[doc540]

As I've been reading through discussions here, the "pause" seems to be a fundamental and recurring theme both in shooting and living.

It seems related (similar but not the same) to this pause:

"Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom. Frankl

So, in the "simulus/response" dynamic if the amateur's response becomes his choice (effort) to do it right, and the professional's (effortless) choice is to do it until he can't do it wrong (it has become effortless) could the "pause" become the quintessential "pause that refreshes"?

Could it be a state of present-moment mindfulness that simply "is" without intention, projection, or attraction, the "point of balance" on the Jungian seesaw?

This post has been edited by doc540: 27 February 2009 - 07:26 AM

[benos]

doc540, on Feb 27 2009, 07:00 AM, said:

Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom. Frankl

Ahh... the pause. Daily I'm improving everything I do by bringing a slight pause into more and more things I do. Right at the beginning of various acts.

But for me it's not so much like it creates the power to "choose"; it's more like it creates a space for my body-mind to make the best choice. There's no conscious choosing at all.

The pause is a "habit-interupter."
be

[VegasOPM]

That was a trick I learned for public speaking. A 1 second pause allows you to focus and gives more weight to the words (pay attention to Obama when he is speaking). It does help in life too. Rarely does a stimulus require a sub 1 second response, but quite often that extra second gives more surety to your actions.

After the buzzer however, a 1 sec pause is a lifetime.

[doc540]

benos, on Feb 27 2009, 06:26 PM, said:

doc540, on Feb 27 2009, 07:00 AM, said:

Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom. Frankl

Ahh... the pause. Daily I'm improving everything I do by bringing a slight pause into more and more things I do. Right at the beginning of various acts.

But for me it's not so much like it creates the power to "choose"; it's more like it creates a space for my body-mind to make the best choice. There's no conscious choosing at all.

The pause is a "habit-interupter."
be

Yes, be, that's I why was careful to describe it as "similar" and "not the same" (although it very well may be).

Of course, Frankl's context was how one responds to adversity. He says these situations give us the opportunity to choose to be victims or to be empowered, free "growers".

And, like the "professional who practices it until he can't do it wrong", it sounds like you are saying you have developed the mental habit (through effort and repetition), the "unconscious doing", of making "best choices". Because you are becoming ever more aware, the pause has become a dynamic of what you routinely "do"? And in your awareness/centeredness more often than before, you are simply making the best choices? Am I understanding what you meant?

And Jung, if I understand him clearly, proposes that a man must hold in balance the tension between his "badness" (darkness/victimization) and his "goodness" (goldenness/freedom to assert his will).

Perhaps this "balancing point" is similar to the pause as it becomes the "time", the "place" of balance, centeredness, integration, oneness, mirror of holiness. It's the place of our "free will".

I'm still sitting in this concept of the "pause", and while reading through this site the concept appeared to me as a familiar face in a crowd, someone I could just swear that I had met before.

And, Vegas, when speaking or teaching it becomes a powerful dynamic of "pacing". It's similar to the "groove" or rhythm of music. Sometimes you can play the exact same notes to no effect, but when it's "in the groove" people recognize it and connect on a deep level of understanding.

Debussey expressed it like this: "Music is the silence between the notes"
And Schnabel: "The notes I handle no better than many pianists. But the pauses between the notes - ah, that is where the art resides!"

And thanks for the discussion.

This post has been edited by doc540: 28 February 2009 - 10:23 AM

[Sam]

I really like Brian's idea of the "habit interrupter". The next time I find myself shooting in a cadence, I'm going to call on that one.

Like most people, my mind loves to race ahead of me. I first became aware of the value of the "pause" while shooting plate racks. I used to consider the pause to be an actual pause, but I have come to see it more recently as steadfastness. A commitment to remaining focused. Overtly, the prize can be the plate falling, or an impressively low time at the end of the run. But the real prize, no one sees. The ability to remain focused, from somewhere deep inside one's self, while the adrenalin is coursing and all the marbles are in play, is infinitely more rewarding than the outcome of the shooting. The outcome starts to fade as soon as the match is over. The focus can remain ever-present.

