[kamikaze1a]

Thinking about trying training with an Airsoft. Which model/brand has the most realistic Glock trigger? Need to improve transitioning between targets...

[Leozinho]

kamikaze1a, on Mar 13 2009, 08:05 PM, said:

Thinking about trying training with an Airsoft. Which model/brand has the most realistic Glock trigger? Need to improve transitioning between targets...

I don't know the answer. However, if you don't get a good answer here, you might consider just going with the one that Manny Bragg sells, which is the WE version.

http://www.mannyusa....ack_Pistol.html

(If you aren't familiar with the name, Manny Bragg is a top GM and comes highly recommended as an instructor and vendor. Buy with confidence.)

(Edited to correct the brand sold. It's WE, not Western Arms as I originally wrote.)

This post has been edited by Leozinho: 16 March 2009 - 06:40 AM

[shoot]

kamikaze1a, on Mar 13 2009, 09:05 PM, said:

Thinking about trying training with an Airsoft. Which model/brand has the most realistic Glock trigger? Need to improve transitioning between targets...

I like my KWA G17. The trigger is light compared to stock glocks. For me the trigger weight and reset feels about right compared to my glocks with trigger work at about 3#.

My KWA G17 is a bit fatter so it may be tight in some holsters. ( ie. Just like my advantage arms 22lr conversion )

[Woody Allen]

Leozinho, on Mar 15 2009, 06:48 PM, said:

kamikaze1a, on Mar 13 2009, 08:05 PM, said:

Thinking about trying training with an Airsoft. Which model/brand has the most realistic Glock trigger? Need to improve transitioning between targets...

I don't know the answer. However, if you don't get a good answer here, you might consider just going with the one that Manny Bragg sells, which is the WE version.

http://www.mannyusa....ack_Pistol.html

(If you aren't familiar with the name, Manny Bragg is a top GM and comes highly recommended as an instructor and vendor. Buy with confidence.)

(Edited to correct the brand sold. It's WE, not Western Arms as I originally wrote.)

Manny's website is incorrect.

What MB sells is the HFC (Ho Feng Corp) Model No. HG-185ASB. NOT a WE or a WA. The lower is plastic not metal. The slide is metal. WE and or WA don't make a Glock Airsoft.

http://www.redwolfai...il?prodID=18166

Get a TM, KWA/KSC.

TM, KWA/KSC are better quality, accuracy, reliability, and replacement/upgrade parts are available.

Don't get a HFC.

This post has been edited by Woody Allen: 16 March 2009 - 09:31 AM

[Rob D]

I've got the G17 from Manny Bragg's site. The trigger has a fair amount of pre-travel(like a glock), but the actual click is slightly lighter and a little more crisp than a real glock trigger. It's great for practicing gun handling and movement. They're relatively accurate at close range too. Me and a buddy spent saturday night knocking over 10mm-18mm hex sockets. FWIW, I think you're going to have a hard time finding anything closer to a glock trigger in an airsoft gun since the mechanism is so fundamentally different.

The only downside to the gun I bought from manny is that the slide is about 1/16" wider than a standard G17 slide so it wont fit into my holster without adjusting it way out. Easy fix, I just use an old holster that I had laying around and keep adjusted for the airsoft.

[Rob D]

Quote

Manny's website is incorrect.

What MB sells is the HFC (Ho Feng Corp) Model No. HG-185ASB. NOT a WE or a WA. The lower is plastic not metal. The slide is metal. WE and or WA don't make a Glock Airsoft.

http://www.redwolfai...il?prodID=18166

Get a TM, KWA/KSC.

TM, KWA/KSC are better quality, accuracy, reliability, and replacement/upgrade parts are available.

Don't get a HFC.

Just curious. Do you have any first-hand experience with the HFC? Is having a plastic lower a bad thing for a glock clone?

[Woody Allen]

Rob D, on Mar 16 2009, 01:24 PM, said:

Quote

Manny's website is incorrect.

What MB sells is the HFC (Ho Feng Corp) Model No. HG-185ASB. NOT a WE or a WA. The lower is plastic not metal. The slide is metal. WE and or WA don't make a Glock Airsoft.

http://www.redwolfai...il?prodID=18166

Get a TM, KWA/KSC.

TM, KWA/KSC are better quality, accuracy, reliability, and replacement/upgrade parts are available.

Don't get a HFC.

Just curious. Do you have any first-hand experience with the HFC? Is having a plastic lower a bad thing for a glock clone?

No, just that MB's site lists the Glock as having an "aluminum frame." It does not.

