be used like the uspsa guys use dumping live mags on the ground to maneuver a stage. If it makes sense on the stage then do it if not dont.

Also what happens when you have a stage that requires a tac reload and you mess it up leaving rounds on the ground and you have a 18 round stage do you run back and get those rounds off the ground. Or do they now allow a back up magazine or speed loader etc.

[Bones]

GmanCdp, on Apr 3 2009, 09:22 AM, said:

All COF's around here that require a tac load is after 6 rnds,..never seen a COF that said to tac load after 2 or 4 rnds..use to see COF's that had 8 or 9 rnds in the first array,then an opening and shoot on the move at 3 T's,forced the shooter to do a tac load or be caught out in the open dry...back in 2002 thru 2004 when alot of shooters from around here were shooting SSR and ESR,during the calssifier,never did see anybody retain any shells..

You should have come to the 09 S&W match - 2 were required, another was a really good idea. You need to get out more.

Craig

[Gregg K]

kevinpagano, on Apr 23 2009, 07:49 AM, said:

Also what happens when you have a stage that requires a tac reload and you mess it up leaving rounds on the ground and you have a 18 round stage do you run back and get those rounds off the ground. Or do they now allow a back up magazine or speed loader etc.

You could leave them behind and still have enough to finish the stage. You begin the stage with 24 rounds, six in the gun and 3 speedloaders.