[Duane Thomas]

So, to take this to the level of external stimulus at it relates to our reaction, would "the pause" be related to the idea of having the front sight be the determinant of how, and when, and to what speed, and with what level of sight alignment and focus, we shoot? Is "the pause" related to, or the same, as that level of detached but highly focused awareness that allows our maximum performance? Is it related to watching the front sight to engage the conscious mind, thus allowing the subconscious mind to run the shooting while our conscious mind monitors the sights? Is it related to the idea that there is nothing magic, per se, about watching the front sight, its primary virtue being that it gives the conscious mind a generally useful job to do that allows it to feel good about itself, enough to get the hell out of the way of the subconscious mind? Would another term for "the pause" being "quieting the conscious mind by whatever means necessary"?

[hk_mtbr]

Very heavy

I will ponder these things in the am driving to the match - good night.

[Ray R.]

Quote

"Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom. Frankl

May be wrong, but I think Frank is talking about moral choices here. Not sure how that applies to competitive shooting where there are no moral choices, only hits and misses.

Quote

Could it be a state of present-moment mindfulness that simply "is" without intention, projection, or attraction, the "point of balance" on the Jungian seesaw?

Jung can have his "seesaw." I'll enjoy good results, dislike bad results, and try to learn from both.

Quote

Debussey expressed it like this: "Music is the silence between the notes"
And Schnabel: "The notes I handle no better than many pianists. But the pauses between the notes - ah, that is where the art resides!"

Quite. Any well practiced pianist can race through a piece like oh, Autumn Leaves. But without the proper timing (pauses, length of notes, etc.) it would be meaningless noise. That's why the pianist practices the PIECE, and doesn't just pound away at the various keys to make singular unconnected notes.

Quote

So, to take this to the level of external stimulus at it relates to our reaction, would "the pause" be related to the idea of having the front sight be the determinant of how, and when, and to what speed, and with what level of sight alignment and focus, we shoot?

A very practical question. Suppose you're shooting a plate rack. Shots one and two are fine-- you see the front sight in alignment falling on the plates just right, and the trigger is pressed correctly, and at the right moment. Then on plate no. three you (for whatever reason) lose the front sight. Pause. (You now have a variety of choices-- you can keep right on pulling the trigger praying you'll get lucky, or you can find the front sight, and without lining up the sights snatch at the trigger, or you can use a split second to do it right and get a hit). In other words, during your "pause" you had to make a choice. If you make the proper one you'll have a more hamonious outcome. Hey, even the best, most practiced pianists screw up a piece once in a while. They just cover up the mistake better then an amateur.

Someone said on the "Does time slow down" thread that when he's shooting well, its as if he's watching himself shoot. The more I thought about that, the more sense it made. If we're not consciously aware of what we're doing at some level when we're shooting, how would we enjoy it, and why would we do it?

Quote

So, in the "simulus/response" dynamic if the amateur's response becomes his choice (effort) to do it right, and the professional's (effortless) choice is to do it until he can't do it wrong (it has become effortless) could the "pause" become the quintessential "pause that refreshes"?

In all sports, even the most highly paid athletes have some of the amateur's view of things. As Brooks Robinson (Hall of Fame 3rd baseman) said: The owners think they are getting the best of the players, but what they don't know is that we would have played for nothing. Point is, that once you become a total professional, what you're doing is just another job. Not much fun in that, and then we might need a "pause that refreshes."

[Sam]

Quote

Is "the pause" related to, or the same, as that level of detached but highly focused awareness that allows our maximum performance? Is it related to watching the front sight to engage the conscious mind, thus allowing the subconscious mind to run the shooting while our conscious mind monitors the sights?

Duane, like many folks here, I read Lanny Bassham's excellent book "With Winning in Mind" (Good one to to read Doc) But, due to the way I interpret the world about me, keeping all these "mind states" sorted out is a little like mental juggling for me. As I have mentioned in some posts before, in my own consideration of the topic, I avoid the long accepted terms of "sub-conscious" or "self image" when referring to my mental states. The human mind loves to think that it is in charge and that the world revolves around the mind. So naturally, the "other presence" must be subjugated to the mind. But for decades, the accepted terminology has been "sub-conscious mind."

