[underlug]

There are now 2 stage descriptions for the Far and Near at the IRC this year. One with the par times and one without. Is it being shot twice, or, is the change described in another thread, no par times, the only way it will be shot this year?

What does everyone think about the change??

[cliffwalsh]

I think you can shoot it twice and keep the best score.

[ffl]

I believe you have a choice of which to shoot.

If you want the par times and want to shoot for the 1000 dollars you shoot one

if you don't want the par times and don't want to try for the 1000 you shoot the other one.

dcs

[jhgtyre]

I just got this from a friend:

Quote

A Kinder, Gentler IRC
Our traditional Far & Near Standards will be shot on clock times instead of par times due to results of a poll by Match Director Nelson. String times will be captured as actual time used. Shooters are free to take as much time as needed so missed shots should dramatically decrease. No misses and Overtime penalties will reduce the impact of this single stage on the overall match totals.

[Nelson]

Hi Guys and Gals,

Nelson Dymond here..."Far and Near Standards" will not be shot at the IRC this year. It is replaced by "Timeless Far and Near". It is still "Shots Limited", but the Par Times have been eliminated. I know my decision is not going to make everyone happy, but it will make the stage a lot friendlier without the Par Times. Now you have to make a choice, shoot it fast or slow down and go for the Xs. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...good luck.

BTW, as some of you have noticed there are 3, yes three Texas Stars in the match this year. In years past, I have been against Texas Stars in a Major Match, but if by now you have not shot a Texas Star, you have been living in the dark ages.

Practice...practice...practice,

Nelson Dymond
2009 IRC Match Director

[mwx40x40]

Exactly what is the setup for Far and Near Standards?

[hearthco]

underlug, on Mar 24 2009, 02:15 AM, said:

There are now 2 stage descriptions for the Far and Near at the IRC this year. One with the par times and one without. Is it being shot twice, or, is the change described in another thread, no par times, the only way it will be shot this year?

What does everyone think about the change??

Im personally against the change. I believe we are lowering the bar.

The standards teach the important things that make a good shooter.

I dont agree with the need to make the match easier for new shooters. Isnt this the International Revolver Championship?

I would like to see ICORE require the proper standards to be shot in the IRC.

But, its Nelson's match and his decision. Hearthco

[TMC]

I'm with Dave, leave the standards as they were.

Sure it can be a make or break for the match (I'm probally jinxing myself right now as I type this) but its a real test of just about all the shooting skils all in one stage.

[revoman]

I will say one more time " Long live the Far and Near Standards " and with that I rest my case. With this no longer being a stage at the IRC then the IRC has just become a major match instead of the Premier Revolver match. This one stage could change your place in the standings 20 to 30 places each way and even though I may have shot a good match and blew the standards I felt my final standings were justified because I did not shoot a good standards and a good standards would have made my match a great match. That one stage combines all the skills needed to complete all the other stages into one stage and yes it does suck to have one stage weigh so heavy on a whole match but you know what thats what made the IRC the IRC. This coming from someone who has shot a lot of Far and Near Standards some good and some bad.

Dean Gomez
Life Member ICORE #16

[underlug]

hearthco, on Mar 24 2009, 04:26 PM, said:

underlug, on Mar 24 2009, 02:15 AM, said:

There are now 2 stage descriptions for the Far and Near at the IRC this year. One with the par times and one without. Is it being shot twice, or, is the change described in another thread, no par times, the only way it will be shot this year?

What does everyone think about the change??

Im personally against the change. I believe we are lowering the bar.

The standards teach the important things that make a good shooter.

I dont agree with the need to make the match easier for new shooters. Isnt this the International Revolver Championship?

I would like to see ICORE require the proper standards to be shot in the IRC.

But, its Nelson's match and his decision. Hearthco

I agree with Dave, but this isn't a game breaking issue as to my attendance at the best match of the year. I'm old and hate change, in addition to Dave's reasoning, even though the Standards have always handed me my hat.

[revoman]

Don''t get me wrong I will still attend as long as I am able and hopefully that is a long time. Long live the IRC also.

[cliffwalsh]

revoman, on Mar 24 2009, 05:45 PM, said:

That one stage combines all the skills needed to complete all the other stages into one stage

Dean Gomez
Life Member ICORE #16

That would be true if we were shooting the Bianchi Cup.

