[John Tuley]

I've been reading threads about slings for 3-gun, and I have some questions. I haven't actually started going to 3-gun matches yet, but I've picked up a Benny Hill-built AR-15 (A2-stock, Clark carbon fiber foreend) and a Benelli M2 (ComforTech stock, Nordic tube with sling swivel on the clamp).

I've seen a lot of suggestions to go with VTAC or Vickers two-point slings, but I'm not sure how well they'd work with the standard sling points on the equipment I've got, since those slings seem best attached to the side of the gun, but my setups have the swivels along the "keel," for lack of a better word.

So here's what I'm thinking: put single-point attachment plates between the receiver and stock on each gun. (I can't find any for the M2 [just M1/M3 and non-Benelli's], but I haven't given up looking yet.) Then I'd get some kind of sling that detaches easily from the gun (either with a clip, or with a buckle, such as the Specter MOUT). That way, you'd only have to sling up once, and then just clip/buckle in the appropriate boomstick.

Is this the wrong approach? Is manipulating a shotgun different enough from the carbine that I'd be hurting myself by having a similar setup? Am I overthinking the problem entirely? (I have a tendency to do that; it comes from having engineers for both parents and then going into mathematics for my career.)

I should also note that I'd really like to get some kind of collapsible stock on the AR, because I feel like the A2 is just a hair to long to be comfortable with a squared-off stance. It feels great when I'm bladed and shooting across the chest, like I was taught to do with hunting rifles, but that doesn't seem appropriate for an action-shooting profile. So perhaps if you have any advice on what to do with the same foreend but different stock, I'd love to read that, too.

Thanks!
-- John.

[jobob]

You might try an A1 stock to replace your A2. It's 5/8" shorter. I have 2. Got one each from Fulton Armory and Cavalry Arms. The A2 buttplate will change over to the a A1, btw.

I don't have any sling setup for my shotgun. So far, I haven't needed one, but I could be sorry some day!

[lmccrock]

There is a butt stock adaptor option from Viking. I know it works on A2 stocks. Any sling which normally attaches to an M4 stock will work with it, and a Vtac sling will attach to a typical collapsible stock without it.

While a horrible option for a real tactical gun, I have attached a Vtac to an upper with a Clark fiber fore-end by wrapping the strap around the fore-end and zip-tying it to the scope mount. Looks awful, but works for those rare occasions when I need a slung gun at a match. I have heard of drilling a hole in the Clark fiber and mounting a stud or piece of rail, but I have not tried that.

Generally matches do not require slings and the long shotguns we usually run are not conducive to being slung, and these are not tactical arms going into combat or police cars. However, barrel clamps can be used but do not wait until the day of the match to try loading with the sling on.

Lee

[kurtm]

I love to hear the "square to the target" thing!.... now If I just could get the guys I shoot against to do it I would be in heaven!

As for slings in 3-gun matches, you might need one to "carry" a gun occasionally, but you don't do it very often and almost no-one uses a sling as a shooting aide, (once again If I could only convince Robbie and Kelly to quit using a sling that way I would be in heaven), so any attachment will be just fine. KurtM

[kellyn]

Kurt,

Hey, aren't we like on the same US Standard team or something like that? Save your hate until August.

John,

You really want 2 slings. A VTAC for nearly everything on both guns. You can buy an adaptor which fits the VTAC on nearly any long gun imaginable. I would also have a ching sling in my kit for the rifle. I think it provides slightly more support for kneeling and sitting applications the VTAC but it is not nearly as versatile as an all around sling.

I also agree with Kurt, I want all my competitors to use a squared off stance with a long gun, particularly the shotgun. Realize that most (not all) of the better 3 gunners do NOT shoot squared up to the target when shooting long guns. Find a stance that works for you.

[John Tuley]

OK, so I wasn't "overthinking" the problem, just coming from the completely wrong direction. Did I mention (let's check . . . yep) I haven't actually shot any matches yet. In fact, I've taken my AR and the new Benelli out exactly once each, and fired about 75 rounds through each of them. (Damn school . . . keeps me constantly busy AND constantly poor.)