It is also an HFC not a WA or WE.

The TM and KWA/KSC's also have plastic frames.

I OWN both an HFC and KWAs , I would buy a KWA/KSC or a TM. Not an HFC. Parts are going to break. http://store.kwausa.com/ to get the needed parts, or the overseas for TM and KWA/KSC parts.

KWA mags are also much better.

Also, you can change out the sights with the KWA-add adjustable even aftermarket with a little tweaking.

The HFC you cannot.

KWA will fit a Bladetech Holster. The HFC will not without extensive mods to the gun or holster.

Try and find replacement parts for the HFC--good luck. If you shoot it enough it will end up where mine is, in the broken parts bin.

This post has been edited by Woody Allen: 16 March 2009 - 06:27 PM

[Bill Nesbitt]

The G-17 airsoft I got from Manny runs great.

The trigger is a little lighter than my real G-17 but close enough to use for indoor practice.

[kevin c]

Whatever brand Glock airsoft Manny sent me this winter (in exchange for a certificate I got), I can tell you this much about it:

It has a metal (aluminum?) slide and a plastic receiver.

It fits fine in my DOH, which is set for my 17 and 34. If anything it's a bit loose.

It groups about 2" at 25 feet, which is as far as I can go indoors.

The trigger is pretty much as Rob D describes it.

The sights are fixed and POI is off for POA. The only way I could fix that was to file the front sight.

Manny replaced the unit when I noted the problem with the sights, and replaced a spare mag I ordered that had loose feed lips, no questions asked.

The gun has run flawlessly since then.

Manny's unit is less expensive than many, and his service and reputation are great. That being said, there probably are higher quality Glock airsofts available. I think I got one that works for me.

[ddd727]

I have been very happy with a KWA g23, I use propane w/silicon oil instead of green gas. Very cost effiective. Plus the full auto mode is fun with the kids. Size and weight similar to my Glock 19 or 23 and perfect for working with the wife who is new to shooting. Lets us train while the kids are napping upstairs. Over all a great training tool when you are to busy to spend a couple hours at the range.

[kevin c]

I should add that I don't do reloading drills with the mags. They're much heavier than real mags, and have plastic feed lips that I don't think would stand up to being dropped or slammed into the magwell on a less than perfect reload, not to mention possible drop damage to the reservoir or the gas port on the bottom of the unit.

[rupie]

can you mount c-mores or aim points on airsoft glocks?

[Rob D]

rupie, on May 1 2009, 11:57 PM, said:

can you mount c-mores or aim points on airsoft glocks?

I've never seen it done, but the accessory rail looks to be the correct dimensions. I bet you could get the Mako optic mount to fit with a little modification. I'll measure the rail against the actual glock when I get home tonight and let you know.

[MemphisMechanic]

rupie, on May 1 2009, 10:57 PM, said:

can you mount c-mores or aim points on airsoft glocks?

The rail is probably the correct dimensions, according to my calipers. But I think it's *TOO LOW*. I'll try to remember to mount a TLR-1 weaponlight on it tomorrow, and let you know if it passes that basic test.

The reason a KSC G17 doesn't fit a good holster, is height. Bottom-dustcover to top-of-slide is a greater distance than on a real pistol. Which should be a bit of a problem with a real optic mount. Also, my G17 doesn't have a locking block pin, just a trigger pin (2-pin gun with finger grooves? Whoops! They missed that little detail when copying the real deal). And I don't know if the trigger pin is in the right spot.

Someone got an old mount lying around? If you wanna ship it both ways, I'll try it. But I have serious doubts.

Oh. Here you go guys. Very first attempt at a basic draw drill, and a quickie stage out back. Enjoy.

VIDEO:
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=gOUFlAH8-go

This post has been edited by MemphisMechanic: 19 May 2009 - 08:55 PM

[kamikaze1a]

WOW! Those bb's puch through IPSC targets? Cool! I need one I think...and thanks all for posts!

[sfpmb]

I have put about 20,000 bb's through my KSC G17. You will need to learn some basic care items but it eats everything like my production 34.

garage training with my g17 airsoft

The trigger is similiar to a stock glock but radically different than my production gun which has been tweaked.

[MemphisMechanic]

kamikaze1a, on May 23 2009, 08:13 PM, said:

WOW! Those bb's puch through IPSC targets? Cool! I need one I think...and thanks all for posts!

