[bkeeler]

I have been going over some videos of me and I think I need to be quicker getting to the gun and getting it out of the holster on the draw.

What do you think?

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=TA_h2d0R_JM

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=fMFJZl1mgtk

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=7On_uu7X_EI

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=xdllsbS3mU4

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=0p5NfwJgztc

Thanks

BK

This post has been edited by bkeeler: 10 March 2009 - 08:20 AM

[Limitless13]

Do you happen to know any of your draw times from this weekend? I noticed in the videos that the camera guy was on your right side. I try to have at least one or two video where I can capture some my shot times. I'm certainly no one to give anyone advice on speeding up the draw at this point because I feel like mine is sucking in the dirt, but at least being able to capture on video some "match draws" has helped me to set proper goals.

*Edited* I didn't watch your video from smoke and hope when I wrote the original.

S&H draws
string 1: 1.14
string 2: 1.11
string 3: 1.17
string 4: 1.19
string 5: 1.24

Excluding the last string on S/H you hover very close to a roughly 1.15 draw. Overall, you're consistent which is good. I do know on S/H this weekend Tim K. had a draw around .78 but he's a madman. I believe my fastest on that stage was around .94. For that one in particular, I don't know if you are taking a full sight picture, but I can tell you that I am not at all. I am completely point shooting the first target and as I progress from target to target, I focus more and more on the FS until the stop plate. But again, I don't feel that I can give complete advice here.

Kevin

This post has been edited by Limitless13: 10 March 2009 - 08:24 AM

[bkeeler]

Kevin

Look at the last video Smoke & Hope they are around 1.11-1.15 give or take a little.

On Double Trouble they are around 1.07-1.11 give or take a little.

Draws from Blade-Tech DOH Holster.

Thanks
BK

[bkeeler]

I added Double Trouble above you can see some of the times there.

BK

[steel1212]

1 second from kydex to steel is pretty sporty. Yeah, some GMs/M are going to get sub that but its still pretty good under match conditions in my opinion.

[heavy metal]

Those times r fast. If u want to b faster, 2 things more practice and time.

[bkeeler]

Limitless13, on Mar 10 2009, 08:13 AM, said:

Do you happen to know any of your draw times from this weekend? I noticed in the videos that the camera guy was on your right side. I try to have at least one or two video where I can capture some my shot times. I'm certainly no one to give anyone advice on speeding up the draw at this point because I feel like mine is sucking in the dirt, but at least being able to capture on video some "match draws" has helped me to set proper goals.

*Edited* I didn't watch your video from smoke and hope when I wrote the original.

S&H draws
string 1: 1.14
string 2: 1.11
string 3: 1.17
string 4: 1.19
string 5: 1.24

Excluding the last string on S/H you hover very close to a roughly 1.15 draw. Overall, you're consistent which is good. I do know on S/H this weekend Tim K. had a draw around .78 but he's a madman. I believe my fastest on that stage was around .94. For that one in particular, I don't know if you are taking a full sight picture, but I can tell you that I am not at all. I am completely point shooting the first target and as I progress from target to target, I focus more and more on the FS until the stop plate. But again, I don't feel that I can give complete advice here.

Kevin

Thanks Kevin.

FWIW I am drawing from a Kydex holster not a race holster.

BK

[Storm52]

BK: You were much smoother with your draws in Down Time - 2nd video. From my very untrained eye, the transition from hand on grip to upward movement appears as a brief delay in some, not all, instances as if you were shoving slightly down on the rig then drawing. I really am not one to critique as you are very consistant and I am a mere n00b.

Steve

[JThompson]

Looks pretty good to me... might think about a slightly wider stance.

[bkeeler]

JThompson, on Mar 10 2009, 09:56 AM, said:

Looks pretty good to me... might think about a slightly wider stance.

JThompson

Never thought about that. I will give it a try. How wide should I be? I feel comfortable where I am at so I did not even give that a thought.

Thanks

BK

[Flexmoney]

BK,

I was going to mention something from you Zig-Zag video.