Most of the stages at the IRC and every other match (except a classifier match) are field courses. You have to formulate a plan that shoots to your strengths then execute that plan. There is no part of this in Far and Near. It is not the holy grail of stages. It is a knock off of the stage at the Bianchi Cup so it is not really an ICORE stage. Just like the steel stages we run. Icore is a melting pot of disciplines and Far and Near is just one part of it.

I have said this before. The shooters that like it are the ones who shoot it many times before the IRC. No everyone has the opportunity to do so. The ones that do have a great advantage. It is a challenging stage there is no doubt. It is a test for sure but it is not the only test. I would like to see the Far and Near every other year and the off year have a 60 round field course or a stage with 36 falling steel targets. That would be a test.

[TMC]

In case there was any doubt, the changing of the Standards will not change my attendance. The IRC is the best revolver match bar none. I cannot thank Nelson and the match staff enough making this match happen.

See you in June

Todd

[cliffwalsh]

TMC, on Mar 24 2009, 08:20 PM, said:

In case there was any doubt, the changing of the Standards will not change my attendance.
See you in June

Todd

I guess we will have to try something else.....

[Bubber]

I liked / hated the Far and Near Standards. I liked it because it was a difficult stage to shoot but it could be done. I felt the Par times were adequate but you had to push yourself to make the best hits you were able to do at that time. No amount of muscle memory would help you on the stage as the distance to the targets and the scoring make you see each shot taken. You may be able to luck a shot in but not 6 of them. What is needed would be a couple more long stages to give the competitor the opportunity to make up some ground lost if not shot well. With the Par times taken out it will still be a challenging stage but a bauble on a reload or minor gun malfunction will not doom you to the pound of titegroup from the prize table. Underlug knows whut I mean..I'll be there because it is a great match with great people running the match and great people shooting it, and me too!

[jhgtyre]

I like the change for the reasons stated by Cliff and others. One stage should not make or break a match. I would love to see it completely removed from the match but added as a side match run in the traditional manner. That way those who have long worked towards perfecting this challenge could continue to strive for the goal of beating it and winning the prize. If you put a reasonable fee up and have a cash payback for top performers people will come and the challenge will continue.

-ld

[Carmoney]

Since I've been pretty vocal about the topic of the standards stage at the IRC, I want to make sure that my opinion (and the opinions of those who may agree with me) is not misunderstood. For the record, I don't "dislike" the Far and Near Standards. Hell, it wouldn't bother me if you added a 100-yard string and cut the par times in half. Make it easier, make it tougher, whatever.

What I dislike is the fact that it's always been the same stage, year after year, and that has allowed some people to artificially groove themselves in by setting up the stage way in advance at their home range, and shooting it over and over and over and over and over and over in practice. As a result, the IRC has become somewhat predominated by performance on this one stage, which to a significant extends rewards rote memory on one particular narrow task, rather than reward all-around multi-disciplinaty shooting skill. Or so it seems to me.

So for having the guts to change things up and try something different, even in a relatively minor way, I think we should all wholeheartedly applaud Nelson and the IRC.

[jmax]

The ICORE statistician reviewed the standings results for several of the past years results and from my discussion with him lets just say that our preconceptions about our order of finishes changing dramatically needs to be examined and reviewed.

My observations from competition with rifles and pistols for more than three decades are that if one is skilled to perform well in any tough standard exercise then performance will be consistent throughout a balanced match. If one is not skilled in good revolver manipulation (or pistol or rifle or shotgun), reloading skills and accuracy under time constraints then they will not perform as well throughout the match. Standards have been a display of ones fundamental skills but unfortunately it can make some of those who are not very skilled feel uncomfortable IMHO. Keep them without change.

[Steelshooter]

Carmoney, on Mar 24 2009, 09:45 PM, said:

Since I've been pretty vocal about the topic of the standards stage at the IRC, I want to make sure that my opinion (and the opinions of those who may agree with me) is not misunderstood. For the record, I don't "dislike" the Far and Near Standards. Hell, it wouldn't bother me if you added a 100-yard string and cut the par times in half. Make it easier, make it tougher, whatever.

What I dislike is the fact that it's always been the same stage, year after year, and that has allowed some people to artificially groove themselves in by setting up the stage way in advance at their home range, and shooting it over and over and over and over and over and over in practice. As a result, the IRC has become somewhat predominated by performance on this one stage, which to a significant extends rewards rote memory on one particular narrow task, rather than reward all-around multi-disciplinaty shooting skill. Or so it seems to me.

