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250 grain loads for 45 ACP


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#1 Shoes

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 08:10 AM

I 've heard about this load since it showed up in a Dillon Precision article but there was no loading data for this. Does anybody had a load for a 250 grain bullet running 45 ACP?

#2 chirpy

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 09:12 AM

I used to load a heavier .45 bullet for shooting bowling pins. I don't remember the exact weight...might have even been 265 gr. Used it in semi and revo.

FWIW

Richard

PS: Don't remember the load either.

#3 Carlos

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 11:17 AM

There is data in the Lee manual - I think it was using the identical powders HP 38/ winchester 231.
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#4 Shoes

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 02:13 PM

I used to load a heavier .45 bullet for shooting bowling pins. I don't remember the exact weight...might have even been 265 gr. Used it in semi and revo.

FWIW

Richard

PS: Don't remember the load either.

Thanks for the input.

#5 revchuck

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 03:22 PM

Speer's manual has data for up to 260 grain bullets in .45 ACP, IIRC.
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#6 Duane Thomas

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 03:43 PM

I 've heard about this load since it showed up in a Dillon Precision article

I wrote that article! :lol: I'll check my records and post the load data.
Pride and fear are emotions, which hope for an outcome. Outcomes take your attention from the present, where the shooting happens, to the future. It is totally impossible to do anything in the future, because it hasn't happened yet. The key to shooting your best is to be present as the witness of the shooting. Do not judge, do not give yourself anything to live up to. We can only shoot as well as we have trained ourselves to shoot. To try to shoot only induces stress. Be content with your current ability. And accumulate practice to improve that ability. Consolidate, build strength where you feel weakness. We cannot raise our ability until we accept our current limitations. Practice dissolves limitations. Matches simply define where the current limits exist. The game of shooting is all about redefining our limits.
- Sam

Amateurs do it til they get it right. Professionals do it til they can't get it wrong.

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#7 mwx40x40

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 06:28 PM

I will have to check my data , but I have loaded 255 SWC's with Unique, Clays, HS6, and WW571. HS6 loads turned in very good accuracy out of my 625 and will slap a bowling pin pretty good too.

#8 buddy_fuentes

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 09:52 PM

I used a 240 for bowling pins...good dose of WW231. Not stout enough for Bear so bowling pins are the only thing it is good for.

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#9 dillon

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 10:48 AM

The laser Cast bullet manual has loads for the 250 grain lead bullet. I use this for USPSA revo, believe was Titegroup.

#10 Duane Thomas

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 05:07 PM

Here is my load data for 250 and 255-grain .45 Colt bullets loaded into .45 ACP casings. For both bullet weights, the case mouth is crimped into the cannelure on the bullet to give the listed OAL. Getting these loads to cycle in a .45 auto requires going to a very light recoil spring, like 10 pounds. This is no surprise: check the listed velocities and you'll see we've basically turned the .45 ACP into a .455 Webley - the revolver which fires this cartridge, my friend the late Bob Shimek used to call "a gentle ol' punkin' thrower."

In my opinion the 250-grain RNFP is a better choice for "heavy metal" .45 ACP loads than the 255-grain LSWC, only because with the "fat" 255-grain bullet whether or not the action would go into battery, I found, became very dependent on a particular gun's barrel leade (the point just in front of the chamber where the lands angle in slightly). The 255 grain LSWCs chambered and extracted live rounds just fine in my Wilson 1911 and Nighthawk Custom Talon, wouldn't even allow the action to close on a Les Baer, and would chamber BUT loaded rounds were extremely difficult to extract from a Nowlin Match Classic. No such problems with the generously rounded 250-grain stuff.

I got away from using these loads because, for me at least, I felt they gave the gun's cycling a disagreeable glunk-glunk effect, and I alredy had so much muscle memory built up on a .45 with heavier loads I had a serious tendency to pull shots low as I overcompensated for (very light) recoil. Both those problems could, I'm sure, have been overcome with practice.

