[Hack]

Is it okay to use magnum small pistol primers in .223 reloads?

Seeing how there's no small rifle primers anywhere, I'm wondering if anyone has ever used magnum small pistol primers in .223 reloads?

Hack

[mscott]

NO

[Tom S.]

Double on that NO!

Pistol primers are made from thinner material and are not made to withstand rifle pressures.

[Sherwyn]

Hack, on Mar 5 2009, 10:01 PM, said:

Is it okay to use magnum small pistol primers in .223 reloads?

Seeing how there's no small rifle primers anywhere, I'm wondering if anyone has ever used magnum small pistol primers in .223 reloads?

Hack

During the last primer shortage. I was told by Federal that their small pistol magnum primer and small rifle primers are the same in different packaging.

Sherwyn

[Hack]

Sherwyn, on Mar 6 2009, 08:05 AM, said:

Hack, on Mar 5 2009, 10:01 PM, said:

Is it okay to use magnum small pistol primers in .223 reloads?

Seeing how there's no small rifle primers anywhere, I'm wondering if anyone has ever used magnum small pistol primers in .223 reloads?

Hack

During the last primer shortage. I was told by Federal that their small pistol magnum primer and small rifle primers are the same in different packaging.

Sherwyn

WOW, I didn't know that.

Thanks
Hack

[AlamoShooter]

I read the same thing in several different places.
The small rifle primer is not hotter than a Small pistole primer.
the cup hardness in a small mag pistol primer is same hardness as a small rifle primer.

the hotter small mag primer is going to flash hotter so I am reducing the powder charge with the small mag primer in the 223.
Over-thinking underachieving is what I do best

Edit to add , !I don't know! It does not seam smart to do it. the hotter primer at the least will cause a pressure spike in the chamber before the bolt unlocks.
I have to admit I am going to try it for the same reason = I don't have Small Rifle primers.
I have 20 rounds loaded to try Saturday I am going to separate each piece of brass and put it in the case check gager after I shoot it.

This post has been edited by AlamoShooter: 06 March 2009 - 10:13 AM

[Hack]

I want to know if it is still true, so . . . .

I just called Federal (1 800 322 2342, Option 4) and left a voicemail message, they're supposed to call me back.

Then I went online at
http://www.federalpr...contact_us.aspx
And am awaiting their reply.

I'll let you all know when I know.

Hack

[GentlemanJim]

My knee jerk reaction to the question would be a resounding NO

But if this info is true...I would really like to know.
Jim

[Hack]

Okay, Gary from Federal called me back.

He said NO, I should not use anything in 223 reloads except small rifle or mag small rifle primers - and definitely not small pistol primers of any kind.

He said the risk of slam fires and/or the risk of piercing the thin skin of a small pistol primer is why.

So, like many of you told me, it's a resounding "NO" to using small magnum pistol primers in 223 reloads.

He didn't say anything about reduced loads and I didn't ask. If you want to pursue it, the Federal's phone number is above this reply.

Thought I'd let you all know.

Hack

[Sherwyn]

Hack, on Mar 6 2009, 06:40 PM, said:

Okay, Gary from Federal called me back.

He said NO, I should not use anything in 223 reloads except small rifle or mag small rifle primers - and definitely not small pistol primers of any kind.

He said the risk of slam fires and/or the risk of piercing the thin skin of a small pistol primer is why.

So, like many of you told me, it's a resounding "NO" to using small magnum pistol primers in 223 reloads.

He didn't say anything about reduced loads and I didn't ask. If you want to pursue it, the Federal's phone number is above this reply.

Thought I'd let you all know.

Hack

Guess it doesn't really surprise me. When they told me then, I tested Win small rifle vs Fed small pistol mag in 175 PF 38 super loads, could not tell any difference in velocity and fired primer apperance was better with the Fed...I know not a good indicator.
But I don't think I ever loaded any in 223.

Some guys may also remember that Winchester said their primers didn't change when they went from white box to blue box packaging.

So - for me bottom line is do your own testing.

Sherwyn

[Hack]

Sherwyn, on Mar 6 2009, 07:58 PM, said:

Hack, on Mar 6 2009, 06:40 PM, said:

Okay, Gary from Federal called me back.

He said NO, I should not use anything in 223 reloads except small rifle or mag small rifle primers - and definitely not small pistol primers of any kind.

He said the risk of slam fires and/or the risk of piercing the thin skin of a small pistol primer is why.

So, like many of you told me, it's a resounding "NO" to using small magnum pistol primers in 223 reloads.

He didn't say anything about reduced loads and I didn't ask. If you want to pursue it, the Federal's phone number is above this reply.

Thought I'd let you all know.

Hack

Guess it doesn't really surprise me. When they told me then, I tested Win small rifle vs Fed small pistol mag in 175 PF 38 super loads, could not tell any difference in velocity and fired primer apperance was better with the Fed...I know not a good indicator.
But I don't think I ever loaded any in 223.

Some guys may also remember that Winchester said their primers didn't change when they went from white box to blue box packaging.

So - for me bottom line is do your own testing.

Sherwyn

I don't think you were wrong about your 38 super loads.