So . . . thanks to Kurt and kellyn for the reality check. Maybe I'll start by going to a local match or two and just watching (hey, that's free, right?) to see how people shoot and with what gear. And going back and reading all the back threads in the 3-gun sections of this forum, which I ignored in the past since I was only a pistol shooter. I'll go do that search (like I should have in the first place), so I can figure out what Kurt and kellyn are talking about.

By the way, I prefer my crow with barbecue sauce, but am prepared to eat it. Thanks for the input!

[Dan Sierpina]

John,
Don't just watch the local matches, shoot them. You'll find what works and doesn't much faster. Just watching will only add to confusion since we all do things a bit differently.
Kurt and Kelly are both good with their advice. (Just discount the .2 of a second faster than the other stuff. )

[ac4wordplay]

From a USPSA Multi-Gun and local independent 3gun perspective...

Unless a course of fire specifically requires the use of a sling (climbing a ladder, etc.) - which has been almost non-existent for me - then I never use a sling, nor see slings being successfully used. They seem to be more of a liability than an asset. I have seen them used to disastrous result: as competitor moves, the sling catches on prop and whips the long gun past the 180; as the long gun is retrieved from a table, the sling catches on the pistol (also on the table) and flips the pistol (breaking the 180). Sometimes the sling merely catches on something momentarily, or distracts the competitor.

Does anybody have different (positive) experiences in courses of fire that don't require a sling (in Mgun/3gun competition)?

Thanks,

ac

[abn-rgr]

I hate slings and the only reason Im practicing with one now (VTAC) is the BRM3G requires one.

[RiggerJJ]

John,
MOST of the time when a sling is required for a match or a stage, its for CARRY only - to get you from point A to point B with your rifle with you, so it can be used later in the stage. It saves reset time between shooters on a long stage. (and messes with the already heavily burden down 3-gun shooter... ) So I would consider that when shopping. Like has been said above, adding a shooting sling can be detrimental, just more stuff added to your already heavy & over-burden kit that will mess with your head.
K.I.S.S. = don't use a sling unless you have to. carry one in your bag for just in case, but know how to use it before you do.

third saturdays at Aurora Gun Club we have a 3 gun match, usually 4 stages.
4th saturdays at Weld County is another monthly 3 gun match, usually 4 stages.

yep, two 3 gun matches a month in the Denver area!

bring your toys and come out!
jj

[barrysuperhawk]

I actually do exactly this, I run the single point plates on my 590, 1100, AR and FAL. I am running a CAA sling that I swapped the clippie out for a small climbing carabiner [Nite-Ize S-Biner] wich is as secure as it needs to be without being difficult.

The only trouble I have ever had with this setup is that my FAL and my 1100 are MUCH longer, and a real liability if you need to transition , then kneel. My solution has been a second bungee cord, hanging over my shoulder, to clip the single point to...

[Bryan 45]

In the matches that require a sling for long guns, used stictly for carry as JJ described, what are the rules on muzzle position? Do you have to maintain the 180 while the gun is slung over your shoulder?

What about sweeping your feet? I can see this as an issue w/ a single point set-up.

[RiggerJJ]

Bryan 45, on Mar 26 2009, 07:38 AM, said:

In the matches that require a sling for long guns, used stictly for carry as JJ described, what are the rules on muzzle position? Do you have to maintain the 180 while the gun is slung over your shoulder?

What about sweeping your feet? I can see this as an issue w/ a single point set-up.

AGAIN, MOST of what I see (and this includes RM3G) muzzle up or down doesn't matter, as we have you carry your rifle or shotgun slung and UNLOADED. Single point slings don't work too well for this application as the gun is attached at only one point on the sling, almost requiring you to keep at least one hand on the gun to keep it from beating you soundly about the head & shoulders or knees & ankles. The sling is for CARRY only, you will be shooting other guns while carrying the one that is slung.

jj

[DMAC]

abn-rgr, on Mar 25 2009, 03:09 PM, said:

I hate slings and the only reason Im practicing with one now (VTAC) is the BRM3G requires one.

+1

Well......actually.......I've just bought the slings, but I haven't practiced with them yet.