Anyway, here it is (the notation "Misc-1", "Fed-2", etc. refers to the type of brass I was using, and how many times it had been reloaded; "Fed 150" refers to the Federal Large Pistol Primer; the loads that don't list an ambient temp were shot before I began keeping track of that particular piece of data; with the exception of the Glock 21, all the guns mentioned are 5" barreled 1911s):

250/VihtaVuori N310

Les Baer Ultimate Master, .45 ACP (55 degrees F)
Laser-Cast 250-gr. RNFP/3.1-gr. N310/Misc-1/Fed 150/OAL 1.168" (20 rds)
AV: 671 HI: 687 LO: 653 ES: 33 SD: 8 PF: 167.8

Uselton Arms Classic National Match, .45 ACP (60 degrees F)
Laser-Cast 250-gr. RNFP/3.2-gr. N310/Fed-2/Fed 150/OAL 1.168" (10 rds)
AV: 650 HI: 661 LO: 642 ES: 19 SD: 5 PF: 165.8

Glock 21, .45 ACP (60 degrees F)
Laser-Cast 250-gr. RNFP/3.3-gr. N310/PMC-3/Fed 150/OAL 1.168" (20 rds)
AV: 691 HI: 707 LO: 654 ES: 53 SD: 12 PF: 172.8

Les Baer Ultimate Master, .45 ACP (60 degrees F)
Laser-Cast 250-gr. RNFP/3.3-gr. N310/PMC-3/Fed 150/OAL 1.168" (20 rds)
AV: 695 HI: 708 LO: 682 ES: 26 SD: 7 PF: 173.7

Glock 21, .45 ACP (50 degrees F)
Laser-Cast 250-gr. RNFP/3.4-gr. N310/Win-1/Fed 150/OAL 1.168" (20 rds)
AV: 654 HI: 671 LO: 618 ES: 53 SD: 13 PF: 163.6

Les Baer Ultimate Master, .45 ACP (50 degrees F)
Laser-Cast 250-gr. RNFP/3.4-gr. N310/Win-1/Fed 150/OAL 1.168" (20 rds)
AV: 667 HI: 683 LO: 651 ES: 31 SD: 8 PF: 166.8


255/VihtaVuori N310

Les Baer Ultimate Master, .45 ACP (50 degrees F)
Laser-Cast 255-gr. LSWC/3.4-gr. N310/Misc-1/Fed 150/OAL 1.168" (20 rds)
AV: 730 HI: 750 LO: 717 ES: 32 SD: 7 PF: 182.7


255/Hodgdon Clays

Nighthawk Talon, .45 ACP (55 degrees F)
Laser-Cast 255-gr. LSWC/3.2-gr. Clays/Fed-2/Fed 150/OAL 1.205"
AV: 685 HI: 706 LO: 663 ES: 43 SD: 10 PF: 174.8

Wilson Defensive Combat Pistol, .45 ACP
Laser-Cast 255-gr. LSWC/3.2-gr. Clays/Fed-1/Fed 150/OAL 1.205"
AV: 677 HI: 694 LO: 653 ES: 41 SD: 10 PF: 172.7

Wilson Defensive Combat Pistol, .45 ACP
Laser-Cast 255-gr. LSWC/3.2-gr. Clays/Fed-1/Fed 150/OAL 1.205"
AV: 682 HI: 692 LO: 667 ES: 25 SD: 7 PF: 174.1

Wilson Defensive Combat Pistol, .45 ACP
Laser-Cast 255-gr. LSWC/3.2-gr. Clays/Fed-1/Fed 150/OAL 1.205"
AV: 680 HI: 698 LO: 653 ES: 44 SD: 10 PF: 173.4
Pride and fear are emotions, which hope for an outcome. Outcomes take your attention from the present, where the shooting happens, to the future. It is totally impossible to do anything in the future, because it hasn't happened yet. The key to shooting your best is to be present as the witness of the shooting. Do not judge, do not give yourself anything to live up to. We can only shoot as well as we have trained ourselves to shoot. To try to shoot only induces stress. Be content with your current ability. And accumulate practice to improve that ability. Consolidate, build strength where you feel weakness. We cannot raise our ability until we accept our current limitations. Practice dissolves limitations. Matches simply define where the current limits exist. The game of shooting is all about redefining our limits.
- Sam

Amateurs do it til they get it right. Professionals do it til they can't get it wrong.