Yes. They go through IPSC/IDPA targets with enough force to still dent drywall afterwards. Hang a towel off the back of the target with clothespins (like a cape) and it'll stop the BBs, though. In that video, I had a cardboard box from a case of copy paper I stuffed with old towels behind the target.

I've reused plenty of BBs *IF* they were caught by a towel, and only went through cardboard. If they hit something hard enough that they might've deformed or chipped, don't reload them.

This post has been edited by MemphisMechanic: 23 May 2009 - 08:36 PM

[kamikaze1a]

Thanks for all the info! I will begin my search for my new training aid...

Besides Manny, where else carries those better quality airsoft guns? And offer good service?

[MemphisMechanic]

Mine came from www.Airsplat.com

Ironically enough, Manny's choice in Glocks (the HFC brand) is widely regarded among the teenage punks they're marketed toward, to be at the bottom end of the quality spectrum. And a couple of posts here and on other forums brought forth several competitive shooters who have broken one. So, although Manny's WE-brand 1911 pistols are supposed to be great, I'd pass on his Glock.

A buddy just bought a WE Hi-Capa 5.1, so I might get to play with it tomorrow night.

I bought the KSC G17, five thousand black BBs (that's important - the white ones are like tracers in flight), and an adapter to fill the gun with $3 Coleman camp stove propane bottles from Walmart... I got all that for about $50 from airsplat.

I'm still on the hunt for a second magazine. They're out of stock everywhere, and I refuse to spend $40 on the ones that punk is selling on eBay.

Here's some more video that'll make you want one even more: Steel challenge
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=-_fdgmSwKAg
http://www.youtube.c...s...=PL&index=6

This post has been edited by MemphisMechanic: 25 May 2009 - 02:00 PM

[kamikaze1a]

Thanks for the links! So KSC and KWA is the same? Are the trigger guards the same as a real Glock? I have a CR Speed that uses the trigger guard as an attachment spot... Looks pretty good! And they have heavier bb's too! Thanks!!!

This post has been edited by kamikaze1a: 25 May 2009 - 03:56 PM

[sfpmb]

From what I have been told is that they are the same. My KSC fits in my hand and my holster perfectly. Even the front sight articles and comments from Pres MV say it clearly, buy quality so you are are not disapointed and don't use the tool. TM and KSC seem to be the most regarded for Glocks but there appears to be a problem with the retailers in the US stocking or getting more, you may need to look toward the HK dealers if you cannot find in US.

[MemphisMechanic]

I wouldn't think there would be a problem fitting the airsoft glock to a race holster. The KSC/KWA (and the two are virtually identical) will not fit a good conventional holster, but they'll fit an uncle mikes.

I haven't taken a pair of calipers to the trigger guard, but it looks identical in profile to the factory one.

[gamingoddess]

Just bought myself a whole KSC Glock set with 2 extra magazines today and boy are they fun to shoot! I'm planning to get some mini airsoft steel to use in our backyard. The airsoft gun fits fine in my Blackhawk Serpa holster, though it is a little tight. I didn't realize just how little recoil these guns had until now...I mean zero zip nada. I did have some problems getting it to work first, but just had to adjust the position of the guide rod/recoil spring and sand the inside of the slide a little bit, it's been running great after that. The trigger is very light, much lighter than my production or limited triggers.

One thing that I noticed though, when I start getting into the 20-30 foot range and am nearing the end of the magazine, the BBs are flying about 1/2 to 1 inch to the left of the target. Anyone have any recommendations for this? I was thinking it was because the amount of gas pressure was decreasing or something.

I can't wait to set up my little playground, sure beats dryfiring the entire time!

[sfpmb]

This is a variable with airsoft and it may have alot to do with the tempature of the magazine. In warm weather it is common for me to be able to shoot a mag and 1/2 before function starts going downhill. As the gas expands it chills the magazine. As the magazine becomes colder and colder the gas expands less and less equalling less power to project the bb. This may be what you are experiencing. To combat this I use several different magazines in colder weather during training. After I shoot one magazine, I give it a rest and put it in my pocket (it does warm it alittle). I grab another magazine and work with it. I repeat and by the time I get back to my first one it is ready to go again.

The KSC also comes with something termed hop-up which when adjusted, changes the travel pattern of the bb. Check this as well.

Hope this helps

[gamingoddess]

sfpmb, on Jun 4 2009, 09:04 PM, said:

The KSC also comes with something termed hop-up which when adjusted, changes the travel pattern of the bb. Check this as well.

You know, all this time I was wondering what that tool was that was included with the G17. All I knew is that it was called a hop-up tool. I'll see if that helps, thanks!