I came to understand that one could use small rifle primers in pistol reloads, but no vice versa.

Hack

This post has been edited by Hack: 07 March 2009 - 12:46 AM

[mikeone]

Is this in an AR or a bolt?

[Hack]

mikeone, on Mar 7 2009, 05:08 AM, said:

Is this in an AR or a bolt?

I asked it specifically about an AR, but I guess it could apply to a bolt.

Hack

[G-ManBart]

Hack, on Mar 7 2009, 07:18 AM, said:

mikeone, on Mar 7 2009, 05:08 AM, said:

Is this in an AR or a bolt?

I asked it specifically about an AR, but I guess it could apply to a bolt.

Hack

I think the answser would be the same, but AR's have a free floating firing pin that hits the primer every time the bolt goes forward...which is why they've come out with harder primers intended for AR ammo.

[AlamoShooter]

OK test are back my Rock River lower with a JP trigger standard bolt -carbine buffer tube with CCI small Pistol Magnum primers Doubled 3 shots out of 5 in two separate mags.
The first mag had 55 MG with 26 gr of BLC2 3 doubles out of five rounds in the mag the second mag was hotter with a 75 gr & 26 BLC2 = past the book. = first round was OK last four went with slam fire.
I have the brass separate and will go over it later.
DON'T DO IT !

I will not do that again well I won't tell if I do

[mscott]

Cool, now we know for sure that it is a bad idea.

[shooterready]

It's OK to do it if you just load one at a time

Kidding of course!

[G-ManBart]

AlamoShooter, on Mar 8 2009, 12:33 AM, said:

OK test are back my Rock River lower with a JP trigger standard bolt -carbine buffer tube with CCI small Pistol Magnum primers Doubled 3 shots out of 5 in two separate mags.
The first mag had 55 MG with 26 gr of BLC2 3 doubles out of five rounds in the mag the second mag was hotter with a 75 gr & 26 BLC2 = past the book. = first round was OK last four went with slam fire.
I have the brass separate and will go over it later.
DON'T DO IT !

I will not do that again well I won't tell if I do

So now we know how to make an AR and open bolt full-auto without changing any parts

[XRe]

G-ManBart, on Mar 8 2009, 11:53 AM, said:

So now we know how to make an AR and open bolt full-auto without changing any parts

One small issue... once it starts going... you can't stop it until it comes up for air on its own

[G-ManBart]

XRe, on Mar 8 2009, 12:13 PM, said:

G-ManBart, on Mar 8 2009, 11:53 AM, said:

So now we know how to make an AR and open bolt full-auto without changing any parts

One small issue... once it starts going... you can't stop it until it comes up for air on its own

Details, details.....what could possibly go wrong with that plan? You can always just hit the mag release or push the bolt catch

[TomMcC]

G-ManBart, on Mar 8 2009, 04:41 PM, said:

XRe, on Mar 8 2009, 12:13 PM, said:

G-ManBart, on Mar 8 2009, 11:53 AM, said:

So now we know how to make an AR and open bolt full-auto without changing any parts

One small issue... once it starts going... you can't stop it until it comes up for air on its own

Details, details.....what could possibly go wrong with that plan? You can always just hit the mag release or push the bolt catch

I once used Rem 6s (made for the 22 Hornet) for my .223s out of ignorance. The primers were pierced, and severly pitted the bolt around the firing pin ( AR-15 ), ruining the bolt.

[AlamoShooter]

G-ManBart, on Mar 8 2009, 05:41 PM, said:

XRe, on Mar 8 2009, 12:13 PM, said:

G-ManBart, on Mar 8 2009, 11:53 AM, said:

So now we know how to make an AR and open bolt full-auto without changing any parts

One small issue... once it starts going... you can't stop it until it comes up for air on its own

Details, details.....what could possibly go wrong with that plan? You can always just hit the mag release or push the bolt catch

Not all of them doubled works out to 60%

[spd522]

Just load a pistol primer load every other round and have your double taps on demand, at least 60% of the time..........


Craig

[Lebayer]

Hack, on Mar 5 2009, 09:01 PM, said:

Is it okay to use magnum small pistol primers in .223 reloads?

Seeing how there's no small rifle primers anywhere, I'm wondering if anyone has ever used magnum small pistol primers in .223 reloads?

Hack

Well, I apologize for being slow to enter the discussion. I too had heard that Federal Small Pistol Magnum primers were the same as Federal Small Rifle, so I loaded some .223 for an AR, using the pistol magnum primers. I've shot several hundred, at a consistent velocity of 3100 fps, and have had no trouble. No doubling - although that used to happen a lot with a McCormick trigger, whatever the ammo! - no piercing, no flattening, no nuttin. I used 25.7 gr of TAC in the load. Once Fed Small Rifle primers are readily available, I'll quit using the pistol primers but so far, so good...

[Steel Shootist]

Sheesh, now you guys have me kind of concerned. I just loaded up 1000 with Federal Small Rifle Match Primers. I know that Federal's Match grade pistol primers are way softer cups than regular Winchester cups. Should I worry about these Match Rifle primers being soft? I've yet to shoot any through my AR...but that will all change next week. I'll try and update with the results.