"It's not the will to win that matters - everyone has that. It's the will to prepare to win that matters."
- Paul "Bear" Bryant

"The only reason why Everest is the highest mountain ever climbed is because it's the highest. If there was one higher, I bet there'd be people trying to climb it."
- Jack Barnes

#11 G+16

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 01:03 AM

I've always wonder about that load myself, good information to have. thanks :rolleyes:
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#12 Bongo Boy

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 10:33 PM

I know this is an older post, but thanks for the load and performance data just the same. It looks like a great starting point that I hope will work with my P220. I have cast, sized and lubed about 800-900 255 gr bullets out of the Lee round/flat nose mold (#90349), and I have high hopes they'll cycle okay in the Sig with the 15 lb Wolff spring.

I've just read that apparently the faster burning powders, such as Clays, show a pressure curve with increased charges that rises faster than the muzzle velocity, so to speak. My plan, based on the comments above about cycling successfully, is to start at 3.2 gr and if there's reliability problems, increase .1gr until it goes away. I wonder if there's much chance of seeing a pressure problem (and how would I know) before the slide cycles reliably. Looks like an experiment.

To my surprise, my mock-up round measured 1.167" OAL, and the bullet is clearly seated just a tad deep. So, virtually identical to the loads posted above. I'm really curious--with a 250-255 gr flattened round nose bullet and 3.2gr Clays and an OAL of 1.168", do we have any idea of approximately what percentage of the available case volume is occupied by powder? That is, once the bullet is fully seated. Just curious.
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#13 Duane Thomas

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Posted 25 July 2009 - 06:24 PM

I know this is an older post, but thanks for the load and performance data just the same.

Yer welcome. :)

I'd be amazed if this load cycled with a 15-pound recoil spring, but then again I've been amazed before.
Pride and fear are emotions, which hope for an outcome. Outcomes take your attention from the present, where the shooting happens, to the future. It is totally impossible to do anything in the future, because it hasn't happened yet. The key to shooting your best is to be present as the witness of the shooting. Do not judge, do not give yourself anything to live up to. We can only shoot as well as we have trained ourselves to shoot. To try to shoot only induces stress. Be content with your current ability. And accumulate practice to improve that ability. Consolidate, build strength where you feel weakness. We cannot raise our ability until we accept our current limitations. Practice dissolves limitations. Matches simply define where the current limits exist. The game of shooting is all about redefining our limits.
- Sam

Amateurs do it til they get it right. Professionals do it til they can't get it wrong.

"It's not the will to win that matters - everyone has that. It's the will to prepare to win that matters."
- Paul "Bear" Bryant

"The only reason why Everest is the highest mountain ever climbed is because it's the highest. If there was one higher, I bet there'd be people trying to climb it."
- Jack Barnes

#14 Bongo Boy

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Posted 09 August 2009 - 05:50 PM

I know this is an older post, but thanks for the load and performance data just the same.

Yer welcome. :)

I'd be amazed if this load cycled with a 15-pound recoil spring, but then again I've been amazed before.

Since you said you'd be amazed I was fully prepared to be amazed as well, as I guess I was. I have no chrono data, but here's what I loaded:

25 rds with 208 mg (about 3.2gn)
25 rds with 220 mg (about 3.4gn), and
100 rds with 234 mg (about 3.6gn)

All were loaded using Clays, Wolf primers and the Lee 255 gn round flat nose bullet lubed with the red carnauba stuff from the guy on eBay. All rds fired from a Sig P220 Elite Stainless with a Wolff recoil spring rated at 18 lbs (I just now read the rating off the bag).