So for having the guts to change things up and try something different, even in a relatively minor way, I think we should all wholeheartedly applaud Nelson and the IRC.

The three times that I have made it to the the IRC I have welcomed the opportunity to challenge myself against this stage. It doesn't reward those who "groove it", it rewards those who practice all the necessary skills to advance yourself towards mastery. Look at the results year to year and those who are great shooters shoot this well. I doubt Jerry, or Vic, or Jason P, or Robbie, etc benefited from practicing this over and over. I am saddened that this will no longer be the challenging stage it once was.

I think Yoda summed this stage up best!

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=q3hn6fFTxeo

See you at the star studded, and Near and Far-less IRC!

[Carmoney]

Steelshooter, on Mar 25 2009, 10:07 PM, said:

I doubt Jerry, or Vic, or Jason P, or Robbie, etc benefited from practicing this over and over.

Give me a break here. Jerry practices those standards plenty. We've all heard him discuss how he sets it up on his practice range, and how he's managed to clean it a few times with all X-ring hits in practice, and all that stuff.

[Bubber]

I do practice the Far and Near Standards, I will shoot it Three times a session when I do praactice. I don't call it cheating, it's more like gaming. I will continue to practice the standards to improve my shooting. It is a tough stage and will let you know what you need to work on if you study your results from each string. It will be interesting to see if the scores drop, As I have stated before it should help the competitor that baubles a reload or the revo malfunctions from totally blowing the stage. But time shall tell..and here's to all you practice and those who do not.

Note; My practice is only so I can have more brass to reload.... later rdd

[pskys2]

Oh Boy, now the cats out of the bag.

Go figure, practice "Hard" Shots and you do well in most all other Shots.

WOW! Who'd a thunk it.

[JohnRodriguez]

My approach to Standars and it wont change for this year, is in May, I will set up and make sure my sight is set up for 50 yard, then make the adjustments for close in shooting. From there make sure that I can do the reload in the 10 seconds at the 10 and 3 yard line. In all, I'll run it about 5 or 6 times. Vic's approach and the Mesa group will hammer it out for several months. As far as Jerry and i'm assuming Rob L who is mentioned, they have the Bianchi that they are getting ready for, which happens a couple of weeks before the IRC. Go figure that one disipline will benifit another huh?. What am I saying, bianchi is a set shooting style that should be scorned for requiring disapline and accuracy to win.

I guess for all the bitchers out here, why don't we do like the double tap match and just have a big lottery, where peformance doesn't matter anymore.

[Pin Shooter]

Ok Guys, time for me to weigh in on this issue.

I welcome the change for a number of reasons, but for me ( and that is the only performance that I am concerned with at the IRC ) the standards definitely skew my match. In the past when I have access to a 50 yard range, and be able to practise the standards, I have done better, than when I have not had access. When I shoot a " bad " standards at the match, it has a sharp reflection to my score, and if I decide to "try" to make it up on the field courses, it can compound.

I love the IRC and ICORE in general, and nothing will keep me away, and for the last 5 years I have heard lots of people ask for the Standards to be taken out all together. I think that the decision to make this modification is a great compromise. It will take the stress out of missing the target for shooters that don't have the skills to complete the standards, and for those that have the skills, but a reload goes bad, they won't be throwing away the whole match on one stage. ( This has not happened to me, but I know a lot that it has happened to )

I also believe that this change is a reflection of a poll of the competitors, so obviuosly there are more people that wanted it changed than those who did not. ( I did not vote in the poll )

So once again congrats to Nelson for listening to the competitors, to provide a match that they want.

For those that don't welcome the change and enjoy shooting X's under pressure, there are still plenty of slots open for this years Bianchi Cup. ( by the way, even at the Bianchi Cup, you get more time to shoot than we had on the standards )

I'll be at both.

Enjoy


Mark

[sargenv]

I read about the far and near standards, and while I never did all that good on it, it was something I did not fear.

Today I shot it both ways.. when I mean both ways I mean try to get as many X's as possible and then shoot it as fast as I could. I actually did better when I was in a hurry rather than take my time and make the shots count. When I took my time and got mostly X's, I took too much time and ended up with a 41 and change. When I went normal speed, thinking par time, I scored 35 and change. I think I will stick to what I know.