You looked pretty smooth and solid there, but a bit lackadaisicalabout getting to the gun.

[bkeeler]

Flexmoney, on Mar 10 2009, 10:45 AM, said:

BK,

I was going to mention something from you Zig-Zag video.

You looked pretty smooth and solid there, but a bit lackadaisicalabout getting to the gun.

That is what I thought too Flex.

What about making my stance wider as JThompson mentioned? How wide should it be?

Thanks to All keep it coming.

BK

This post has been edited by bkeeler: 10 March 2009 - 09:59 AM

[Neomet]

Look good to me. It was funny, I just pulled up the vid and went "Hey, that's ARPC!"

[Limitless13]

From what Max Michel told me at his class our stance should be just wide enough so that it's just barely uncomfortable. Granted though, I'm tall and lanky. For me, I know it makes a big difference when I widen out and get behind the gun though versus when I relax too much and am tall and straight.

In the defensive tactics side of the world we always use the "What's gets knocked down first? A tall skinny candle or a short fat one?"

Kevin

[Flexmoney]

What is important to me on stance is:

- knees bent
- toes (& knees) pointed outside of my outside targets
- shoulders forward
- weight good on the feet


Basically, a somewhat aggressive... athletic...stance.

[Flexmoney]

I don't see any reason not to use your front sight. It should be right there, plain as day, as you extend out to the target.

You don't need to wait around to stare at it or anything. Presentation should be such that it is right there for you. (practice the presentation with th eyes closed...do some super slo-mo work...etc.)

I would imagine you could take a tenth or two off your draw with the DOH holster...with some dedication. (a tenth a draw would be 2 seconds off your total match time)

[bkeeler]

Flexmoney, on Mar 10 2009, 12:33 PM, said:

I don't see any reason not to use your front sight. It should be right there, plain as day, as you extend out to the target.

You don't need to wait around to stare at it or anything. Presentation should be such that it is right there for you. (practice the presentation with th eyes closed...do some super slo-mo work...etc.)

I would imagine you could take a tenth or two off your draw with the DOH holster...with some dedication. (a tenth a draw would be 2 seconds off your total match time)

I do use the front sight been down that road.

Yeah I do have to find it sometimes,the front sight is not always there 100%. I will work on this for sure.

I am working on getting the draw time down too.

I am also going to make my stance a little wider. I tried it out just standing here it felt more stable.(as everyone looks at me and wonders what the hell I am doing. (I am at work)

Thanks!!!!!!

BK

[Limitless13]

A DOH in my opinion would certainly help because you can see your shoulder raise as it's coming to the gun. Any minimized movement is good. In regards to what Flex said, I know I didn't use my sights on the draw shot on S/H and Down Time because the targets are SO big and SO close that I didn't really start to focus until I made the transition to either the bonus plate or to the opposite set of steel. But again, that's just me being me.

[bkeeler]

Limitless13, on Mar 10 2009, 01:59 PM, said:

A DOH in my opinion would certainly help because you can see your shoulder raise as it's coming to the gun. Any minimized movement is good. In regards to what Flex said, I know I didn't use my sights on the draw shot on S/H and Down Time because the targets are SO big and SO close that I didn't really start to focus until I made the transition to either the bonus plate or to the opposite set of steel. But again, that's just me being me.

I am using a DOH holster. As far as the sights are concerned I have tested this out for myself and have been down that road. Read my range diary post #108.



Thanks

BK

This post has been edited by bkeeler: 10 March 2009 - 01:28 PM

[ExtremeShot]

How'd my draw look? ...I know you were videoing me at one point (which, as I recall, distracted me enough to blow a run).

PS: To answer your question..... You are way too fast. I think you better slow down a little cause you are looking pretty dangerous.

This post has been edited by ExtremeShot: 10 March 2009 - 02:49 PM

[bkeeler]

ExtremeShot, on Mar 10 2009, 03:47 PM, said:

How'd my draw look? ...I know you were videoing me at one point (which, as I recall, distracted me enough to blow a run).