All of the rounds extracted & ejected except for about 5 that failed to chamber fully--although they all rode up the ramp and in. Most, if not all the failures, as far as I know, occurred with the recoil spring in backwards. The reason this matters is that my recoil guide has a 3 mm long section at the very front that's larger in diameter than the rest of the guide...if the Wolff spring is in with the smaller end at the front of the rod (backwards, IOW), after firing once, the spring won't actually bear on the slide when in battery--it hangs up on this fat section of the guide. Apparently that's enough to just not quite force the round home.

After correcting the spring problem, I didn't see any issues at all. I didn't perceive any difference in the oomph of these loads--they all seemed pretty much equivalent. Unbelievably sweet shooting in the all-stainless Sig.

The one thing I wasn't prepared for was how much smoke the Clays produces! I popped off 10 rapid shots and about choked on the smoke--and this range is superbly ventilated. Don't recall seeing any mention of this anywhere. After all shooting was done, the bore was very clean, I thought, and only showed modest residue build up--no particulates, and I don't think there's any lead in there, either. Definitely looks good enough to not worry about for a match.

Next step: I've loaded 150 rds with about 3.1gn using the Lee auto powder measure thing (all of the above rds were individual measured), and I'll give 'em a test just to ensure I REALLY have no failures with everthing assembled properly and greased up real nice. I LOVE these loads, just love 'em. Thanks for posting these loads. Sweeeeet.

After shooting the 150 rds of handloads from the all-stainless 220, I then loaded up a P220 Compact with standard factory stuff--the first round went off and I thought maybe I had a +P load in that little thing. Wow...whudda difference. A legit side-by-side comparison would have been nice, but I didn't have my stock spring with me for the Elite.

Edited by Bongo Boy, 10 August 2009 - 10:16 AM.

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#15 Bongo Boy

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 03:16 PM

- Just as an interest item, my bullets are weighing in at about 260 gn, +/- 1 gn
- As for the heavy smoke, is it probably the Red Carnauba bullet lube I'm using?
- Another 200 rds today, but of the heavier loads, maybe 3.6 gn. Another 2 to 3 FTFCs (Failure to Fully Chamber), 2 misfires due to primer failure to light up, and one stovepipe/failure to eject.

I'm wondering where to start in troubleshooting here. Seems like a little bit of everything is happening. I have a 16# recoil spring ordered and on the way to manage the lighter loads that are closer to 3.2 gn, and will begin using the Sig barrel as my gauge. It is perfectly possible that a couple of cases made it thru the system without getting in the sizer, and the next big batch will be loaded with Winchester primers vs the Wolf primers, because that's what I have. CCI's are due in a couple of weeks. Brass has been mixed, with Fiocchi, HSM, Federal, Winchester, Winchester Match all in the bag. Probably 90% of the next loads will be Winchester Match, because that's what I have cleaned, sized and primed. This will reduce the variety, at least.

Any other suggestions?

Edited by Bongo Boy, 14 August 2009 - 11:09 AM.

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#16 jmaass

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 05:02 PM

I used to use a bowling pin load with 255gr LSWC using Universal Clays. It chronographed at up to 900 fps (power factor 230) in one gun, and 863 fps (power factor 220) in the other, and the bowling pins cowered.

I shot it from a Clark Custom Heavy Recoil Master 1911 (with a 20-pound recoil spring), and from a S&W 625 with heavy underlug and compensator tricked out by Cylinder & Slide. Both guns were quite managable with the loads, and were very accurate.