Through shooting, I have come to see my self as a triad of body, mind, and (spiritual) presence. My mind and body are mortal flesh and my presence is eternal. In presence, there is no concept of time, since in eternity, time has no meaning.

The mind runs on time, so it needs time based ideas, like "pause". If I'm sensing a pause while shooting, then I'm at some level, thinking about it. If I have no sensation of time, only focus, then I have become fully present. When shooting "fully present", my mind and body will respond to my intent (self image?) without questioning which of the three is in charge.

These experiences of becoming fully present, for me, are when time seems to have been distorted. Almost anyone can remain in a state of physical stillness, where only breathing and heartbeat are happening, for some period. Fewer people have learned to remain "mentally still". For me, this stillness allows time to cease also. When mentally still, the real me, call it spirit, presence, sub-conscious Sam, or self-image, is active without competition. There is no inner conflict in this state of being. Body subject to mind, mind subject to spirit. As long as I live in this "mortal coil", I will be subject to aches and pains, time, and disappointments. But, I also have moments where a higher awareness breaks through and I fully understand that this life is not all there is. For me, that is the "pause that refreshes".

[Duane Thomas]

I agree that the focus some people have on terminology - and the hairsplitting over what is the "correct" terminology - can get pretty silly. But if you can bear with me and stick with the common "subconscious mind" terminology for a bit....

I believe that many people dislike, fear and distrust their own subconscious mind. The idea of letting go and trusting their performance to something that seems, to then, so ephemeral, seems frightening, on a basic level like losing control, or losing their very identity. As the president of my IDPA club put it to me: "This whole 'Zen of shooting' thing....I don't like it. I don't even care if it works....I don't like it." What they don't realize is that the subconscious mind is still "us"; it's just a part of us that's much better at multi-tasking, and capable of shooting ever so much better than our conscious mind with its a-to-b-to-c-to-d thought processes.

[doc540]

"pause", yes, but not in a temporal sense

btw: Frankl's context was the "moment" of choice when dealing with life challenges, adversity and, I don't think, he was addressing the morality of our choice. I'm assuming most everyone is familiar with his timeless work, "Man's Search for Meaning" and can appreciate his perspective having lived through the Nazi death camps.

In the temporal/physical/finite world we inevitably experience the stimulus-response dynamic. And in that dynamic if we are conscious, sentient beings there is a "moment" when we choose our response to a stimulus.

It seems to me that as we become more aware/balanced/divine/conscious/"professional" both the "moments" and our "choices" become more fleeting/automatic/integrated/unconscious as we become "unconsciously competent" in the game of living a life of love, selflessness, and accountability.

Our responses become more of "who we are" than "what we do".

This post has been edited by doc540: 01 March 2009 - 03:40 PM

[Ray R.]

Quote

Through shooting, I have come to see my self as a triad of body, mind, and (spiritual) presence.

I gotta say Sam, that you appear to be getting a whole lot more out of shooting then most of us! Not sure about this "triad" business, but its certainly miles ahead of the old Cartesian idea of the seperation of mind and body-- an idea that the Dahli Lama bought into as well. (East meets West in a most unusual place....)

Quote

Our responses become more of "who we are" than "what we do".

Hmm? How about: What we CAN do? Even the most difficult situation offers us choices, and the choice we make determines (to a great extent) "who we are." Our feelings about ourselves are irrelevant.

This post has been edited by Ray R.: 01 March 2009 - 04:48 PM

[doc540]

"Hmm? How about: What we CAN do? Even the most difficult situation offers us choices, and the choice we make determines (to a great extent) "who we are." Our feelings about ourselves irrelevant."

I was approaching it from the angle that, for instance, when a situation offers us a choice, we act with honesty not because we've chose to "act honestly", but because we have "become honest".

And, I agree. Feelings don't enter into the equation...it's simply who we are (have become) rather than what we "do".

[Ray R.]

Quote

I was approaching it from the angle that, for instance, when a situation offers us a choice, we act with honesty not because we've chose to "act honestly", but because we have "become honest".

Sounds like "grace."

But in the end we still make a choice. (Human weakness, free will, and all that kind of stuff we're stuck with). Moral training certainly helps, but perfection is not given us in this world, I'm afraid.