PS: To answer your question..... You are way too fast. I think you better slow down a little cause you are looking pretty dangerous.

Yeah I got the one where you almost threw the gun

I have to put them together I will let you know when they are up.

BK

[Ridgerunnr]

Your draw is fast for sure..same way i used to do it. I shaved off some time though. I haven't shot to steel on draw. My fastest time is Draw from surrender for an A hit at 10 feet is .76 ..From DOH rig.
I moved my right elbow to be more above my gun. That way all I have to do is drop my hand to my gun. No elbow movement
hardly at all. Before that my draw had minor " sweep" to it much like yours appears to..I ve only got a year in this game so take that for what its worth

[benos]

bkeeler, on Mar 10 2009, 05:23 AM, said:

I have been going over some videos of me and I think I need to be quicker getting to the gun and getting it out of the holster on the draw.

What do you think?

Overall your speed and technique are not bad. You might try a long term experiment by changing you starting arm position slightly. Start with your elbows farther to the rear so your gun hand is more over the top of the pistol, not quite so far out in front. Then your shoulder kinda flings your forearm and hand right down to the gun, which will result in much less overall movement in your upper arm (before you get to the gun). It will feel different (weird) at first, but work with it in dry fire for a month or two.

Also, not relating to the draw, I noticed you have a similar bad habit that I had - hardly no follow through at all on the last shot. As soon as the shot goes off the gun's coming down - hit or miss. That cost me the match win at the Steel Challenge one year. I lost the match by .34 second, and had about a .6 - .7 recovery shot on the last target in the match. I dropped the gun after missing the last target. That sucked.
be

[bkeeler]

benos, on Mar 10 2009, 10:55 PM, said:

bkeeler, on Mar 10 2009, 05:23 AM, said:

I have been going over some videos of me and I think I need to be quicker getting to the gun and getting it out of the holster on the draw.

What do you think?

Overall your speed and technique are not bad. You might try a long term experiment by changing you starting arm position slightly. Start with your elbows farther to the rear so your gun hand is more over the top of the pistol, not quite so far out in front. Then your shoulder kinda flings your forearm and hand right down to the gun, which will result in much less overall movement in your upper arm (before you get to the gun). It will feel different (weird) at first, but work with it in dry fire for a month or two.

Also, not relating to the draw, I noticed you have a similar bad habit that I had - hardly no follow through at all on the last shot. As soon as the shot goes off the gun's coming down - hit or miss. That cost me the match win at the Steel Challenge one year. I lost the match by .34 second, and had about a .6 - .7 recovery shot on the last target in the match. I dropped the gun after missing the last target. That sucked.
be

Brian,

Never thought about that. I will give the arm position a try and get it grained in in dry fire.

I have been rushing the shots on the stop plates which is killing my times. I will be working on the follow through too.

This forum is the best. I can critique myself all day from the video and not find what you guys have found for me.

I think I am at the point in my shooting that it is just little things that will save time.

What do you think about how wide my stance is? Should it be wider? I did try a little wider stance in dry fire last night and it did seem to be a little more stable. Just wanted to know your thoughts.

Back to training.

Thanks for all the help.

BK

This post has been edited by bkeeler: 11 March 2009 - 05:55 AM

[bkeeler]

I tried the technique that Brian suggested above 2 different ways.

In the video below the first two clips I had my hands higher above my shoulders than the last two clips. I think I will be going with the hands higher with my forearm straighter it seems to be less movement and is straighter getting to the gun. I don't think this change is going to take long to adjust to it felt weird at first but I got used to it pretty quick. I will continue this in dry fire and hopefully this will cut some time in the draw.(which I think it will sure is a lot less movement and no stress on my elbow getting to the gun)

Feel free to comment on the new technique.(Brian, I think this is how you explained it above so if I am wrong or need to change anything please let me know)

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=7xu95Da_QGU


Thanks again to everyone.

BK