These loads were more than a little bit "heftier" than Duane's loads, and I won't be telling anyone what my specific load was. The bullets were S&S and D&J 255gr LSWC. lengths were 1.200". Universal Clays (**NOT** Clays!) seemed a perfect powder for heavy-bullet loads in .45ACP, and the very similar Unique has been used for that purpose for a long while.

Edited by jmaass, 13 August 2009 - 05:03 PM.

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#17 Bongo Boy

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Posted 18 August 2009 - 02:48 PM

Okay, latest update. To the range today with 200 rds, almost entirely 3.2gr of Clays and the 255gr RNFP Lyman bullets. This time, the P220 was set up with a 16 lb recoil spring, binding a bit on the spring guide--far more than you'd want to run routinely.

About 5 outright misfires (Wolf primers). These were not light strikes IMO, and in fact two wouldn't light up even after repeated bashing in DA. The others all touched off on the 2nd try. In addition, 2 stovepipes and maybe 4-5 failure to fully chamber. Not TOO bad, but of course not good enough.

So, that burns up all 1000 of the Wolf primers and I won't be using those again, since I've had so many fail and have had to really reef on the press to seat them. The next lot of 1000 are Winchesters, which basically seem to find their own way to the pockets and seat themselves. After that, 5,000 CCIs are due in at the end of the month and that should be what I'm shooting until the new year.

Here's the overall evaluation as a beginner:

1) Lubrication and sizing wasn't fully grasped until last night, when I actually took the time to adjust the sizing press to stop the bullet in the die a little sooner. This has prevented the over-lubing problems I've had with the previous 1000 bullets...which in turn led to gobs of lube all over the bullet and case and a lot of painstaking work to clean up.

2) In addition, the first 1,000 bullets were cast using a Coleman camp stove, and bullet quality sufferred due to lead being too cool, mold being too cool. With my snazzy new cajun jet burner and dutch oven, bullets are looking beautiful now, and that's helped in the sizer/luber as well. The problem now is wasted time waiting for the sprues to cool...need a second mold so as to alternate between the two on every pour--in fact 3 would be about right, actually.

3) The Lee turret press with the sliding charge bar thingie is simple yet effective, and produces an exceptionally-uniform charge in my experience. Because my needs are simple, I'm able to use one of the standard charges (it's a 49 size hole in the charge bar), and get 3.2 gr to within about .04 gr or less, near as I can measure with my scale, which reads to .02 gr.

4) Excessive smoke was due in large part, I think, to having the lube all over everything even after careful cleanup. With more care taken in the bullets and the lube/sizing process, I'm seeing what I think is a bit less smoke. I wonder if anyone has compared the BAC ('beeswax, Alox, carnauba') lube to the 2500+ lube from the same guy (White Label Lube).

5) The trickler is being returned to Midway, as it is utterly useless to me in this range of loads and life to far too short.

Edited by Bongo Boy, 19 August 2009 - 07:38 AM.

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#18 Bongo Boy

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Posted 19 August 2009 - 07:45 AM

Thanks again, Duane. I owe it all to you and that article. I corrected my last post above--the Lee press is dropping at just under 3.2 gr with the #49 charge bar setting, not 3.1 gr. I'll continue to putz with this load until I either get 100% reliable behavior or I just plain give up entirely.
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#19 Duane Thomas

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 08:06 PM

Yer welcome. :)

Sounds to me like your recoil spring is WAY too heavy for this load. I'm not surprised you're not getting cycle reliability with a 16-pound spring. I went 10 pounds in my 1911 to get reliability. Wolff only produces recoil springs for the P220 down to 14 pounds; not sure if that's light enough to make this load work in a P220 but it's certainly a better bet than the 16-pounder.

http://www.gunspring...sNF.html#Sig220
Pride and fear are emotions, which hope for an outcome. Outcomes take your attention from the present, where the shooting happens, to the future. It is totally impossible to do anything in the future, because it hasn't happened yet. The key to shooting your best is to be present as the witness of the shooting. Do not judge, do not give yourself anything to live up to. We can only shoot as well as we have trained ourselves to shoot. To try to shoot only induces stress. Be content with your current ability. And accumulate practice to improve that ability. Consolidate, build strength where you feel weakness. We cannot raise our ability until we accept our current limitations. Practice dissolves limitations. Matches simply define where the current limits exist. The game of shooting is all about redefining our limits.
- Sam

Amateurs do it til they get it right. Professionals do it til they can't get it wrong.