[Sam]

Duane, I agree that many people dislike, fear, and distrust their own subconscious mind. And I think you are really on to something very meaningful here.
The central question might be: What part of us is it that fears giving up control?

I can only speak for myself. In my case, it's my thinking, reasoning, judging, mind. I know very little of Zen, so I can only guess why some folks don't like it. There is always someone who doesn't like something.

Ray, I guess I do get a lot out of shooting. Discussions like this one, for instance. Shooting is enjoyable for me because I truly feel like it is something that I was born to do in the same way that a horse was born to run.

Back to the pause. I was shooting my .45 this afternoon. I decided to consider the "pause". Working with a 10" plate at 25 yards my average time to hit it was about 1.8 from the holster. My average time to miss it was the same. I can clearly remember a time in my training when there was an actual "pause" of about .15 second that could assure me of a hit. But, I'm no longer conscious of the pause and the timer doesn't show it any longer. What I am conscious of, is that my attention is on the sights being properly aligned. If my attention was there, the hit was exactly where I called it. When I missed, I saw exactly where the miss went and knew that my attention had drifted elsewhere, resulting in a premature trigger press. The attention works the trigger finger in this case. So at this stage of my training, I would say that the reason for the pause is to properly focus attention. I still do it, just quicker than I used to. Which is kinda the whole point of practice.

[benos]

doc540, on Feb 28 2009, 08:59 AM, said:

And, like the "professional who practices it until he can't do it wrong", it sounds like you are saying you have developed the mental habit (through effort and repetition), the "unconscious doing", of making "best choices". Because you are becoming ever more aware, the pause has become a dynamic of what you routinely "do"? And in your awareness/centeredness more often than before, you are simply making the best choices? Am I understanding what you meant?

I learned long ago in shooting, that if I mentally paused before firing the first shot after the draw, it dramatically improved my overall performance on the stage without any time loss whatsoever.

I found this from an old post:
Mentally pausing, to me, indicates a moment in which my mind takes a look at itself. Like and awareness check. Since the mind is always thinking about something it's felt as a pause. When you consciously direct your awareness at your own mind the habitually-thinking mind stops. (Or the panic-rushing mind, in the case of an IPSC shooter). To me how it feels to pause is summed up with: Pause just long enough to know that you have paused but not long enough to start thinking.

Practice pausing all day long. Find triggers, like flipping a light switch, reaching for a door, turning a water faucet, answering your phone, or before you begin typing - and pause your way into them.

I'm improving everything I do by pausing just before I begin.

Duane Thomas, on Feb 28 2009, 09:39 PM, said:

So, to take this to the level of external stimulus at it relates to our reaction, would "the pause" be related to the idea of having the front sight be the determinant of how, and when, and to what speed, and with what level of sight alignment and focus, we shoot? Is "the pause" related to, or the same, as that level of detached but highly focused awareness that allows our maximum performance? Is it related to watching the front sight to engage the conscious mind, thus allowing the subconscious mind to run the shooting while our conscious mind monitors the sights? Is it related to the idea that there is nothing magic, per se, about watching the front sight, its primary virtue being that it gives the conscious mind a generally useful job to do that allows it to feel good about itself, enough to get the hell out of the way of the subconscious mind? Would another term for "the pause" being "quieting the conscious mind by whatever means necessary"?

To me what I call pausing is entirely mental. It has nothing to do with pausing to "see something," for example.

Seeing is different. But they're both magical in the sense that wonderful acts and experiences come from them. Pausing starts the magic, and seeing keeps it going.

Sam, on Mar 1 2009, 07:12 PM, said:

I can clearly remember a time in my training when there was an actual "pause" of about .15 second that could assure me of a hit. But, I'm no longer conscious of the pause and the timer doesn't show it any longer.

Nice - that's the good stuff right there.
be

[AlamoShooter]

I can see the pause is in the most important things in our lives. when I say to my wife "I love you" she will pause as she looks in my eyes and in that 1/2 second before she speaks is more love than 1000 words can describe.
The pause holds the love not the words.
1/2 second When my Father opens the door after I have not seen him for a year. When I hear my daughter's voice on the phone.

The pause is the bullet 3/4 way to the target before the slide moves

Thanks for the thread for and reminding me why I read the forum