"It's not the will to win that matters - everyone has that. It's the will to prepare to win that matters."
- Paul "Bear" Bryant

"The only reason why Everest is the highest mountain ever climbed is because it's the highest. If there was one higher, I bet there'd be people trying to climb it."
- Jack Barnes

#20 Bongo Boy

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Posted 25 August 2009 - 11:44 AM

Unfortunately for me, I was sloppy and lazy and too eager to shoot the gun. So, what I have done through this laziness is to shoot a mix of loads using the same spring, shoot with a guide rod not adequately sized for the Wolff springs, have not kept good records or labeling, and have loaded cases that I wasn't 100% certain had been properly sized. All of these I'd like to call 'errors', but none of them are--I knew better, even as a beginner, than to do these things. Lazy and too eager to get to the range--all for naught.

First off, the 16 lb spring I have is irreparably damaged and, while it works fine, it's been telescoped by over-compression. That was probably due to the fact I loaded at least 50 rds with about 3.6 gr of Clays. Last night, while decapping several hundred cases, I noticed a bunch that showed clear signs of high pressure. I'm sure that's what crushed the 16 lb spring.

Secondly, while using the 16 lb spring with the lighter loads (the 3.2 gr loads), I chose to ignore the fact that the spring was unable to freely slide down the guide rod--guide rod being just a tad too big in diameter. While it worked, again, it means the 16 lb spring was seeing a lot of dampening due to the heavy drag over the guide rod. The guide rod even showed a ring or two indented into it.

This is embarassing but I have to expose this sloppiness because otherwise folks might conclude something inherently 'wrong' with the loads themselves, when there's no reason to conclude much of anything at this time.

I have the 14 lb spring on its way, have used up all the Wolf primers, have shot all of the handloads that are NOT 3.2 gr, have turned down the guide rod to properly accomodate the Wolff springs and have changed my loading process to guarantee I don't take any 'shortcuts' just because some of the cases I get are decapped and of course the ones from the range are not. Now, I treat everything the same and know for certain what processing has or has not taken place for all empties.

Duh.
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#21 Bongo Boy

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 04:13 PM

Update

I stretched out the 16 lb spring back to its original length and managed to get the whole thing pretty much back to original condition. Then I installed it and ran 100 rds of the 3.2 gr loads through it with no problems except for two stovepipes, both of which happened to occur on the last round out of the magazine. So, this looked like good news to me.

I then swapped the 16 lb spring out for the new 14 lb spring, but all I had left to shoot was 50 rds that I had loaded with 3.0 gr Clays and bullets that were averaging right at 255 gr. Wow!!! If these loads chrono at an acceptable speed I have found the load of my dreams. All 50 rds popped through the system with no problems of any kind. Good thing, too, since I ran a risk and loaded about 400 rds this way. This is a fantastic load...provided it makes PF.

If in fact the 3.0 gr loads produce the PF then it'll be a 500 rd test session for reliability and failing that, I can see tweaking the Auto-Disk hole until it gives just 3.1 gr*. For now, it looks like the 14 lb spring will work perfectly. I am just thrilled beyond measure to see those sights back on target like I've never seen before. This is cool.

*By this I mean that the No. 43 hole in the Auto-Disk produces Clays loads that are something like 2.9 grains. So, I rolled up a strip of 300 grit sandpaper and carefully opened up the hole until I reliably got 3.03 gr each and every time. Tedious, but it sure produces a repeatable charge.

Edited by Bongo Boy, 30 August 2009 - 07:05 PM.

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USPSA A64336


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#22 Bongo Boy

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Posted 05 September 2009 - 03:27 PM

About 150 rds of the 255 gr bullets and 3.0 gr Clays today at the range, with no malfunctions using the 14 lb spring. Velocities ranged, for sure, between 670 and 690...but may have dropped as low as the high 640s. Working with my new chrono, I managed to toast all the data within minutes of getting home, and never even got the chance to see the stats. Have to do it again. My impression from what I can remember of the readouts is that these loads will make major PF 99% of the time, if not every time (assuming the bullets all actually weigh 255 gr or that velocity and mass will compensate for one another).

I was impressed with the Competition Electronics ProChrono Digital...direct sunlight was coming it at quite an angle, yet the diffusers seemed to do their job well. Not sure what I did to accidentally delete the only string in memory, when I could swear I hit 'Delete String' when (empty) String 2 was selected.

Edited by Bongo Boy, 05 September 2009 - 05:39 PM.

IDPA A35633
USPSA A64336


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#23 Duane Thomas

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Posted 09 September 2009 - 09:00 PM

Kirk,

SWEET. Sounds like you've got it all debugged. I'll be curious to learn the results of your next chrono session, and what PF and SD you get from the 3.0-grain load out of a P220. If your velocities are in the range you remember, I'd say you should have no problem making Major.

BTW, as you've probably already figured out, stretching an over-compressed spring to "return it to its original configuration"....not a good way to go. This just overstresses an already overstressed part, and the first time you fire the gun it's probably back to its way too short condition. NOT a happenin' thing.

Yes, Clays plus lead bullets is a notoriously smoky combo. Ah well..... :lol:

Duane
Pride and fear are emotions, which hope for an outcome. Outcomes take your attention from the present, where the shooting happens, to the future. It is totally impossible to do anything in the future, because it hasn't happened yet. The key to shooting your best is to be present as the witness of the shooting. Do not judge, do not give yourself anything to live up to. We can only shoot as well as we have trained ourselves to shoot. To try to shoot only induces stress. Be content with your current ability. And accumulate practice to improve that ability. Consolidate, build strength where you feel weakness. We cannot raise our ability until we accept our current limitations. Practice dissolves limitations. Matches simply define where the current limits exist. The game of shooting is all about redefining our limits.
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Amateurs do it til they get it right. Professionals do it til they can't get it wrong.

"It's not the will to win that matters - everyone has that. It's the will to prepare to win that matters."
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#24 Harmon

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Posted 20 September 2009 - 12:54 PM

i had better results with WST with data from the laser cast manual adjusted to make major instead of 200pf.
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#25 Bongo Boy

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Posted 26 September 2009 - 01:07 PM

Okay, data is now in. This is for about 100 rounds fired:

3.0 gr Clays
674 High
613 Low
647 Average
61 Extreme Spread
12 Std Dev
164,985 Average PF

Not sure how you could get the average any closer than that. Of course, given the standard deviation size of 12, it's way TOO close, and I'll have to load up just a tad higher. I assume I won't be able to do anything about the sigma...I'm using a variety of leads for one thing, and I know bullet weight varies by 10 gr, at least.

Like I mentioned over in the 'Lee Factory Crimp Die' thread, this sub-forum, a good number of these rounds left the bullets laying on the ground around the target (stapled to a heavy oak pallet), and some of the bullets were actually in front of the target. :) I'm guessing they didn't all penetrate the pallet, and were stuck there until subsequent shots knocked 'em out on the ground. Probably not your best PD rounds.

My loads with 3.2 gr Clays produced the following string, again, for about 100 rds fired:

3.2 gr Clays
708 High
628 Low
681 Average
80 Extreme Spread
15 Std Dev
173,763 Average PF
IDPA A35633
USPSA A64336


National Mill Dog Rescue www.milldogrescue.org




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